Posted December 21, 2013 As a key part of a campaign to embed encryption software that it could crack into widely used computer products, the U.S. National Security Agency arranged a secret $10 million contract with RSA, one of the most influential firms in the computer security industry, Reuters has learned. Undisclosed until now was that RSA received $10 million in a deal that set the NSA formula as the preferred, or default, method for number generation in the BSafe software. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/20/us-usa-security-rsa-idUSBRE9BJ1C220131220 I wonder if this will cause any backlash. I'm sure it won't help their stock prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 21, 2013 never heard of RSA If your grave doesn't say "rest in peace" on it You are automatically drafted into the skeleton war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 21, 2013 never heard of RSA They make encryption software for home and commercial use, and manufacture those authentication dongles that most banks and companies with sensitive information make their customers and employees use for remote access/banking, which generate a semi-random number based on an algorithm. Intel i7 5820K (4.5 GHz) | MSI X99A MPower | 32 GB Kingston HyperX Fury 2666MHz | Asus RoG STRIX GTX 1080ti OC | Samsung 951 m.2 nVME 512GB | Crucial MX200 1000GB | Western Digital Caviar Black 2000GB | Noctua NH-D15 | Fractal Define R5 | Seasonic 860 Platinum | Logitech G910 | Sennheiser 599 | Blue Yeti | Logitech G502 Nikon D500 | Nikon 300mm f/4 PF | Nikon 200-500 f/5.6 | Nikon 50mm f/1.8 | Tamron 70-210 f/4 VCII | Sigma 10-20 f/3.5 | Nikon 17-55 f/2.8 | Tamron 90mm F2.8 SP Di VC USD Macro | Neewer 750II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 21, 2013 My whole life I have had a feeling that there is no such things as "your the only one that knows your pin" usually because when you push the numbers on a machine the machine has to do something with the information. I have always told myself that I am just being paranoid and it is all safe and secure. but the more these reports come out the more I think those delusional people with tin foil hats spruking conspiracy theory might not be the ones who are crazy. Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge. Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 21, 2013 No surprises here. Moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 21, 2013 My whole life I have had a feeling that there is no such things as "your the only one that knows your pin" usually because when you push the numbers on a machine the machine has to do something with the information. I have always told myself that I am just being paranoid and it is all safe and secure. but the more these reports come out the more I think those delusional people with tin foil hats spruking conspiracy theory might not be the ones who are crazy. Yeah, think about it this way: would you use a 4 digit number as the password for your Amazon account? Intel i7 5820K (4.5 GHz) | MSI X99A MPower | 32 GB Kingston HyperX Fury 2666MHz | Asus RoG STRIX GTX 1080ti OC | Samsung 951 m.2 nVME 512GB | Crucial MX200 1000GB | Western Digital Caviar Black 2000GB | Noctua NH-D15 | Fractal Define R5 | Seasonic 860 Platinum | Logitech G910 | Sennheiser 599 | Blue Yeti | Logitech G502 Nikon D500 | Nikon 300mm f/4 PF | Nikon 200-500 f/5.6 | Nikon 50mm f/1.8 | Tamron 70-210 f/4 VCII | Sigma 10-20 f/3.5 | Nikon 17-55 f/2.8 | Tamron 90mm F2.8 SP Di VC USD Macro | Neewer 750II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 21, 2013 I dare someone to keep saying Snowden is a traitor for exposing even more infringement on your individual liberties. Washington DC and soulless corporations that take bribery money, those are your real traitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 21, 2013 Yeah, think about it this way: would you use a 4 digit number as the password for your Amazon account? Oh bother. Just going to change my password. Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge. Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 21, 2013 never heard of RSA RSA is the most popular asymmetrical encryption standard right now. LinusTechTips uses RSA-2048. Google, Facebook, Amazon, lots of encryption software, most SSH connections, Steam, the list goes on. All of them uses RSA. I haven't read the whole article, but isn't this the same backdoor we already knew existed? So the news here is not that Dual_EC_DRBG is unsecure, but that the developers behind RSA was paid to add it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 21, 2013 RSA is the most popular asymmetrical encryption standard right now. LinusTechTips uses RSA-2048. Google, Facebook, Amazon, lots of encryption software, most SSH connections, Steam, the list goes on. All of them uses RSA. I haven't read the whole article, but isn't this the same backdoor we already knew existed? So the news here is not that Dual_EC_DRBG is unsecure, but that the developers behind RSA was paid to add it? no no no wait u have the RSA encryption which first published in 1977 at MIT and never changed + as i know u cant change an crypto algorithm after its published because it will be something completely different . i havnt heard on any algorithm that has been updated then u have the RSA security firm which was founded in 1982 which has nothing to do with the RSA encryption those were the people that were paid off basically they added a crappy broken random number generator which was spotted in 2006-2007 If your grave doesn't say "rest in peace" on it You are automatically drafted into the skeleton