Use your phone to crunch cancer problems to help complete cancer research faster

[mescalin]

DreamLab is a multi-awarding winning Iphone and Android app that harnesses the processing power of smartphones to crunch cancer problems to help complete research faster.

 

Developed by Vodafone Foundation in partnership with the Garvan Institute of Medical Research, DreamLab is an easy way to make a real difference. It’s so simple you can do it with your eyes closed.

 

https://www.garvan.org.au/support-us/dreamlab/

 

 

[Polyvalent]

Folding data on my phone while I sleep, while it's plugged in?  That sounds like a thermal nightmare for my phone.  Surely they've taken this into account...

[Enderman]

That's a great way to decrease the lifespan of your device to make like 0.00001% the performance that an ASIC could do.

[Letgomyleghoe]

sound like im gonna have a fireball sitting next to my bed... my phones pretty good at cooling but 100% cpu usage all night with the charger on... might put a 120mm fan on top of it...

[mescalin]

5 minutes ago, Enderman said:

That's a great way to decrease the lifespan of your device to make like 0.00001% the performance that an ASIC could do.

ASIC chips can't fold. They are designed for mining and they cant be used for advanced calculations.

 

My Iphone xs max doesn't get too hot. Many ppl use sleep trackers and it's smth like that. It helps to cure the cancer it's more important than our phones I guess. My phone gets much hotter when I play games, this app is not off the limits. Probably its tuned to stay cool and safe.

[GoldenLag]

18 minutes ago, mescalin said:

ASIC chips can't fold. They are designed for mining and they cant be used for advanced calculations.

Depends on the ASIC and what you define as "advanced". 

 

ASICs do some calculations really well.

 

Calculators use ASICs these days. And those can arguable do some advanced calculations. 

 

20 minutes ago, mescalin said:

My Iphone xs max doesn't get too hot.

Steel body, the CPU itself is overheating and the steel body is just worse at removing heat than a aluminium one.

[minibois]

How does this compare to folding@hkme, rosetta@hkme, etc. on a videocard?

[Enderman]

31 minutes ago, mescalin said:

ASIC chips can't fold. They are designed for mining and they cant be used for advanced calculations.

I don't think you understand what an ASIC is, you might want to look it up.

An ASIC can be made for any task.

One of those things they can be designed for is mining.

 

Obviously you would not use a mining ASIC for doing protein synthethis or any medical application, you would design a different ASIC for that.

[Metallus97]

YESSS! I posted this a few weeks back also and have completed like a few tausend work units already with my phones and tablet.

 

1 hour ago, scuff gang said:

sound like im gonna have a fireball sitting next to my bed... my phones pretty good at cooling but 100% cpu usage all night with the charger on... might put a 120mm fan on top of it...

2 hours ago, Polyvalent said:

Folding data on my phone while I sleep, while it's plugged in?  That sounds like a thermal nightmare for my phone.  Surely they've taken this into account...

 

Everyone complaining about decreased lifespan of the phones: Not really. I mean most of us have them plugged over night any way. Modern phones are also ok with this and have good battery management. For example my iPhone does charge up to 80% and then cycles around 80-70. It “learns” when i typically get up in the morning and before that goes to 100%.

 

 

About DreamLab itself: It has very strict management build in that ceeps thermals in check. It doesn’t use your CPU 100% all the time. My iPhone X, iPad Pro and my brothers S10 dont get warm by letting dreamlab run over night, while plugged in. I even have my old iPhone 7 (wich I keep as a backup phone for my family and friends) running 24/7 dreamlab. No problem so far and only slight degradation in battery life!

 

About performance: sure f@H /Rosetta is more powerful BUUUT the projects on Dreamlab are optimized with being run on ARM phones in mind. Therefore its fine. This is all about how you calculate to get to know what. The tasks done by F@H and Rosetta are even very different. Allso keep in mind that modern phone/tablet CPUs (especially apples A13) are pretty much faster than CPUs form a few years back.

 

1 hour ago, mescalin said:

 

My Iphone xs max doesn't get too hot. Many ppl use sleep trackers and it's smth like that. It helps to cure the cancer it's more important than our phones I guess. My phone gets much hotter when I play games, this app is not off the limits. Probably its tuned to stay cool and safe.

 

It uses more power than a sleep tracker, but you are 100% correct about it being very very good optimized and limitiert to not make your phone get warm.

 

I suggest annyone to try it for one night and see how the thermals develop.

 

 

[Polyvalent]

9 minutes ago, Metallus97 said:

About performance: sure f@H /Rosetta is more powerful BUUUT the projects on Dreamlab are optimized with being run on ARM phones in mind. Therefore its fine. This is all about how you calculate to get to know what. The tasks done by F@H and Rosetta are even very different. Allso keep in mind that modern phone/tablet CPUs (especially apples A13) are pretty much faster than CPUs form a few years back.

