UPDATED* AMD announces the Radeon VII - but it's $699 | Nvidia calls it "Lousy"

[Stefan Payne]

5 hours ago, Lathlaer said:

, I think people kind of hoped that they will be this mythic savior in GPU department as well who offers same or better performance for 50% of the price. 

NAVI will deliver that with what we know right now.

With HBM2 they can't deliver that because HBM2 is that expensive.

[Fasauceome]

38 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

NAVI will deliver that with what we know right now.

"With what we know right now" which is nothing. The rumors about gtx 1080 ti performance at the $250 mark have all been thoroughly debunked, I highly doubt the RX 580 successor will be not only faster but also only cost $100. Navi is gonna be great but that's asking way too much.

[Lathlaer]

2 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

With what we know right now" which is nothing. The rumors about gtx 1080 ti performance at the $250 mark have all been thoroughly debunked, I highly doubt the RX 580 successor will be not only faster but also only cost $100. Navi is gonna be great but that's asking way too much.

But I'm sure we will get a plausible explanation if it does not deliver. It's like watching a long term weather forecast: "It will be sunny for the next two weeks unless something changes, then it will rain".

[cj09beira]

1 hour ago, fasauceome said:

"With what we know right now" which is nothing. The rumors about gtx 1080 ti performance at the $250 mark have all been thoroughly debunked, I highly doubt the RX 580 successor will be not only faster but also only cost $100. Navi is gonna be great but that's asking way too much.

no the rumors were RTX 2070 level performance, and debunked how?

[Fasauceome]

1 minute ago, cj09beira said:

no the rumors were RTX 2070 level performance, and debunked how?

I distinctly remember hearing rumors about a graphics card to match the high end Nvidia cards, and that the price would be half across the board for every competing unit. Those rumors have been debunked by Radeon VII costing $700.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, fasauceome said:

"With what we know right now" which is nothing. The rumors about gtx 1080 ti performance at the $250 mark have all been thoroughly debunked, I highly doubt the RX 580 successor will be not only faster but also only cost $100. Navi is gonna be great but that's asking way too much.

Have a source for that rumor? That's never been in the rumor mill, so I'd be curious to see who was even speculating it was going to be.

[cj09beira]

17 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

I distinctly remember hearing rumors about a graphics card to match the high end Nvidia cards, and that the price would be half across the board for every competing unit. Those rumors have been debunked by Radeon VII costing $700.

lol, those rumors are about navi, pretty sure vega is not navi.

something is only debunked if something goes against it. another card also launching doesn't qualify

[Fasauceome]

6 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Have a source for that rumor? That's never been in the rumor mill, so I'd be curious to see who was even speculating it was going to be.

Can't find where I first saw it, it's a video of a guy reading an article and discussing it. Probably wasn't a very common rumor then.

 

I did find this though, hilarious thumbnail and title

I didn't risk watching it for fear of losing brain cells

[Fasauceome]

3 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

lol, those rumors are about navi, pretty sure vega is not navi.

something is only debunked if something goes against it. another card also launching doesn't qualify

So is the rumor then that Navi is gonna replace the Radeon VII card that was announced at CES in like Q3 2019, but at half the cost?

[GoldenLag]

15 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

I distinctly remember hearing rumors about a graphics card to match the high end Nvidia cards, and that the price would be half across the board for every competing unit. Those rumors have been debunked by Radeon VII costing $700.

how has it been debunked by the release of the Radeon VII? i mean, half the cost of that thing is HBM2 (im guessing here, i dont have the component pricing of the Card)

 

last time i checked Navi was delayed due to issued found in "taping" process which would delay it at least a month or two. 

 

4 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Have a source for that rumor? That's never been in the rumor mill, so I'd be curious to see who was even speculating it was going to be.

the first rumour of this was quite a while ago (dont remember exactly when) with AMD "aiming" for 1080 like performance with Navi. 

 

Next was either Nvidia`s internal speculation of AMD products which i dont remember the details of. or it was some leak from AdoredTV with AMD putting the Navi as equivelent to the vega 64. btw both afaik originated from AdoredTV and his sources. 

 

i personally havent seen anyone putting the navi cards at or near 1080ti like performance. 

[cj09beira]

Just now, fasauceome said:

So is the rumor then that Navi is gonna replace the Radeon VII card that was announced at CES in like Q3 2019, but at half the cost?

navi should slot right below it, vega is rx 2080 level of performance, navi should be around rx 2070 (there will be other cards below tht too)

[GoldenLag]

Just now, fasauceome said:

So is the rumor then that Navi is gonna replace the Radeon VII card that was announced at CES in like Q3 2019, but at half the cost?

no the current belief based on current rumours was that Radeon 7 was a "placeholder" untill Navi was ready. since keeping themselves irrelevant for too long would be harmful for their branding. 

 

Navi is a Polaris Replacement and will based on personal specualtion be the basis of many mobile parts like Vega has been

[Fasauceome]

Just now, cj09beira said:

navi should slot right below it, vega is rx 2080 level of performance, navi should be around rx 2070 (there will be other cards below tht too)

If they do a repeat of Vega, then maybe 64CU card to try to compete with the 2080 ti? But then of course, it was a while back that Navi was touted as the ultimate GPU, which is the rumor I'm addressing. I think it makes a lot of sense that Navi replaces polaris as the mid range but I heard people saying it was gonna usurp the highest end Nvidia cards.

[GoldenLag]

8 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

But then of course, it was a while back that Navi was touted as the ultimate GPU, which is the rumor I'm addressing.

that was mostly in relation to people thinking Navi was going to be a brand new modular Macroarchitecture. which then got shutdown by AMD themselves saying it was a monolithic die. 