war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 21, 2013 no no no wait u have the RSA encryption which first published in 1977 at MIT and never changed + as i know u cant change an crypto algorithm after its published because it will be something completely different . i havnt heard on any algorithm that has been updated then u have the RSA security firm which was founded in 1982 which has nothing to do with the RSA encryption those were the people that were paid off basically they added a crappy broken random number generator which was spotted in 2006-2007 RSA (the company) are the same people that made the RSA encryption standard (they formed the company after they made the RSA algorithm though). The backdoor was found in Dual_EC_DRBG and RSA (the company) was paid to use Dual_EC_DRBG as the default number generator in their implementation of RSA (the algorithm). Luckily for us, it seems like not many other companies have implemented that number generator because it's really slow and was already known of not producing very random numbers, but it shows that you can't trust RSA (the company). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 21, 2013 RSA (the company) are the same people that made the RSA encryption standard (they formed the company after they made the RSA algorithm though). The backdoor was found in Dual_EC_DRBG and RSA (the company) was paid to use Dual_EC_DRBG as the default number generator in their implementation of RSA (the algorithm). Luckily for us, it seems like not many other companies have implemented that number generator because it's really slow and was already known of not producing very random numbers, but it shows that you can't trust RSA (the company). how did i miss that /facepalm im on a diet right now forgive me If your grave doesn't say "rest in peace" on it You are automatically drafted into the skeleton war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 22, 2013 Author RSA is the most popular asymmetrical encryption standard right now. LinusTechTips uses RSA-2048. Google, Facebook, Amazon, lots of encryption software, most SSH connections, Steam, the list goes on. All of them uses RSA. I haven't read the whole article, but isn't this the same backdoor we already knew existed? So the news here is not that Dual_EC_DRBG is unsecure, but that the developers behind RSA was paid to add it? Correct it's been known that Dual_EC_DRBG contained a backdoor. The news here is that they actually took money in order to implement it as the default random number generator. Which begs the question could this lead to lawsuits against RSA? I'm sure they advertised the product as being secure. Which we can now see was a totally false claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 22, 2013 I dare someone to keep saying Snowden is a traitor for exposing even more infringement on your individual liberties. Washington DC and soulless corporations that take bribery money, those are your real traitors. Hmmm, let me take up this argument. *Gained a job under false pretenses. Check. *Hacked classified files. Check. *Distributed classified files to unauthorized persons. Check. *Distributed classified information to unauthorized persons. Check. *Distributed classified files to foreign nationals. Check. *Distributed classified information to foreign nationals. Check. *Willfully divulged classified information and data that pertained to foreign intelligence to foreign nationals. Check. *Willfully and knowingly violated 18 USC § 798. Check. *Fled to avoid prosecution. Check. *Quiet on spying of Russian citizens by Russian Government. Check. **Just a partial list So, I'll say proudly he is a traitor (Research some laws and what Snowden could have done to be a whistleblower before making remarks like that. It shows pretty piss poor research if you ask me), and I'll also raise you that he is also a narcissist, a coward, and a common criminal. See while you have "I dare someone", I actually have factual information I can keep quoting all day long, and in fact have before. Just no one cares so much about it. So, are you suggesting it is okay to commit some pretty serious felonies, when Snowden could have followed a path that would still have shed light on the issue without putting himself in serious trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 22, 2013 I roll with sigs off so I have no idea what you're advertising. This is NOT the signature you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 23, 2013 I think the biggest point about the snowden not following the whistleblowing "protocol" is that other people did try to follow it and were ousted and they received zero protection. Intel 4670K /w TT water 2.0 performer, GTX 1070FE, Gigabyte Z87X-DH3, Corsair HX750, 16GB Mushkin 1333mhz, Fractal R4 Windowed, Varmilo mint TKL, Logitech m310, HP Pavilion 23bw, Logitech 2.1 Speakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 23, 2013 I think the biggest point about the snowden not following the whistleblowing "protocol" is that other people did try to follow it and were ousted and they received zero protection. This is the one argument that keeps me thinking his intentions are a lot more humanitarian and democratic than some people would have us believe. It's not everyday you risk being permanently locked up without possibility of a fair trial for no foreseeable reward. Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge. Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 23, 2013 There is something seriously wrong with the way computer security and governments have gotten. With the talk of hardware that has had loopholes built in and software...it would be nice to see a government stop interfering (Not that I am saying the government approved it, as it seems the NSA has almost formed a secondary government that runs independently). Hmmm, let me take up this argument. *Gained a job under false pretenses. Check. *Hacked classified files. Check. *Distributed classified files to unauthorized persons. Check. *Distributed classified information to unauthorized persons. Check. *Distributed classified files to foreign nationals. Check. *Distributed classified information to foreign nationals. Check. *Willfully divulged classified information and data that pertained to foreign intelligence to foreign nationals. Check. *Willfully and knowingly violated 18 USC § 798. Check. *Fled to avoid prosecution. Check. *Quiet on spying of Russian citizens by Russian Government. Check. **Just a partial list So, I'll say proudly he is a traitor (Research some laws and what Snowden could have done to be a whistleblower before making remarks like that. It shows pretty piss poor research if you ask me), and I'll also raise you that he is also a narcissist, a coward, and a common criminal. See while you have "I dare someone", I actually have factual information I can keep quoting all day long, and in fact have before. Just no one cares so much about it. So, are you suggesting it is okay to commit some pretty serious felonies, when Snowden could have followed a path that would still have shed light on the issue without putting himself in serious trouble? As much as I disagree with what Snowden did (in the long haul, I actually thought his first leaks were alright) you are brushing over huge details. Just to explain a few tidbits on your information. *Gained a job under false pretenses. Never heard of this...I did hear they had gotten word he wasn't the most stable of guys and they still gave him access. If you have an article please post (I would actually like to read it...I just never read this anywhere yet) *Hacked classified files. No....if by hacked you mean accessed information he wasn't suppose to because they have shoddy security yes...but to me if you have a password and it is based on the honor system not to look at stuff you aren't suppose to then yea it is hacking. *Distributed classified files to unauthorized persons. Agreed (although if the classified files contain the government performing illegal actions does that make it right?) *Distributed classified information to unauthorized persons. (see above) *Distributed classified files to foreign nationals. (Public release....so yes) *Distributed classified information to foreign nationals. (See Above) *Willfully divulged classified information and data that pertained to foreign intelligence to foreign nationals. (Again public release) *Willfully and knowingly violated 18 USC § 798. The problem is the government is labelling so many things with "US security" you could claim that they were justified in putting a backdoor in every software and forcing the companies to stay silent (After all it is for the "security"). *Fled to avoid prosecution. (He could have faced the death penalty...wouldn't you run) *Quiet on spying of Russian citizens by Russian Government. (He doesn't have classified docs showing that) The problem is the information he has been releasing isn't anything new (I bet the other governments knew about the spying, and also do it against other countries). I even speculated and thought they did years ago...but every time I joked about it with friends I was turned into a "conspearousy nut". The fact is overall I think there has been little damage that Snowden has done politically, but in the minds of the people there has been a lot more doubt. The problem is if you become a whistleblower it can just be discredited...the fact he put his lifestyle on the line and was the frontface of the leaks it gave the documents more meaning. With all that said, I do believe Snowden went to way far (but my theory, not based on really many facts, is he ran originally hoping for asylum, and when the US clamped down he did what he did to survive) 0b10111010 10101101 11110000 00001101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted December 23, 2013 Hmmm, let me take up this argument. *Gained a job under false pretenses. Check. *Hacked classified files. Check. *Distributed classified files to unauthorized persons. Check. *Distributed classified information to unauthorized persons. Check. *Distributed classified files to foreign nationals. Check. *Distributed classified information to foreign nationals. Check. *Willfully divulged classified information and data that pertained to foreign intelligence to foreign nationals. Check. *Willfully and knowingly violated 18 USC § 798. Check. *Fled to avoid prosecution. Check. *Quiet on spying of Russian citizens by Russian Government. Check. **Just a partial list So, I'll say proudly he is a traitor (Research some laws and what Snowden could have done to be a whistleblower before making remarks like that. It shows pretty piss poor research if you ask me), and I'll also raise you that he is also a narcissist, a coward, and a common criminal. See while you have "I dare someone", I actually have factual information I can keep quoting all day long, and in fact have before. Just no one cares so much about it. So, are you suggesting it is okay to commit some pretty serious felonies, when Snowden could have followed a path that would still have shed light on the issue without putting himself in serious trouble? There is something seriously wrong with the way computer security and