Samsung unveils GalaxyBook 2 with Snapdragon 850 with ONLY 4GB RAM for $1000 | Everything wrong with the Pro 6 and more

[Nowak]

9 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I just realized another issue with this device. It runs the cancer marketed as Windows 10 S.

 

That means that to everyone who has brought up using Firefox, Chrome, or some other browser, forget it. Windows 10 S is locked to Edge. You can not use any other browser. It is also locked to using Bing as the default search engine.

Oh, and you can't install programs outside of the Microsoft store. So all those x86 programs Microsoft says you can run thanks to the ARM-to-x86 compatibility layer? You better pray that the program you need is in the Microsoft Store or else you can't install it on the computer.

10 S can be upgraded to 10 Home for free. So there's a good thing out of this.

[GoodBytes]

5 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

There's no need to insult my intelligence.

I am not insulting anyone. You can believe what you want, but if you want to convince someone you need to bring evidence and facts. I have, and I encourage anyone else to try, not to mention that it is easy to do.

 

5 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Why are you defending Microsoft so hard? 

I am not defending Microsoft for anything. We are talking about 4GB of RAM option should exists or not on PCs running Windows.

You are the one that set the stage of discussion by saying that there is no room for 4GB of RAM in the PC space.

[Master Delta Chief]

Having 4GB is 'plenty' if you want to do basic web browsing and just basic tasks on your computer, but since many more programs require more RAM, it's starting to become sort of obsolete. Certain web browsers (more notably Chrome) just hog your memory quickly. The least memory-using browser that I used would be Opera. The rest still use significantly more.

 

Now regarding this piece of laptop... This is overpriced and isn't new at all in the industry, but this is just plainly bullshit. For a price tag like that, I expect at least 8GB and a bit more storage. This is just paying for it's "comfortability, portability, design, and LTE Feature" (but even then LTE is available at much lower cost devices"). If you want to use LTE, just use your phone as hotspot, simple as that. They're basically pulling of an Apple. Giving "low-spec performance" at much higher price. 

[Emberstone]

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Yes, but that is not what is being discussed. What is being discussed is that 4GB is not enough for anything at all where you can't even browse the web, and therefore it should not exists. What I and others are countering is that 4GB is actually plenty for providing an excellent experience for a system that you can't/won't play the latest fanciest games, and video editing and such.

 

You aren't wrong (and I never said you were), but the price should reflect what the device is capable of. And this isn't capable of much.

 

This doesn't deserve to be a $1000 device.

[LAwLz]

11 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

yet i can't run NFS Underground in Windows 10?

NFS Underground probably uses SecuROM DRM. Support for that was removed in Windows 10, so lots of older game no longer works without removing the DRM. 

[Ashleyyyy]

8 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

NFS Underground probably uses SecuROM DRM. Support for that was removed in Windows 10, so lots of older game no longer works without removing the DRM. 

why did they do that? 

[Guest]

On 10/20/2018 at 3:09 AM, GoodBytes said:

You are not going to game or run VMs on this system. 4GB is plenty.

Your phone needs a lot of RAM because it is an Android and runs Google's custom Java runtime, and Android is RAM intensive.

This runs Windows, and it is fine at running with 4GB of RAM

So correct. People don't seem to realise the capabilities of this chip is probably find for the amount of RAM. 

You're not going to do anything intensive on this tablet - it's made for Word, OneNote, YouTube etc. 4GB of RAM is plenty for those tasks. If you are going to be running applications that need to use more than 4GB of RAM - the processor most likely won't be able to keep up - and more so it probably won't be an ARM application either. 

 

Moreover, Windows 10 S is not Windows 10 Pro - It's designed for these tablets. People saying their phones have more - well they run Android and are competing in an Android market. Check out the amount of RAM on an iPhone (rather - iPad Pro and you can see that you can run Browsers, Word etc just fine on a nice operating system without more than 4G of RAM on an ARM system. Windows 10 S is not Android and will work fine.

 

Regardless, everyone needs to wait for the reviews as usual before making a decision. 

[Drak3]

56 minutes ago, PacketMan said:

I've come here to remember everyone that thinks 4GB of RAM is crap that it's a mobile processor, so the buyers of this atrocity sure just want to watch Netflix, edit files and surf the marvelous Internet, and nothing else that requires more

Under Windows 10 and any version of any half capable browser released in the past few years, 4GB isn't going to be sufficient for any longer than a few minutes. The OS and programs aren't going to be as light on RAM as the lighterweight native ARM counterparts.

[Donut417]

7 hours ago, NowakVulpix said:

0 S can be upgraded to 10 Home for free. So there's a good thing out of this.

Windows 10 home is not arm capable last I seen. So upgrading might be out of the question. Unless they release a version that is able to run on arm. So you might be stuck on 10S 

[Nowak]

2 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Windows 10 home is not arm capable last I seen. So upgrading might be out of the question. Unless they release a version that is able to run on arm. So you might be stuck on 10S 

10 Home was ported to ARM, yes. It's how people tested x86 apps on the earlier WoA devices, by disabling S Mode and going to 10 Home.