I think I'll just let my PC fold at night while my cheap samsung chills out on my nightstand. I'll let you guys with actually decent mobile hardware make use of it.

 

As I said, surely they've taken thermals into account.  I can't imagine they'd make a fireball app without checking first

[Metallus97]

Just now, Polyvalent said:

I think I'll just let my PC fold at night while my cheap samsung chills out on my nightstand. I'll let you guys with actually decent mobile hardware make use of it.

 

As I said, surely they've taken thermals into account.  I can't imagine they'd make a fireball app without checking first

There once was a “handwarmer app” lol... simply pegged CPU+GPU at 100% so yehhhha...THATS gonna hurt your phone.

 

But ok would actually be interesting to see phone power/performance metrics for Dreamlab

[Polyvalent]

1 minute ago, Metallus97 said:

There once was a “handwarmer app” lol... simply pegged CPU+GPU at 100% so yehhhha...THATS gonna hurt your phone.

LOL

 

Why use Hot Hands when you can just download the free app??

[RollinLower]

i wonder how efficient this would be when compared to F@H or BOINC on the desktop. i suppose the WU's will be optimized for low power devices, tough would that mean that there are just going to be much more, much smaller WU's?

how would this work exactly?

[Metallus97]

1 hour ago, RollinLower said:

i wonder how efficient this would be when compared to F@H or BOINC on the desktop. i suppose the WU's will be optimized for low power devices, tough would that mean that there are just going to be much more, much smaller WU's?

how would this work exactly?

Like that  

Much smaller and optimized for the ARM instruction stack. also form a mathematical point of view (i studied this shiit xD) you can approach finding proteins and simulating them on very different manners with very different needs of computing power/time.

 

For a raw TFLOPs comparison the big and GPU using projects Winn for sure. But this is all about what you want to calculate and how you do it and how good that is optimized for the HW youre intending to run on

[mescalin]

2 hours ago, Enderman said:

I don't think you understand what an ASIC is, you might want to look it up.

An ASIC can be made for any task.

One of those things they can be designed for is mining.

 

Obviously you would not use a mining ASIC for doing protein synthethis or any medical application, you would design a different ASIC for that.

ASIC can't fold. There isn't any project using ASICs. ASIC are used for repetitive calculations of same kind. CPU's can't be used on GPU tasks and it's smilar for ASICS. Thats the info shared by many labs not my idea. 

2 hours ago, minibois said:

How does this compare to folding@hkme, rosetta@hkme, etc. on a videocard?

All of them are different projects and searching for different answers. I'll try to explain in the simplest form.

 

folding@home: Is a research for step by step protein folding. If we think a protein as a building, folding@home tries to explain how it's built and at what step misfolding occurs to cause diseases. And what can be done to fix those misfolding errors while folding. Great project but it needs so much more computational power than rosetta to find drug candidates.

 

rosetta@home: Is looking for final forms of proteins and inventing new proteins. Instead of studying the whole folding process it calculates the final shape of a protein. Instead of simulating the construction of a bulding, it calculates the final shape of the building. This allows rosetta to be much much faster than folding@home in terms of drug discovery and rosetta commons is widely used by drug discovery efforts all around the world. 

 

dreamlab: I'm new to this project but it seems it's not actually folding proteins. It's about genome and cancer relations. Which is an another way to cure cancer and many other problems. If those genomes are discovered we can fix those dna parts with CRISPR tech. Which requires other folding projects efforts.

 

In conclusion all those projects complement each other. They are all opening some different mysterious parts of  map which will lead to heal many diseases and even sto stop aging.

[Metallus97]

1 minute ago, mescalin said:

ASIC can't fold. There isn't any project using ASICs. ASIC are used for repetitive calculations of same kind. CPU's can't be used on GPU tasks and it's smilar for ASICS. Thats the info shared by many labs not my idea. 

All of them are different projects and searching for different answers. I'll try to explain in the simplest form.

 

folding@home: Is a research for step by step protein folding. If we think a protein as a building, folding@home tries to explain how it's built and at what step misfolding occurs to cause diseases. And what can be done to fix those misfolding errors while folding. Great project but it needs so much more computational power than rosetta to find drug candidates.

 

rosetta@home: Is looking for final forms of proteins and inventing new proteins. Instead of studying the whole folding process it calculates the final shape of a protein. Instead of simulating the construction of a bulding, it calculates the final shape of the building. This allows rosetta to be much much faster than folding@home in terms of drug discovery and rosetta commons is widely used by drug discovery efforts all around the world. 