governments have gotten. With the talk of hardware that has had loopholes built in and software...it would be nice to see a government stop interfering (Not that I am saying the government approved it, as it seems the NSA has almost formed a secondary government that runs independently). As much as I disagree with what Snowden did (in the long haul, I actually thought his first leaks were alright) you are brushing over huge details. Just to explain a few tidbits on your information. *Gained a job under false pretenses. Never heard of this...I did hear they had gotten word he wasn't the most stable of guys and they still gave him access. If you have an article please post (I would actually like to read it...I just never read this anywhere yet) *Hacked classified files. No....if by hacked you mean accessed information he wasn't suppose to because they have shoddy security yes...but to me if you have a password and it is based on the honor system not to look at stuff you aren't suppose to then yea it is hacking. *Distributed classified files to unauthorized persons. Agreed (although if the classified files contain the government performing illegal actions does that make it right?) *Distributed classified information to unauthorized persons. (see above) *Distributed classified files to foreign nationals. (Public release....so yes) *Distributed classified information to foreign nationals. (See Above) *Willfully divulged classified information and data that pertained to foreign intelligence to foreign nationals. (Again public release) *Willfully and knowingly violated 18 USC § 798. The problem is the government is labelling so many things with "US security" you could claim that they were justified in putting a backdoor in every software and forcing the companies to stay silent (After all it is for the "security"). *Fled to avoid prosecution. (He could have faced the death penalty...wouldn't you run) *Quiet on spying of Russian citizens by Russian Government. (He doesn't have classified docs showing that) The problem is the information he has been releasing isn't anything new (I bet the other governments knew about the spying, and also do it against other countries). I even speculated and thought they did years ago...but every time I joked about it with friends I was turned into a "conspearousy nut". The fact is overall I think there has been little damage that Snowden has done politically, but in the minds of the people there has been a lot more doubt. The problem is if you become a whistleblower it can just be discredited...the fact he put his lifestyle on the line and was the frontface of the leaks it gave the documents more meaning. With all that said, I do believe Snowden went to way far (but my theory, not based on really many facts, is he ran originally hoping for asylum, and when the US clamped down he did what he did to survive) * Gained Job under false pretenses. Lets run an analysis of all the CIA workers and see how they got their jobs, I'm sure none were due to family, friends, favors owed :rolleyes: I'd love for each person doing this bashing of Snowden to go under the same scrutiny. Then he hacks his way into the test he needs, lets see its an CIA job basically to hack the world and they think a guy smart enough to hack them to get a job successfully is a bad thing? Had he hacked his way into some terrorist plot this would now be put up as an award to how good a hacker he is. * Distributed Classified file/info. Isn't this the whole spy thing to do? And didn't some numb scull co-workers give him passwords to their accounts which is basically breaking the classified ranking as well, so they also distributed classified info/files, yes due to being stupid but they still did it. * Snowden is a whistleblower and the fact that its the government is what is the crux of the problem. Had he held his info who could he take this case to? Other than a foreign nation no one would help him out or they'd sever their own foot. Where do people from other countries go when they do the same thing? Do they stay and try to get their facts out to the government or do they flee and seek political asylum? Its as if the US Gov. is brain dead thinking he was going to just bring up a case in the US, its like they're asking for their fish in a barrel, yea right. Every time spy info gets out its the same thing, ex-spy's become traitors (to the general public) persona's non grata but months before that who ever was paying them was sure happy the info they did/had provided. There's is another not so media hyped whistleblower case going on now, and when that started they basically ripped the guy to shreds and the guy ended up living in a cabin out in the woods to stay away from it all because he basically lost everything except his drive for the case, then years later BAMM everything he said is becoming true, people are coo-berating his facts and the domino's are falling on way in the case. Since the Gov. has an angle to win as well they are piling on now, but back then they also wrote him off. History repeats itself and Snowden should persue a whistleblower case it will take a long time but I'm sure he'll vindicate himself. I roll with sigs off so I have no idea what you're advertising. This is NOT the signature you are looking for. 