Twilight Princess HD- really a remaster?

[Aereldor]

Greetings.

Like most people who follow the Zelda franchise, I'm no stranger to the Twilight Princess HD remaster that is in the making. However, amidst the pool of elated Nintendo fan(boy)s, I find myself a little disappointed.

Coming from someone who mods almost every older title he owns, from The Elder Scrolls to anything from Bioware, this is something I recognize all too well.

This is the texture treatment. It's isn't so much as a remake as it is a retexture, with models still being blocky and acutely polygonal and the lighting and overall aesthetic of the game remaining very similar, if not completely identical. Observing Nintendo's work on their previous Wii U remaster of The Wind Waker, which felt like a completely new game, or at least visually redesigned form the ground up (although it owes much to the timeless art), I'm rather let-down by this.

Wind Waker HD comparison-

What are your thoughts on this?

Regards,
Aereldor.

 

[Aereldor]

Did they even change anything other than making the game/s run on the newer hw?

 

I have the Windwaker Wii U, and I have the GC game too.

They bumped the textures, but it just feels lazy. The models, lighting, and animation are identical. Sure, there's a little more detail, but from a couple of feet away from your television, it doesn't exactly make a world of difference- it's barely noticeable, as I discovered from patching Xenoblade and Skyward Sword with HD textures on the Dolphin emulator and then streaming them to my TV.

[ShadowCaptain]

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Honestly for an HD re-release thats all i want, I dont want the game to feel new, I want the game to be as faithful to the original but play with higher fidelity graphics

 

Depends if you want a remake of the game, or an HD re-release, two very different things

[PlayStation 2]

They've really been going down the gutter this year qq

[minibois]

There is not a huge difference, but a zelda remake that did impove the game a lot (in terms of graphics) was Ocarina of Time 3D.

[Aereldor]

Honestly for an HD re-release thats all i want, I dont want the game to feel new, I want the game to be as faithful to the original but play with higher fidelity graphics

 

Depends if you want a remake of the game, or an HD re-release, two very different things

That's my point- the so-called 'upgrade' in graphical fidelity is going to be nigh unnoticeable. Models will still be block, the lighting will still be shabby, animations will still be as clunky as the base game. Unless you play on a monitor or sit uncomfortably close to your television, the difference will probably be close to unnoticeable.

The Wind Waker was excellent in this respect. It felt faithful to the original game, but downright gorgeous. While there are people who disliked its aesthetic upon release, it still looked real sharp for its time, and the 2013 remaster was no different.

When I watched the trailers and comparisons for Twilight Princess HD, it just felt like the base game without any notable improvements (truly, the only differences that stood out to me were the leaf textures). In Fact, I didn't even realize that the textures on the Wii version were low-quality from where I was sitting.

[Aereldor]

There is not a huge difference, but a zelda remake that did impove the game a lot (in terms of graphics) was Ocarina of Time 3D.

Yeah, both 3DS remakes of the N64 games were great, but this pertains to Twilight Princess' remaster, and how it exhibits almost no improvement (in my opinion) compared to The Wind Waker's 2013 remaster. And wherever I look, fans and fan-pages like ZeldaInformer are just eating it up without a shred of criticism as to its lack of tangible improvement. I'm sure work went into the textures, but was anything else even considered?

[minibois]

Yeah, both 3DS remakes of the N64 games were great, but this pertains to Twilight Princess' remaster, and how it exhibits almost no improvement (in my opinion) compared to The Wind Waker's 2013 remaster. And wherever I look, fans and fan-pages like ZeldaInformer are just eating it up without a shred of criticism as to its lack of tangible improvement. I'm sure work went into the textures, but was anything else even considered?

You have to realise it is also a remake in the sense that the Wii was 480p or so and the Wii U 1080p. I know the same is true from GaeCube to  Wii U (Windwaker) but I believe such a jump in system (or resolution) benefits such 'realisic' looking games more than cell shaded game.

[skywake]

I have two different takes on this. For a start I don't really want the game to look drastically different, I want it to still look like Twilight Princess. All I want is for it to not look like garbage on a modern TV. The original only ran at 480p and the textures were garbage so just improving those two things is probably enough to be worth a remake. Especially given we'll probably also gain the ability to use the functionality of the GamePad for off-TV play, inventory, maps etc. The fact that they're also including a soundtrack with the game also gives me hope that they're possibly going for a recorded rather than a MIDI soundtrack this time.

