What should schools teach?

[Speed Weed]

1 minute ago, TechyBen said:

We continually figured out how to game the system. Scores... Lol. XD

I don't even know how to file a tax on my own. Thanks a lot school because I have to spend my free time to do a research on how to file a tax return on my own.................................

[TechyBen]

The world is strange though. If you can afford to pay an accountant, do you need to go to school to learn how to do it?

 

Similar with lessons. I guess that's why a lot are "you need to learn how to learn" and "history". Because learning about things is great. But also learning how to learn is greater.

[Volbet]

27 minutes ago, spwath said:

Side note, I hated heart of darkness, but liked the messages in it. It was just so boring and drawn out though.

I had a friend in high school who had to read Atlas Shrugged for his English class.

At least Heart of Darkness is short. Atlas Shrugged is 1.200 pages of filler and ideological porn.

 

Personally, I had it the same way with Lord of the Flies. The book is a brilliant piece of Hobbsian literature, but it's dull as hell.

Luckily, it wasn't required reading, so I could finish it at my own pace.

 

Come to think of it, I actually really liked all the fiction I had to read during my high school English course.

[TechyBen]

I read Far From the Madding Crowd, and guessed the surprise ending and ruined it for everyone else... XD (Though how they also knew I ruined it without reading the end... )

Though I may have seen a TV version of it as a younger kid, and subconsciously remembered?

[spwath]

5 minutes ago, Volbet said:

I had a friend in high school who had to read Atlas Shrugged for his English class.

At least Heart of Darkness is short. Atlas Shrugged is 1.200 pages of filler and ideological porn.

 

Personally, I had it the same way with Lord of the Flies. The book is a brilliant piece of Hobbsian literature, but it's dull as hell.

Luckily, it wasn't required reading, so I could finish it at my own pace.

 

Come to think of it, I actually really liked all the fiction I had to read during my high school English course.

I found Lord of the flies enjoyable. More interesting than heart of darkness for sure.

[TacoSenpai]

4 hours ago, wasab said:

Latin is useless. The entire world doesn't revolve around western civilization. Kids in places like China or Korea probably do not even know what Latin is or what relevence it has on their own language, culture, history, politics  and religion so forget about that. If school truly needs to teach a foreign language, all the non English speakers ought to be learning English and all the English speakers ougght to be learning Spanish, Chinese, French, Russian or something. 

Maybe it is doesn't have to be latin but some foreign language the act of learning how to learn different words and translate them exercises a certain part of your brain that otherwise can be difficult and I feel provides a more rounded individual.

[Azerafel]

5 hours ago, Jtalk4456 said:

sounds like a good selection but needs more organization so you can take advantage of the resources better

I think that's the issue at a lot of schools, and a broader issue, at least within the US. A lot of the schools near me have some really interesting classes (e.g. most have a shop class of some sort, some design classes,) and I, going to a STEM high school, have classes like robotics, AI, energy systems, anthropology, nanoscience, etc, but there's certain core classes you have to take, so you have only so many electives. From those electives, a lot of people choose to load on AP classes and stuff because the College Board and colleges have their system set up in a way that makes this the most artificially beneficial for someone trying to get into college. Those classes are the best for your GPA assuming you can do well in them, they're the ones you potentially get credit for in college, and they hold a certain amount of weight with schools because they're standardized, so they can easily judge how you did and stuff. It's a tragedy because it's a systemwide issue and so at a basic level my school couldn't do much about it.

[wasab]

3 hours ago, LordOTaco said:

Maybe it is doesn't have to be latin but some foreign language the act of learning how to learn different words and translate them exercises a certain part of your brain that otherwise can be difficult and I feel provides a more rounded individual.

Fun fact. Students who major in stem score higher in critical reasoning than those who major in the humanities. Language is important yes, but to a degree. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

How to be an adult. Such as:

• How to write a check (I still write checks and it's handy in a pinch for that one archaic dinosaur that doesn't want to go electronic)
• How to manage your money
• How to do your taxes
• How to write a resume

I'm sure I'm missing a few things.

 

Also exposing people to other cultures, either through videos or by taking trips, would be nice so people don't get conditioned to think where they grew up is how the world is supposed to work.

[Andreas Lilja]

1 hour ago, wasab said:

Fun fact. Students who major in stem score higher in critical reasoning than those who major in the humanities. Language is important yes, but to a degree. 

Not hard to get into humanities, or get a degree period. 

[Amazonsucks]

The problem with asking this question is that most schools for the normal, not super rich will never be able to teach what would be most beneficial to learn.

