What should schools teach?

[GoldenLag]

9 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

then just look at all the Kickstarter "projects" which start with an impossible or already proven false premise/invention and still get millions in funding.

"we made this revolutionary device that creates water from air and is definitively not a concept we have understood for millennia and is actually just a fancy dehumidifier with performance numbers you will never achieve. it runs of solar energy, fusioning the latest soler panel design in the budget solar panel market together with our revolutionary device. we will save children in Africa by making them buy this device that is way overpriced and they will never see this device helping them in any way"

 

something like this? i think there have at least been 7++ dehumidifiers on kickstarters and indigogo plus other funding and news websites 

[AngryBeaver]

18 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

that and a week long curriculum or just an hour of awkwardness where noone really wants to say anything.

Our sex ed was a week long thing. Where we watched this extremely old movie they still play for kids these days "Just around the corner" that stupid jingle is still stuck in my head. We had to put condoms on banana's and watch horrifying std videos... it was great fun! Hell they even passed out some "articles of feminine hygiene" then got mad when half of the boys hit the bottom of the applicator to turn them in to missiles flying around the class room.

[Jtalk4456]

25 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

I went to a "economic" elementary school. They had their own money system, had auctions for different things and items you could buy, you had a bank with an interest system and could buy these fake stocks or put your money into a CD that matured at each quarter. It really helped most of us understand how to be responsible with money... Oh and your pay rate was dependent on your grades and behavior in class weekly.

That is freaking awesome! 

[AngryBeaver]

Just now, Jtalk4456 said:

That is freaking awesome! 

Well I was a little bit of a troublemaker in school... so I never got paid much lol.

[Jtalk4456]

1 hour ago, TechyBen said:

Facts. The truth?

 

I did too much "stamp collecting" in school. I learnt lists that were correct as lists, but had no relation to reality. I learnt models that were learnt as facts, instead of models ("it is like this" instead of "it can be thought of like this").

 

Less magical thinking... no, not in the way you think. I was taught too much "imagine a new invention" or "design a new car", so the class all "designed" flying cars. We never did, we dreamt up impossible flying machines... we never learnt "how do you design a car" or "what is needed for a flying car".

 

If you think I'm over exaggerating, then just look at all the Kickstarter "projects" which start with an impossible or already proven false premise/invention and still get millions in funding. Why? Because the schools (and media) taught everyone "if you just dream big anything is possible" instead of "work hard and make improvements". There is a different in making improvements, and jumping off a cliff hoping you'll sprout wings.

 

[edit]

Whoops, which is not the answer you want... but therein lies my problem. It's not what was taught, but how it was that was the problem... so more practical lessons over parrot fashion repeating what the teacher says lessons? At the very least, those who work practically (even if maths, IT, history etc), will see for themselves if what the textbook says matches reality!

 

The most well rounded and clear headed teachers I had were in music (use of a practical instrument), engineering/woodworking (use of hands) and dare I say sport!

Weird... I never heard stuff like that outside of creative classes like art and music. We were just facts and lessons. I think creativity does need to be explored in schools, but there's a difference between asking people to be creative and asking them to make stuff up for the sake of calling it creative

[Worstcaster]

Most high school teach language.  I would like to see foreign language start in elementary school.

[Crunchy Dragon]

Elementary and middle school should teach you the basics you need. Math, grammar, spelling, etc.

 

High school should teach you life skills. Finances, basically everything you need to get by in today's world. These would supplement the normal subjects.

 

College should teach you anything and everything extra.

[Jtalk4456]

8 minutes ago, Worstcaster said:

Most high school teach language.  I would like to see foreign language start in elementary school.

it does in some places, but it definitely needs to be more widespread!

[Azerafel]

 

High school senior here. I had a personal finance class required before graduation. The same stuff is slapped onto the end of AP Macro/Micro here, which I also took. We also have an electronics class, although there's not much about more sophisticated computers and that would be nice to have.

