*Rumour* Apple to start designing it's own batteries

[Blademaster91]

56 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

But there are easier and much cheaper ways to do that. It wouldn't make sense to invest the kind of money they would need to invest just to gain a bit more money from battery replacements. It could be a secondary effect, sure, but it no way would it make sense as a primary motivator.

 

This is Apple though, investing in batteries isn't much to them. Preventing repair isn't the primary reason but its also a cost saving measure to have their own battery factory rather than using another manufacturer.  And if Apple was so concerned with the cost they would partner with a company for R&D like Tesla, or as mentioned Samsung.

[mynameisjuan]

2 minutes ago, Commodus said:

You're purposefully ignoring what Apple has done in the past.

 

When Apple introduced the A4, its first custom chip, it wasn't that big a break from the reference ARM design.  It looked like not much more than a "part swap."  But then something happened: the more Apple iterated on its architecture, the more sharply it diverged from the common design and the more conspicuous the advantages became.  It's now to the point where the iPhone XS is likely to be faster than all 2019 Android phones in most respects.

 

I don't think Apple will "sprinkle magic dust."  But to assume that they won't or can't improve on their battery technology is just as wrong given historical evidence, and says more about your irrational hatred of Apple than anything.

I am not ignoring anything.

 

This isnt a chip that has head room to grow and still can. These are lipos that are being squeezed for every last life out of them. Its a technology that is being pushed by people who know much more than Apple and you can already begin to see them riding the line in terms of density and longevity. 

 

Can call me irrational all you want but I am not comparing two technologies on opposite spectrums on room for improvement.  

[CarlBar]

2 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

I am not ignoring anything.

 

This isnt a chip that has head room to grow and still can. These are lipos that are being squeezed for every last life out of them. Its a technology that is being pushed by people who know much more than Apple and you can already begin to see them riding the line in terms of density and longevity. 

 

Can call me irrational all you want but I am not comparing two technologies on opposite spectrums on room for improvement.  

 

Then how did Tesla get better batteries. Oh right. Your full of it.

[mynameisjuan]

27 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

Then how did Tesla get better batteries. Oh right. Your full of it.

Different tech. They are making use of graphite and silicon which phone manufactures are not.  

[79wjd]

8 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Different tech. They are making use of graphite and silicon which phone manufactures are not.  

Yet. The point is that you have no idea what they might have in mind, but blocking third party repairs has to be amongst the least likely reasons to fund an entire division and R&D. And if the point was to just save money on parts, then there are more expensive components they could focus on first.

[mynameisjuan]

19 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

Yet. The point is that you have no idea what they might have in mind, but blocking third party repairs has to be amongst the least likely reasons to fund an entire division and R&D. And if the point was to just save money on parts, then there are more expensive components they could focus on first.

I am not the one saying they are doing to prevent 3rd party repairs. I am just saying its not going to be this magical holy shit its now 10x better because Apple did it. They wont catch up for a few years minimum. 

[Drak3]

That'd be alot of money to make things .1mm thinner.

 

 

 

Kappa.

[Syntaxvgm]

I mean battery life has long been one of apple's biggest selling points for a lot of their devices, so as long as they don't end up as pocket bombs more power too them. I do have some worries though, like the whole redlining for benchmarks thing overdrawing the battery as it ages causing the slowdown patches is the kind of irresponsible shit with batteries you should avoid. 

[Umberto]

Another reason for Apples quest for total control is better control of the release cycle of their products. While I don't think battery technology moves that quickly, but their dependence on using intel for their CPUs has caused issues in the past. 

[Thaldor]

4 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

This is Apple though, investing in batteries isn't much to them. Preventing repair isn't the primary reason but its also a cost saving measure to have their own battery factory rather than using another manufacturer.  And if Apple was so concerned with the cost they would partner with a company for R&D like Tesla, or as mentioned Samsung.

This is pretty much what I think. It's sum of many things rather than one or two mainly. Apple isn't going to develope any new battery in years, just like Tesla didn't acctually invent new battery, they just build a factory that can produce high-grade NMC and NCA (being in the markets since around 1999) batteries almost the same as Sony, Samsung, LG, Panasonic and Sanyo produces and those are very much the same chemistry. The major thing about Teslas batteries was actually that Tesla started to use NCA batteries in cars instead of LTO or the most common lead-acid batteries (NMC cells Tesla uses in the Powerwall and Powerpack) and they needed a lot of them (Tesla S and X models use 18650-cells while Model 3 uses 21700-cells). So, sorry guys, Tesla didn't create a new battery tech that is going to change the world, they just started to produce pretty common (although apparently very high-grade) battery cells out of their need, mainly because Sony, Samsung, LG, Panasonic and Sanyo probably couldn't produce (along with their own production including quite a range of different chemistries, qualities and sizes) as much as high-grade batteries as Tesla would have needed without as huge investments as Tesla used to start manufacturing their own batteries for their own use.