 

Thats not the majority of the function of the education system, which is really an indoctrination system designed to produce people who serve the desires of the ruling class and not be "problematic". Thats why so many schools look like prisons.

 

What should kids learn? Logic, philosophy, critical thinking, how to teach themselves new skills by being inquisitive.

 

School isnt the solution. Its often part of the problem.

 

 

[Amazonsucks]

7 hours ago, Volbet said:

I had a friend in high school who had to read Atlas Shrugged for his English class.

At least Heart of Darkness is short. Atlas Shrugged is 1.200 pages of filler and ideological porn.

 

Personally, I had it the same way with Lord of the Flies. The book is a brilliant piece of Hobbsian literature, but it's dull as hell.

Luckily, it wasn't required reading, so I could finish it at my own pace.

 

Come to think of it, I actually really liked all the fiction I had to read during my high school English course.

Did you actually read Atlas Shrugged yourself?

[Volbet]

21 minutes ago, Amazonsucks said:

Did you actually read Atlas Shrugged yourself?

Yes. I've actually read it twice, which is something I'd only recommend to the most dedicated of masochists.

[Amazonsucks]

2 minutes ago, Volbet said:

Yes.

Then you know its "romantic realism" which is intentionally exaggerated, hyperbolic characters right?

[Volbet]

4 hours ago, Amazonsucks said:

Then you know its "romantic realism" which is intentionally exaggerated, hyperbolic characters right?

I do.

It doesn't change the fact that the main characters are one-dimensional Mary Sue's, that most of the characters are completely pointless to the story, that there are several subplots that go nowhere and that Ayn Rand reveled in killing off characters, with whom she ideologically disagreed, to an almost sadistic extend.

 

Even if that's indicative of the style, then the style is poorly executed. Atlas Shrugged could have easily been 600 pages shorter and the messaged would have been the same. The basic rules of creative writing doesn't fly out the window just because you adopt a certain writing style.

 

Edit: if it's of any interest I did write a post a while back with a more in depth critic of objectivism and, by extention, Atlas Shrugged:

 

[mrchow19910319]

1. mental health
2. how to manage your money, how to save and invest

[kokakolia]

On 11/1/2018 at 1:35 PM, Speed Weed said:

I don't even know how to file a tax on my own. Thanks a lot school because I have to spend my free time to do a research on how to file a tax return on my own.................................

I am dating an accounting student. Problem solved. 

[kokakolia]

22 hours ago, mrchow19910319 said:

1. mental health
2. how to manage your money, how to save and invest

I would say that people skills and mental health are everything. 

 

But there’s one more thing and that’s really important and that’s history, culture and politics. You want to shape up citizens of the future. You want people to get involved with their government. Otherwise crony capitalism and consumer culture will take over. 

[Guest]

I’d say world history but we have that in a terrible excuse of “we paid attention to matters other than our own country’s” 

 

philosophy

any kind of art or music class that talks about art/music theory. 

Class that talks about jobs & careers. 

 

I took a home economics class in middle school but I felt like I could have learned more about cooking. 

Maybe a time management class. 

I’d also list a spiritualism class but that’s what catholic school is for. Also my country forbids forced religious worship in public schooling. 

[kokakolia]

3 hours ago, fpo said:

I’d say world history but we have that in a terrible excuse of “we paid attention to matters other than our own country’s” 

 

philosophy

any kind of art or music class that talks about art/music theory. 

Class that talks about jobs & careers. 

 

I took a home economics class in middle school but I felt like I could have learned more about cooking. 

Maybe a time management class. 

I’d also list a spiritualism class but that’s what catholic school is for. Also my country forbids forced religious worship in public schooling. 

I hated philosophy in highschool so much. It was immensely hard work, with very low grades. Everybody in my class couldn’t care less and got below 50%. I don’t think that angsty teenagers are calm and focused enough to care. They just want to go home. I say you have to be in your mid 20s to care about philosophy, and not have 7 other really hard mandatory subjects to learn at the same time. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, kokakolia said:

I hated philosophy in highschool so much. It was immensely hard work, with very low grades. Everybody in my class couldn’t care less and got below 50%. I don’t think that angsty teenagers are calm and focused enough to care. They just want to go home. I say you have to be in your mid 20s to care about philosophy, and not have 7 other really hard mandatory subjects to learn at the same time. 

School wasn't hard for me. I stopped taking notes in 9th or 10th grade. I never completed notes ever though. Studying stopped in like 3rd grade. I feel like philosophy really expands people's minds though. 