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Posted December 23, 2013 * Gained Job under false pretenses. Lets run an analysis of all the CIA workers and see how they got their jobs, I'm sure none were due to family, friends, favors owed :rolleyes: I'd love for each person doing this bashing of Snowden to go under the same scrutiny. Then he hacks his way into the test he needs, lets see its an CIA job basically to hack the world and they think a guy smart enough to hack them to get a job successfully is a bad thing? Had he hacked his way into some terrorist plot this would now be put up as an award to how good a hacker he is. * Distributed Classified file/info. Isn't this the whole spy thing to do? And didn't some numb scull co-workers give him passwords to their accounts which is basically breaking the classified ranking as well, so they also distributed classified info/files, yes due to being stupid but they still did it. * Snowden is a whistleblower and the fact that its the government is what is the crux of the problem. Had he held his info who could he take this case to? Other than a foreign nation no one would help him out or they'd sever their own foot. Where do people from other countries go when they do the same thing? Do they stay and try to get their facts out to the government or do they flee and seek political asylum? Its as if the US Gov. is brain dead thinking he was going to just bring up a case in the US, its like they're asking for their fish in a barrel, yea right. Every time spy info gets out its the same thing, ex-spy's become traitors (to the general public) persona's non grata but months before that who ever was paying them was sure happy the info they did/had provided. There's is another not so media hyped whistleblower case going on now, and when that started they basically ripped the guy to shreds and the guy ended up living in a cabin out in the woods to stay away from it all because he basically lost everything except his drive for the case, then years later BAMM everything he said is becoming true, people are coo-berating his facts and the domino's are falling on way in the case. Since the Gov. has an angle to win as well they are piling on now, but back then they also wrote him off. History repeats itself and Snowden should persue a whistleblower case it will take a long time but I'm sure he'll vindicate himself. If thats how you think CIA Agents get their jobs, you need to turn the TV off, and I mean stat. The requirements to become say a Intelligence Collection Analyst are as follows "include a bachelor's or master's degree in a variety of fields, such as political science, international studies, national security, history, geography library science, remote sensing, statistics, or a closely related discipline. A minimum GPA of 3.0 on a 4-point scale is required. Competitive candidates typically will have higher GPAs, relevant experience, and strong verbal presentation and writing skills, including the demonstrated ability to write clear and concise text. Excellent analytical and problem-solving skills, well-developed interpersonal skills, excellent briefing skills, and an ability to convey complex information in a clear, concise manner are also required. Analysts are expected to be comfortable using computers, because significant portions of their work employ complex databases. Intelligence collection experience is preferred--but not required--and military experience is valued. Foreign language capability is desired." So, you are okay with say... other double agents that cost men and womens lives because they gave information of a classified nature to our enemies or to the public? (And yes I can list every one out for you.) You really don't know half of what you think, really. Snowden is NOT a whistleblower, in fact he had a path to take to become a whistleblower, and if you did research you would know this (Want me to list them there are several options?), and he chose to become judge jury and executioner on what people should know. Not just domestically mind you, but international matters as well. Which can and did aid the enemy so to speak. Read below to see how he gained access to the information (with source), so you can understand you have NO idea what you are talking about. There is something seriously wrong with the way computer security and governments have gotten. With the talk of hardware that has had loopholes built in and software...it would be nice to see a government stop interfering (Not that I am saying the government approved it, as it seems the NSA has almost formed a secondary government that runs independently). As much as I disagree with what Snowden did (in the long haul, I actually thought his first leaks were alright) you are brushing over huge details. Just to explain a few tidbits on your information. *Gained a job under false pretenses. Never heard of this...I did hear they had gotten word he wasn't the most stable of guys and they still gave him access. If you have an article please post (I would actually like to read it...I just never read this anywhere yet) *Hacked classified files. No....if by hacked you mean accessed information he wasn't suppose to because they have shoddy security yes...but to me if you have a password and it is based on the honor system not to look at stuff you aren't suppose to then yea it is hacking. *Distributed classified files to unauthorized persons. Agreed (although if the classified files contain the government performing illegal actions does that make it right?) *Distributed classified information to unauthorized persons. (see above) *Distributed classified files to foreign nationals. (Public release....so yes) *Distributed classified information to foreign nationals. (See Above) *Willfully divulged classified information and data that pertained to foreign intelligence to foreign nationals. (Again public release) *Willfully and knowingly violated 18 USC § 798. The problem is the government