 

The second point I'd make is that this game is four months away and we've only seen one trailer. My understanding is that the Australian developer working on this HD remaster only started working on it earlier this year. So they're just over half way through it. I wouldn't expect a drastic change in the way the game looks between now and then but I think it's fair to say that it will improve. It's also worth remembering that these guys handled the Wii U ports for Deus Ex: HR and Mass Effect 3, both of which were solid ports. I wouldn't be too worried about how the final product is going to turn out.

 

also while we're on this topic...

[B16CXHatch]

Did we watch the same video? The textures are all around pretty well improved from what I saw as well as the aliasing on the models was massively improved. It looks way better.

 

*tell me again how the Wii/GameCube textures don't look that bad:

 

[B16CXHatch]

Also, I'm not saying the old game looks bad by any means. It looks good for what it was originally designed for but the new textures look much nicer.

 

Either way, I'm buying it. It is quite possibly my favorite GameCube game, and I will happily play it again on my Wii U.

[CatCloud]

Did we watch the same video? The textures are all around pretty well improved from what I saw as well as the aliasing on the models was massively improved. It looks way better.

 

*tell me again how the Wii/GameCube textures don't look that bad:

 

 

 

Also, I'm not saying the old game looks bad by any means. It looks good for what it was originally designed for but the new textures look much nicer.

 

Either way, I'm buying it. It is quite possibly my favorite GameCube game, and I will happily play it again on my Wii U.

I think your missing the point... what he is saying is the game looks to be a re texture upgrade...lightning and whatnot is the same, its less choppy (60 fps now i bet) but as he mentioned in almost every post, the game feels like its just a bump in the Texture and nothing else, meanwhile Windwaker HD had a more drastic change, not as big as Ocarina of Time and Majoras mask but still very noticeable. 

Personally i own them all so i know the difference, and i do love the Texture Upgrade and Smoother animation, but i do hope they also upgraded the lightning, shadows and long distance details. 

The Video above gave me the same vibs as OP, a texture upgrade...Time will tell once its out. Cant wait.

 

[DaltonM]

The graphical limitations of the Wii really helped the atmosphere and ambiance of TP. I hope they don't loose this with the upgrade. 

 

While the Wii U can play the original Wii version, it's nice to have a version that takes advantage of the graphical power, perhaps even the gamepad, of the Wii U.

 

The Wii U is shaping up to be the ultimate Zelda Machine. If only they had Wii U version of OoT and MM remake. But you can still play the original versions through virtual console. 

 

 

I'll pick up every Zelda game and a Wii U once ZeldU is out. 

[zackjay21]

Ya, I hardly noticed much of a difference in Windwaker.

same

[fank]

I loved the game, and look forward to playing it with newer graphics

Doesnt wow me but im glad theyre doing it

 

 

I bought the Wii U when Mario Kart came out expecting to play Zelda soon

This helps to make up for the lengthy delays

[Drunken Savior]

Did Nintendo ever call it a remake?  I remember the rumors over the summer were that Nintendo was making a remake, but I never remembered Nintendo themselves saying it was a remake when it was announced, just the game in HD.

[LinusTech]

I'd say it's more just like a port, not so much a remaster

 

I'd say it's more like a graphical fidelity slider. Something we can turn up on the PC when we get new hardware without re-buying the game

 

I love Twilight Princess and wouldn't buy this..

[Guest]

I'd say it's more like a graphical fidelity slider. Something we can turn up on the PC when we get new hardware without re-buying the game

 

I love Twilight Princess and wouldn't buy this..

Yo, is there an official 960Ti thread somewhere?

[Aereldor]

I'd say it's more like a graphical fidelity slider. Something we can turn up on the PC when we get new hardware without re-buying the game

 

I love Twilight Princess and wouldn't buy this..

Apologies, it seems I'm a few weeks late.

I'd say it falls short of that too. A graphical fidelity slider is bound to improve more things than textures. Also, in development, textures are never originally created as pixellated pieces of junk- that's a result of compression.

I could be wrong, but I think Nintendo's just slapped the uncompressed textures from development on there now that their new console can run it (and at 60 FPS, hopefully). However, it feels lazy, as the textures are the only component that have been improved, along with toning down the bloom used to hide the awful old textures.

In contrast, here's a fan remake that I believe is a more thorough 'remaster'.

Out of curiosity, Linus, what are your thoughts about Zelda Wii U, and how Nintendo hasn't told us anything about it?