[2FA]

Your topic just made me realize my tiny school district in NY had pretty much everything you listed, which really makes me wonder about the rest of the US. My only complaint about it though is that you pretty much had to choose between AP classes or trade/life skill classes most of the time.

[Jtalk4456]

2 minutes ago, 2FA said:

Your topic just made me realize my tiny school district in NY has pretty much everything you listed, which really makes me wonder about the rest of the US. My only complaint about it though is that you pretty had to choose between AP classes or trade/life skill classes most of the time.

awesome! Can you give an idea of some of the stuff you took and how good/bad the classes were?

[Drak3]

Gun safety.

[2FA]

Just now, Jtalk4456 said:

awesome! Can you give an idea of some of the stuff you took and how good/bad the classes were?

I took a half day electrons/computer class my junior and senior year, but because of that, I couldn't take anything else that was an elective since I had still had to take core classes for graduation. I even had to do a solo/online PE class my senior year so I could take Algebra 2/Trig as I couldn't take it my junior (when you would normally take it) due to scheduling issues but I absolutely needed it for university. Luckily my half day class had its own requirements (since it was part of BOCES, not my school district) which included modules dedicated to personal finance and resume writing. 

[Jtalk4456]

1 minute ago, 2FA said:

I took a half day electrons/computer class my junior and senior year, but because of that, I couldn't take anything else that was an elective since I had still had to take core classes for graduation. I even had to do a solo/online PE class my senior year so I could take Algebra 2/Trig as I couldn't take it my junior (when you would normally take it) due to scheduling issues but I absolutely needed it for university. Luckily my half day class had its own requirements (since it was part of BOCES, not my school district) which included modules dedicated to personal finance and resume writing. 

sounds like a good selection but needs more organization so you can take advantage of the resources better

[TacoSenpai]

Less of what to think and more of how to think.

 

Return to a more classical education system.

 

Civics, classical philosophy, history, and writing should be at the forefront early on and perhaps a foreign language such as Latin.  Of course the maths and sciences would be in there but I would focus on that in the later stages of education as people begin to figure out how they want to specialize and apply their talents. 

 

[wasab]

1 hour ago, LordOTaco said:

Less of what to think and more of how to think.

 

Return to a more classical education system.

 

Civics, classical philosophy, history, and writing should be at the forefront early on and perhaps a foreign language such as Latin.  Of course the maths and sciences would be in there but I would focus on that in the later stages of education as people begin to figure out how they want to specialize and apply their talents. 

 

Read and write and basic arithmetic in elementary schools. Sciences should be completely excluded. You arent gonna be learning any sciences until these basics are taken care of first. No point in solving for force/energy if you can't even add/subtract or read what the problem is even asking. 

 

In middle school(if that's a thing in your country) and high school, there should be greater emphasizes on the math and sciences. This is the point where kids undergoing puberbty are developing a seriously sharp and strong mental faculty. They can reason very well so it is the perfect time to have them pick up topics in physics, chemistry, geometry, algebra, trigonometry, and calculus. 

 

Language arts is still importabt but you are learning to read and write in all subjects. Heck, you will even be writing in physics and mathematics so it isn't as important as the early stages. 

 

History should be on the side. I guess it would be beneficial for kids to learn the background and the history behind the world they live in but unless they want to be a historians and dig into every nitty gritty details, they are perfectly fine just knowing the general big picture. 

 

Latin is useless. The entire world doesn't revolve around western civilization. Kids in places like China or Korea probably do not even know what Latin is or what relevence it has on their own language, culture, history, politics  and religion so forget about that. If school truly needs to teach a foreign language, all the non English speakers ought to be learning English and all the English speakers ougght to be learning Spanish, Chinese, French, Russian or something. 

[Volbet]

18 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

I wonder if high school students would appreciate something as syllogisms and logical fallacies but then they're the ones who are suckers to "all things natural" so they probably should learn about it.