 

dreamlab: I'm new to this project but it seems it's not actually folding proteins. It's about genome and cancer relations. Which is an another way to cure cancer and many other problems. If those genomes are discovered we can fix those dna parts with CRISPR tech. Which requires other folding projects efforts.

 

In conclusion all those projects complement each other. They are all opening some different mysterious parts of  map which will lead to heal many diseases and even sto stop aging.

In general yes to your explanation, but two points that are somewhat misrepresented:

 

1. One cloud build the ASIC and software to to folding or a different one for tthe task that Dreamlab does. But due to ASICS being so suuuper specified for one type of workload that could be made hella fast but even with different projects inside F@H,Rosetta or Dreamlab it could be difficult to make an ASIC that can do all of them. Well close to impossible.

That and the cost associated with this is why there are no ASICS for folding. It’s MUCH MUCH more efficient and better overall to use what you already have. And that are x86/64 CPUS GPUs and ARM Phones.

 

2. Stop aging: Yes but with a super super ultra huge MAYBE and WAAAY in the future. That’s defenetly not even close to the scope of thos projects. And hey... Idd not want to live like 500yrs  

 

[mescalin]

3 minutes ago, Metallus97 said:

In general yes to your explanation, but two points that are somewhat misrepresented:

 

1. One cloud build the ASIC and software to to folding or a different one for tthe task that Dreamlab does. But due to ASICS being so suuuper specified for one type of workload that could be made hella fast but even with different projects inside F@H,Rosetta or Dreamlab it could be difficult to make an ASIC that can do all of them. Well close to impossible.

That and the cost associated with this is why there are no ASICS for folding. It’s MUCH MUCH more efficient and better overall to use what you already have. And that are x86/64 CPUS GPUs and ARM Phones.

 

2. Stop aging: Yes but with a super super ultra huge MAYBE and WAAAY in the future. That’s defenetly not even close to the scope of thos projects. And hey... Idd not want to live like 500yrs  

 

Actually there is exciting news about aging too. There are some companies like Samumed, their drugs are on clinical trials. They are trying to regenerate tissues and even whole organs. Biotech is advancing too fast in the las several years. CRISPR is discovered in 2013, just 6 years ago. There are many more advancements. I belive you can live for 500years if you can stay alive for the next 20 years

[Metallus97]

2 minutes ago, mescalin said:

Actually there is exciting news about aging too. There are some companies like Samumed, their drugs are on clinical trials. They are trying to regenerate tissues and even whole organs. Biotech is advancing too fast in the las several years. CRISPR is discovered in 2013, just 6 years ago. There are many more advancements. I belive you can live for 500years if you can stay alive for the next 20 years

I also believe some day it will be possible. But in the next 20 years. Idd bet my car -> no

[mescalin]

2 minutes ago, Metallus97 said:

I also believe some day it will be possible. But in the next 20 years. Idd bet my car -> no

First color mobile phone in US was in 2001. 18 years later we are discussing about cancer research on our super complicated phones.

 

We solved human genome just in 2003, now we can edit it inside our body with a single injection. Lola and Nana were born last year, first geneticly modified healthy human babies. Those are magical times to be alive.. And probably good time to invest in biotech companies too..

 

 

 

 

 

[Metallus97]

13 minutes ago, mescalin said:

First color mobile phone in US was in 2001. 18 years later we are discussing about cancer research on our super complicated phones.

 

We solved human genome just in 2003, now we can edit it inside our body with a single injection. Lola and Nana were born last year, first geneticly modified healthy human babies. Those are magical times to be alive.. And probably good time to invest in biotech companies too..

 

 

 

 

 

I do invest in some stuf with bio engineering. BUUUUUT i think we should first point resources to curing rather than prolonging live 

[Enderman]

7 hours ago, mescalin said:

ASIC can't fold. There isn't any project using ASICs. ASIC are used for repetitive calculations of same kind. CPU's can't be used on GPU tasks and it's smilar for ASICS. Thats the info shared by many labs not my idea. 

1) Yes it can, an ASIC can be designed for pretty much any task, it is not just for mining. Obviously you can't use an ASIC designed for mining though.

 

2) Yes you can technically use a CPU to process graphics like a GPU. The only problem is that it's extremely slow since it has far fewer cores, and you can't output an image from something like HDMI or DP becuase the motherboard only connects those to pins for the iGPU. You would need to output over USB or serial, something the CPU does have full access to.

 

3) A GPU is just a type of ASIC designed for image processing. That's why it performs hundreds of times better than using a normal CPU.

 

4) Again, an ASIC can be designed for pretty much anything. Technically a CPU is a type of ASIC too, just lower performance and more generalized circuitry.

 

5) One example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_(computer)