 

It's the same codebase, I don't see how edition would have anything to do with it.

[GoodBytes]

36 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Windows 10 home is not arm capable last I seen. So upgrading might be out of the question. Unless they release a version that is able to run on arm. So you might be stuck on 10S 

Windows 10 for ARM is FULL Windows 10.

It is like Windows 10 32-bit  or Windows 10 64-bit... you just have one for ARM CPUs.

 

S Mode is a mode where you can only get apps from the Microsoft Store app (you have so far: iTunes, Paint.Net, Pandora, Spotify, Office, VLC, Netflix, Hulu, WhatsApp, Foxit, Plex, WinZip, Slack, Microsoft To Do, Microsoft Teams, Microsoft Whiteboard, Crunchyroll, Notepad++, and more. So you have a growing number of apps.. I guess you can say, for a typical non-gaming setup, it is only missing Firefox or Chrome, which they can't come to the Store as they need to use Edge back-end, like on iOS devices). You can upgrade for free to the non-S mode if you want, and you can install apps from everywhere.

 

You can switch  to non-S Mode (unlock, if you want to call it that) for free. So you have:

Windows 10 Home

Windows 10 Home - In S Mode

Windows 10 Pro

Windows 10 Pro - In S Mode

 

These editions exists for x86 (32-bit), x86-64 (64-bit) and ARM64 (64-bit ARM CPUs)

 

2 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

why did they do that? 

Microsoft did everything it can do, to block SecuROM from working (modifying system files, and using exploits found), as they were opening doors for viruses and a number of exploits,in addition it was a form of rootkit. SafeDisk was also blocked, but this has to do more with Microsoft fixing security issues on its OS, and SafeDisk not being supported anymore, so the DRM was never patched to make it work under Windows 10.

[Donut417]

9 minutes ago, NowakVulpix said:

I don't see how edition would have anything to do with it.

Because Home is not locked down like S is. So theoretically on a home version, you should be able to install outside the MS store. And if you got emulation, you should be able to install x86 software from any where. 

[Nowak]

Just now, Donut417 said:

Because Home is not locked down like S is. So theoretically on a home version, you should be able to install outside the MS store. And if you got emulation, you should be able to install x86 software from any where. 

Home and Pro is how you take advantage of the x86 translation layer on WoA. Also, I was wrong, you can unlock it to 10 Pro.

 

You'd still be served better by a regular x86 Windows device tbh. No performance loss from a translation layer.

[Phentos]

4GB of RAM is honestly enough for media consumption and maybe light gaming. Maybe. My Surface Pro 4 has only 4GB and while at first I had some misgivings about it having so little RAM but after some time I really didn't mind it.

 

The fact that this device requires a locked down Windows OS to work with its ARM CPU makes it irrelevant for any use besides a toy for you to use to babysit your kids or watch Netflix on.

[LAwLz]

19 hours ago, NowakVulpix said:

10 S can be upgraded to 10 Home for free. So there's a good thing out of this.

It can be upgraded for free, for now.

But in buying this you also support the atrocity that is Windows 10 S, which quite frankly shouldn't exist to begin with in my opinion.

If you buy a device with Windows 10 S, you are contributing to the downfall of Windows as a decent platform for consumers.

 

 

13 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

why did they do that? 

Because it was a security nightmare (like a lot of DRM).

If you want to play NFS underground you have a few options:

1) If you are on Windows 7 or 8, you can enable support for it by running this command in CMD "sc start secdrv". It just stards the SecuROM driver again. This does not work on Windows 10.

2) If the game has an update which removes the DRM, you can install that and it will work.

3) Download a crack. Sadly, this is illegal in most countries even though you have bought the game legally.

4) Re-purchase the game in a digital format. For some games, the Steam version doesn't include the SecuROM DRM so while the physical version no longer works, the digital copy does. I don't think NFS Underground is on Steam though.

 

 

11 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

S Mode is a mode where you can only get apps from the Microsoft Store app (you have so far: iTunes, Paint.Net, Pandora, Spotify, Office, VLC, Netflix, Hulu, WhatsApp, Foxit, Plex, WinZip, Slack, Microsoft To Do, Microsoft Teams, Microsoft Whiteboard, Crunchyroll, Notepad++, and more. So you have a growing number of apps.

Why does your posts about Microsoft products always sound like they were written by a marketing employee?

Whenever I see you mentioning anything remotely related to UWP, you always give a list of a handful apps and mention that the list is growing. It's getting kind of annoying because it really feels like reading an ad.