is labelling so many things with "US security" you could claim that they were justified in putting a backdoor in every software and forcing the companies to stay silent (After all it is for the "security"). *Fled to avoid prosecution. (He could have faced the death penalty...wouldn't you run) *Quiet on spying of Russian citizens by Russian Government. (He doesn't have classified docs showing that) The problem is the information he has been releasing isn't anything new (I bet the other governments knew about the spying, and also do it against other countries). I even speculated and thought they did years ago...but every time I joked about it with friends I was turned into a "conspearousy nut". The fact is overall I think there has been little damage that Snowden has done politically, but in the minds of the people there has been a lot more doubt. The problem is if you become a whistleblower it can just be discredited...the fact he put his lifestyle on the line and was the frontface of the leaks it gave the documents more meaning. With all that said, I do believe Snowden went to way far (but my theory, not based on really many facts, is he ran originally hoping for asylum, and when the US clamped down he did what he did to survive) As for why he gained the job at BAH (Source: http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1268209/snowden-sought-booz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa-surveillance) "Asked if he specifically went to Booz Allen Hamilton to gather evidence of surveillance, he replied: "Correct on Booz."" This is gaining a job specifically to gain information to release to the public, and under false pretenses. As for the hacking, how he did it (Source: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/25/greenwald-snowden-s-files-are-out-there-if-anything-happens-to-him.html), he fabricated digital keys that gave him access to system far above what he should have had access to as a low level contractor should. As for would I run? I don't know, since I'd never betray my Country nor the Oath I took to protect Her against all enemies Foreign and Domestic. But if he's doing it for the truth, shouldn't he be willing to stand there and face a trial by his peers, instead of running like a scared dog that got caught shitting on the floor? When you release sources and methods like Snowden has, it has consequences beyond just the initial shock value. Sources dry up, for fear of their name leaking and that can and probably would lead to their death. And in some places in the world *cough* Russia *cough* your family and friends as well. Methods? The enemy, the people intending to do you harm adapt. They stop using that information pipeline you had been monitoring, and go to ground so to speak. They either wait until they think it is safe to come up for air, or they switch to something else and then you have no way of what they are doing. That can be real scary. Hypothetical here, say we knew of an attack in the planning stages, Snowden leaks this information, and the people planning this attack go dark. Do you think they just stopped planning, or did Snowdens leak spook them to a different means of communication that we can't monitor? How about other operations that had to be stopped for fear they would be leaked as well? The worst of all is the threats to this Country didn't stop because of the leak, they will keep coming, and we lost a tool to help detect and defend against them. And also learn from them. Other side of the coin isn't real pretty, is it. Sure, everyone can have an opinion, but what Snowden did was stupid, dangerous, illegal, and for his own "fame". He isn't some hero that rode in on a white horse. He's a common criminal and a traitor. Plain and simple. As for the Russian Government spying, he really doesn't need classified documents to speak to it. It actually ended up in court. The only thing that changed from that court case a reporter brought against the Government was that they had to just tell the ISP that they were in their system. The Russian Government has a free hand to monitor everything. They actually don't even need a court order, they just go and take it, they just go and monitor. But again, Snowden is quiet on this front. I actually wonder why. But I leave this in closing to both of you, Snowden released information that the US and Israel created and released the Stuxnet virus into the Iranian Nuclear Facility. Is that such a whistleblower and a hero? Remember, at that point Iran is an enemy of the United States. A Government that makes most other Countries besides a few look like angels. A Country that wants to wipe our Allies off the face of this planet. A Country that wants Nuclear Arms to threaten their neighbors and the World. A Country that has a history of breeding and supplying Terrorists. EDIT: I wanted to add to this, because I think people don't have the full grasp of Iran completely. Iran, according to the United States State Department is one of the leading States of state sponsored terrorism in the World. This classification was enacted on January 19, 1984 and has NOT been rescinded since, no matter what talks have taken place over the years. Instead of quoting from the document, here it is. http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2012/209985.htm . So basically what Snowden did was release classified information to an Enemy of the United States of America. Huh? I thought he was trying to help the people of the United States, not hurt them. Gee, see how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 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