[Amazonsucks]

5 hours ago, kokakolia said:

I would say that people skills and mental health are everything. 

 

But there’s one more thing and that’s really important and that’s history, culture and politics. You want to shape up citizens of the future. You want people to get involved with their government. Otherwise crony capitalism and consumer culture will take over. 

Or worse, the socialist, Marxist, revisionist history, self hating guilt culture, globalist agenda they currently push in schools will continue to take over.

 

I also dont think that school, particularly public school, is an environment where one goes to learn people skills. Thats supposed to happen through family anf community interactions, not in some Brave New World style education system that teaches people socialization.

 

I mean, some places have even gone in the opposite direction and started banning kids from having best friends in their conditioning centers... i mean schools.

 

Relevant segment starts at 1:30

 

And mental health in school? Thats a good one. Everything about the majority of the "education" system as it exists is detrimental to the mental health of kids and teens.

 

And really? People skills and mental health dont build cities, planes, cars, send people into space, design the next microchip etc. They are far from being everything, and they are definitely things that dont need to be taught by school teachers, many of whom are pretty wacked out and socially inept themselves.

 

 

[Gix7Fifty]

FICO scores.

[Amazonsucks]

On 11/2/2018 at 12:02 AM, Volbet said:

I do.

It doesn't change the fact that the main characters are one-dimensional Mary Sue's, that most of the characters are completely pointless to the story, that there are several subplots that go nowhere and that Ayn Rand reveled in killing off characters, with whom she ideologically disagreed, to an almost sadistic extend.

 

Even if that's indicative of the style, then the style is poorly executed. Atlas Shrugged could have easily been 600 pages shorter and the messaged would have been the same. The basic rules of creative writing doesn't fly out the window just because you adopt a certain writing style.

 

Edit: if it's of any interest I did write a post a while back with a more in depth critic of objectivism and, by extention, Atlas Shrugged:

 

Thats not much of a critique of objectivism. I was expecting a wall of text at least.

 

I dont agree with everything Rand said, but to assert that objectivism would imply that one should start human trials immediately is absurd. If you actually read the book youd know that her philosophy centered around the non-agression and trader principles.

 

She didnt murder off characters she disagreed with in her books either. Please give me an example of that happening, as i have read both Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead. I think i would remember such a morally contradictory action as that in a book by someone who preaches non-aggression.

 

One place where i absolutely agree with her is on economic policy. And even the ultra socialist/communists of this world secretly must as well. If not, they wouldnt engage in the exact things she wrote about, like preaching that people should be taxed at a high rate, have socialized welfare state shit medical care and how everyone should be equal while they amass huge fortunes, live in mansions and dodge paying taxes. Lets not forget the hypocrisy of fake environmentalists from this same camp who fly around in private jets and whose homes consume 30x the resources of the average US home.

 

For those old enough to remember the 2008 financial crisis with virtual nationalization(TARP and the bank/auto bailouts, appointing of incompent financial "czars", yes they called them fucking czars, etc.) was like something straight out of Atlas Shrugged.

 

The accuracy of her predictions is right up there with Huxley and Orwell.

 

She was also right about the degeneracy that gets touted as virtue, once the morally bankrupt take power, but she was far from the first philosopher to talk about that. That goes back thousands of years to what Socrates and other ancient philosophers said.

 

She was also right about how Fiat currency backed by nothing is dangerous. I mean look at the havoc that the Fed, which is nothing but a banking cartel, wreaks on the citizens of this country and every country with a central banking system. Dont have a central bank? Want to make a gold vacked real currency? That worked well for Gaddafi, who was murdered in the street because he pissed off the people who control the world's fake money supply.

 

Rand wasnt right about everything, and her writing is intentionally long winded and hyperbolic, but her books and philosophy are better than any of the drivel they make kids read in school these days.

 

And at least it has a positive, inspiring message instead of the brainwashing to be a good drone that most kids get in school from unethical teachers reading from vapid books.

[kokakolia]

1 hour ago, fpo said:

School wasn't hard for me. I stopped taking notes in 9th or 10th grade. I never completed notes ever though. Studying stopped in like 3rd grade. I feel like philosophy really expands people's minds though. 

Lucky you, my last 2 years of Highschool were harder than my first year of University. And I even learned Geology content in highschool that was taught in a 3rd year Geology University course. I still don’t understand why my High School had to be so hard. The Highschool diploma isn’t worth much.