 

also that is quite a while ago iirc. late 2017? after Vega launched. because it got debunked q2 2018 iirc

 

10 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

If they do a repeat of Vega, then maybe 64CU card to try to compete with the 2080 ti?

we both know AMD has no interest in doing so. even if offering a supirior price they would gain nothing by doing so other than hurting their own margings and spending money on creating and marketing a new product. also bandwidth. we wont be seing a 512 bit memmory bus with GDDR6. mostly because its almost impossible to do so

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, fasauceome said:

"With what we know right now" which is nothing. The rumors about gtx 1080 ti performance at the $250 mark have all been thoroughly debunked, I highly doubt the RX 580 successor will be not only faster but also only cost $100. Navi is gonna be great but that's asking way too much.

But you can be assured NAVI will deliver a GTX 1080 performance level for same price Polaris was released initially, so 350 sweet spot. By the time NAVI comes out, that will be an expected performance level from a mid range.

[Nocte]

2 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

we wont be seing a 512 bit memmory bus with GDDR6. mostly because its almost impossible to do so

Just need to put modules literally all around the GPU! /s

It would be possible if they added more PCB layers, but yeah, that means it's almost impossible.

 

 

What do you guys think are the chances of a liquid cooled Radeon VII like the Vega 64 that were released?

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, Nocte said:

It would be possible if they added more PCB layers, but yeah, that means it's almost impossible.

Actually. Even then its more or less impossible with GDDR6 has you are very limited in terms of placelent of the modules. Also even then it increases complexity and cost. 

 

3 minutes ago, Nocte said:

What do you guys think are the chances of a liquid cooled Radeon VII like the Vega 64 that were released?

Low at best. Maybe as an addition later on for 1000$ if they have leftover dies. Even then its highly unlikely

[Fasauceome]

8 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

But you can be assured

Assured by what exactly?

 

Also, which polaris card launched at $350?

[RejZoR]

4 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

Assured by what exactly?

 

Also, which polaris card launched at $350?

Typo. I meant 250. Assured because they can't make a 4th iteration of what Polaris offered as a performance bump with RX590. And at that point, they'll already be at GTX 1080 levels. Besides, NVIDIA dictated "mid range" is RTX 2060 which is generally GTX 1080 performance level. So, there you have it. I think with NAVI they are aiming at successful mid range like Polaris was. And they won't have to deal with stupid miners this time...

[GoldenLag]

28 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

Assured by what exactly?

 

Also, which polaris card launched at $350?

Im addition to the point above. The use of it in Consoles assures it will be cheaper than a high end card while offering performance some significant margin above the rx 580. 

[cj09beira]

2 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

Im addition to the point above. The use of it in Consoles assures it will be cheaper than a high end card while offering performance some significant margin above the rx 580. 

the same architecture being used for the consoles doesn't affect the desktop gpus at all, the only affect is higher R&D for the base architecture, it has no affect on the specs.

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

But you can be assured NAVI will deliver a GTX 1080 performance level for same price Polaris was released initially, so 350 sweet spot. By the time NAVI comes out, that will be an expected performance level from a mid range.

depends on when nvidea will release a 7nm gpu for that sector, the rtx 2060 is too expensive to compete, dont know how the 1660 fits into this though

[GoldenLag]

5 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

the same architecture being used for the consoles doesn't affect the desktop gpus at all, the only affect is higher R&D for the base architecture, it has no affect on the specs.

it does when you are dealing with a company that wants to maximize the yields as possible. there is quite a likelyhood they will decide to use the same dies multiple places. not saying this is a certainty, but minimizing the ammount of different dies they have to produce is a good strategy to increase ammount of usable dies and to lower costs. 

 

personal speculation i see them make 2 or 3 variants of Navi initially. one for smaller APUs and one larger for console, and desktop GPUs. i dont see a reason for them to make a seperate die for consoles.

[Jacket_spice]

well you think about it its barely better in gaming than the 2080 (in some games) at the same price, less hope for board partners to put a better shroud on it and it also (for all its worth) doesn't have ray tracing or less

[CarlBar]

3 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

how has it been debunked by the release of the Radeon VII? i mean, half the cost of that thing is HBM2 (im guessing here, i dont have the component pricing of the Card)

 

last time i checked Navi was delayed due to issued found in "taping" process which would delay it at least a month or two. 

 

the first rumour of this was quite a while ago (dont remember exactly when) with AMD "aiming" for 1080 like performance with Navi. 

 

Next was either Nvidia`s internal speculation of AMD products which i dont remember the details of. or it was some leak from AdoredTV with AMD putting the Navi as equivelent to the vega 64. btw both afaik originated from AdoredTV and his sources. 

 

i personally havent seen anyone putting the navi cards at or near 1080ti like performance. 

 

Actually Adored has talked about this, i can't remember for certain from memory if his performance talk was speculation or rumour on the relevant info. think it was well founded speculation though.

 

According to his leaks where getting Navi 10 and Navi 12 first, 12 will be the low end, 10 the mid range, with the 10 being the 1080 like performance. With a later releasing Navi 20 to occupy a higher performance bracket.

[mr moose]

12 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

A lot of the tech channels on youtube repeated the wccf and adored predictions, can't blame them though its easy clicks. Although AMD is often seen as the value brand, and the one that can undercut while still very competitive like Ryzen,which is why I thought the Radeon 7 should have been the cheaper competition.

I can, if they want to use adored as a source then they aren't worth shit as a source themselves.   But as you point out, easy clicks equals easy money and adored is good start if you want easy clicks.