I don't know if anyone will appreciate it learning this stuff, but I want people to actually think about what they're learning. 

This is, for example, why I truely appreciate my high school history teacher for not just teaching history, but teaching histography as well.  

Basically, he worked from the philosophy of "Every historian is iying to you. It's your job to find out what their lie is and then to create your own lie from that". 

 

Having these basic tools at their dissposal would allow student to actually form a better understanding of the point of their education. 

Reading King Lear is a fucking chore if you're just reading it for the purpose of reading a work by Shakespear. 

But if you can actually place a Shakespear play in its proper context within the history of ideas, then the exercise is a lot more useful.   

 

[spwath]

6 hours ago, Volbet said:

I've always advocated for an introductory course on philosophy. Not that high schoolers should be required to know the Republic by heart, but having a 6-12 months course that teaches critical thinking, economic theory, political - and governmental theory, scientific theory and epistemology would benefit in pretty much all classes anyone have to take during their tenure in education.

In a way, advanced English courses go into philosophy a bit.

Hard not to reading books like "The Stranger", "Heart of Darkness" and more. 

[Volbet]

33 minutes ago, spwath said:

In a way, advanced English courses go into philosophy a bit.

Hard not to reading books like "The Stranger", "Heart of Darkness" and more. 

I guess. Although, it depends a bit on how you angle it. While Heart of Darkness has a lot to say about Western culture, imperialism and racism, it's also easy to just analyse purely as a piece of literature.

While that's certainly interesting and does shed light on the novella's themes, it also doesn't present it in a larger context.

 

There's also the problem of curriculum and how the teacher presents frames the material.

For example, when I took English classes (which is about 10 years ago), the main focus of our material was non-fiction (with three fictional works thrown in during the course).

But my teacher worked around that restriction, and I still remember the time he had us read Industrial Society and it's Future and discuss the arguments presented in the essay.

[spwath]

4 minutes ago, Volbet said:

I guess. Although, it depends a bit on how you angle it. While Heart of Darkness has a lot to say about Western culture, imperialism and racism, it's also easy to just analyse purely as, a piece of literature.

 

There's also the problem of curriculum and how the teacher presents frames the material.

For example, when I took English classes (which is about 10 years ago), the main focus of our material was non-fiction (with three fictional works thrown in during the course).

But my teacher worked around that restriction, and I still remember the time he had us read Industrial Society and it's Future and discuss the arguments presented in the essay.

My English classes in high 11th and 12th grade were pretty focused on philosophy. We talked a lot about the phycological ideas behind all the books we read. I don't think we really read any non fiction at all. Talked a lot about existentialism and absurdism along with other ideologies.

 

Side note, I hated heart of darkness, but liked the messages in it. It was just so boring and drawn out though.

[Speed Weed]

I agree with this man in the video. 

 

[Guest]

Reading, Writing, Arithmetic, Science, Trades.

[TechyBen]

8 minutes ago, Speed Weed said:

I agree with this man in the video. 

 

Kinda agree. Those things we learnt in school were not always wrong (science and history discoveries found out a lot was though!  ), but they were not important.

 

Oh, I don't mean history and art is not important. But I learnt how to do trigonometry, but when I go to work, it's all about percentages and annualised interest. History was about WW1 and 2, but people remembered the most recent effects to their lives. Big differences.

[Speed Weed]

3 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Kinda agree. Those things we learnt in school were not always wrong (science and history discoveries found out a lot was though!  ), but they were not important.

  

Oh, I don't mean history and art is not important. But I learnt how to do trigonometry, but when I go to work, it's all about percentages and annualised interest. History was about WW1 and 2, but people remembered the most recent effects to their lives. Big differences.

In my opinion, school care about test and score more than real life stuff though. 

[TechyBen]

1 minute ago, Speed Weed said:

In my opinion, school care about test and score more than real life stuff though. 

We continually figured out how to game the system. Scores... Lol. XD