 

Probably Apple is doing the same. Cutting costs and minimizing money flow to the competitors (as mentioned Sony, Samsung, LG, Panasonic and Sanyo are the biggest battery manufacturers; Tesla now too, but they only produce batteries for their own use; and out of those 4 are competitors for Apple in one or few market areas). They can also drop one variable away from their QA, because they can directly control how good cells they produce without care if the manufacturer decides to F up and send a shipment of worse cells than was ordered which could lead to headaches. That they can then also almost completely control the sales of cells fitting to their products is bonus (even if it's quite a huge bonus considering how much more expensive it is to get your battery changed in Apple store than get it done by third party), but I don't think it's a very major reason because already gluing the batteries in is quite a dick move and with 100% possibility whatever they come up with, someone in China will bootleg it one way or another.

[captain_to_fire]

5 hours ago, hiitswilliam said:

Hm. What I would be really interested in would be if they made their own processor for the Macbooks or even iMacs.

They're doing it now...sort of with the T2 coprocessors in the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro/Air. T2 handles the SSD controller, storage encryption, secure boot, and Touch ID authentication.

[Trik'Stari]

RIP third party shops doing battery replacements.

 

And as for Apple users, enjoy buying a new device every time you need a new battery.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

They're doing it now...sort of with the T2 coprocessors in the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro/Air. T2 handles the SSD controller, storage encryption, secure boot, and Touch ID authentication.

I mean, sort of to replace the i5 or i7. It would be neat to see that as it could probably also help apple incorporate more MacOS features into an iPad and vice versa, since they would already have to figure out how to let MacOS apps take advantage of their processor. I guess by the time we see a CPU made by apple for computers, they'll have closed off every possible opening to their products that would let you get inside.

[Belgarathian]

On 1/26/2019 at 4:31 PM, Trik'Stari said:

RIP third party shops doing battery replacements.

 

And as for Apple users, enjoy buying a new device every time you need a new battery.

The battery replacements that I've had in the past for my Apple devices (macbooks, iPhones) have been expensive, but not throw the device away and start again bad. I think $200 for a macbook and $120 for the iPhone? Give the device another 2-3 years of use (800-1000 cycles).

[Trik'Stari]

6 hours ago, Belgarathian said:

The battery replacements that I've had in the past for my Apple devices (macbooks, iPhones) have been expensive, but not throw the device away and start again bad. I think $200 for a macbook and $120 for the iPhone? Give the device another 2-3 years of use (800-1000 cycles).

I'm mainly going on the recent report of "replace this entire laptop over 1 bent pin". Although that could be a failure on the part of the repair "technician" (being generous using that word).

 

Still, I dislike the idea of no one else being able to make batteries for these things. Dell allows 3rd party manufacture of parts, I'm sure Lenovo and HP do as well (although cannot directly confirm they do, just Dell)

[Belgarathian]

20 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

I'm mainly going on the recent report of "replace this entire laptop over 1 bent pin". Although that could be a failure on the part of the repair "technician" (being generous using that word).

 

Still, I dislike the idea of no one else being able to make batteries for these things. Dell allows 3rd party manufacture of parts, I'm sure Lenovo and HP do as well (although cannot directly confirm they do, just Dell)

That was the news company that went to Louis Rossman, wasn't it?

 

Yeah, that was particularly bad... These days though they run by check sheets much like cars do. If symptom X is present, replace component Y in its entirety. I guess their line of thought is that it's easier to do and more reliable than a repair. Even Louis Rossman admitted that it will eventually fail again (due to the cable fatiguring I think) and there is no way to know if it's tomorrow or in 3 years. That said his fix was a lot cheaper.

[Thaldor]

7 hours ago, Belgarathian said:

That was the news company that went to Louis Rossman, wasn't it?

 

Yeah, that was particularly bad... These days though they run by check sheets much like cars do. If symptom X is present, replace component Y in its entirety. I guess their line of thought is that it's easier to do and more reliable than a repair. Even Louis Rossman admitted that it will eventually fail again (due to the cable fatiguring I think) and there is no way to know if it's tomorrow or in 3 years. That said his fix was a lot cheaper.

Apple does it probably 95% for money. Just think how much money Apple does from "repairs" when it charges that ~700$€ + 100$€ for work from everything scaling from a bit of crap on MB to fried CPU (and trust me, laptop failing from too much crap inside it is way more common than fried CPUs). Apple also refuses any repairs if you are not willing to repair all "faults" they find which is usually 50/50 if they find liquid damage and need to change your MB (those tabs Apple uses are jokes, they could trigger from you looking at them wrong way and if you live in a small appartment and take a warm shower with the bathroom door open, your every iDevice has just been liquid damaged), like I'm currenty waiting 100% bootleg battery for my project MBA because AAPS refused to chage it's battery because it has a liquid damage and I have opened it to "repair" the said liquid damage (which was corrosion or just shit in connector and drier than Sahara thermal paste), F'ing 1500€ so they can change everything when the machine only needs 40-60$€ costing battery.

 

Apples repair money crab is very much build from the fact that computers can fail from very tiny problems and it's actually quite rare to get soe really totaled ones. They always charge the ~700$€ for the MB no matter was it just a bend pin, one triggered liquid indicator or a fried CPU, then they fix that problem so they get a refurbished MB to be placed in another mac that has failed MB. The thing is the customer always pays that ~700$€ for a new MB even if they would get refurbished one which repair costed Apple way less than making a new one (moatly probably just less than hour of work).