Even the apps you mentioned are kind of half-truths at best.

• Some of the ones listed (like VLC) are cut-down versions of the real programs. They do not offer the full functionality of the win32 version.
• Some of them like Notepad++ are unofficial forks (that example also happens to lack some features)
• And things like Office have been discontinued and won't get feature updates like the win32 version will. Just because an UWP version exists doesn't mean it is actively being developed or get the same prioritization as the proper version does.

 

 

12 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Microsoft did everything it can do, to block SecuROM from working (modifying system files, and using exploits found), as they were opening doors for viruses and a number of exploits,in addition it was a form of rootkit. SafeDisk was also blocked, but this has to do more with Microsoft fixing security issues on its OS, and SafeDisk not being supported anymore, so the DRM was never patched to make it work under Windows 10.

Ehm, the DRM didn't really need patching to work under Windows 10, and as far as I know Microsoft never "used exploits to stop SecuROM from working". They just stopped shipping, and blocked the driver. That's why it starts working again on Windows 7 and 8 once you start the driver service.

The rest of what you wrote is correct though. It was a security risk so that's why they blocked it.

 

 

12 hours ago, NowakVulpix said:

Home and Pro is how you take advantage of the x86 translation layer on WoA.

You're going to have to rely on the x86 translation layer even if you're running Windows 10 S.

Quite a lot of programs in the Store are not ARM-native, and those will be using the translation layer even if you downloaded them from the Store.

For example if you look up the unofficial NotePad++ in the Store and click on requirements, you will see that despite being in the store, it doesn't support ARM.

[GoodBytes]

Quote

Why does your posts about Microsoft products always sound like they were written by a marketing employee?

Anything positive that is being said about Windows or Microsoft, you say that it sounds like a Microsoft employee.

 

Quote

Whenever I see you mentioning anything remotely related to UWP, you always give a list of a handful apps and mention that the list is growing. It's getting kind of annoying because it really feels like reading an ad.

Well people don't give a Store a look, and so they don't know what is inside.

 

Quote

Even the apps you mentioned are kind of half-truths at best.

• Some of the ones listed (like VLC) are cut-down versions of the real programs. They do not offer the full functionality of the win32 version.

Actually on that point, that is my mistake. I thought they published the desktop version, but is still UWP app even if you are on desktop. I miss recalled.

Even better, VLC is now compiled for ARM64 officially. You can download it from VLC website. But if course you need to get out of S Mode.

 

 

Quote

• Some of them like Notepad++ are unofficial forks (that example also happens to lack some features)

It has all the features. Fork or not, as long as its updates, there is no problem.

It just loses plug-in support (beside the ones included with the program), which don't think for a moment that it is anything like Chrome or Firefox. There is no community behind it, it is really user specific. You have to make your own for your specific needs or find it on some website, import it, and hope for the best. The app used to have a plugin manager, but due to lack of interest, they remove it officially.  And looking at reviews of the Store version of Notepad++, beside 1 person, no one cares, and has a rating of 4.6 out of 5.

 

Quote

• And things like Office have been discontinued and won't get feature updates like the win32 version will. Just because an UWP version exists doesn't mean it is actively being developed or get the same prioritization as the proper version does.

Heumm no. Mobile version is in support mode, no longer active development. Such for Windows 10 mobile users.

If you have Windows 10 S, you can get the full, desktop version, of Office:

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-install-microsoft-office-apps-windows-10-s-devices

 

 

[LAwLz]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

Anything positive that is being said about Windows or Microsoft, you say that it sounds like a Microsoft employee. 

Nope. There are several people on this forum which are or have mostly been posting positive things about Microsoft, and I don't say they are Microsoft employees.

 

 

3 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Well people don't give a Store a look, and so they don't know what is inside. 

Is that really your rational for bringing up things that are in the store? Because that makes you sound even more like a Microsoft PR employee.

"I better inform people what is in the store or else they won't know!".

 

 

8 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

It has all the features. Fork or not, as long as its updates, there is no problem.

No it doesn't have all features. Just read the description if you don't believe me.

Quote

All functionality remains the same however there are some features that dont work due to store policy, or are limited (like some file associations, and the run options).

On top of that the unofficial version has some issues (mainly plugins related) and it is also lagging behind in terms of versions.

 

 

15 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Heumm no. Mobile version is in support mode, no longer active development. Such for Windows 10 mobile users. 

If you have Windows 10 S, you just get the "Get Office" app, login and download (assuming you have subscription for, else subscribe, and then download).

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-install-microsoft-office-apps-windows-10-s-devices

A while ago, Microsoft made a public statement that:

Quote

We are currently prioritizing development for the iOS and Android versions of our apps; and on Windows, we are prioritizing Win32 and web versions of our apps

That is to say, that to me means that the UWP version (that is to say, real UWP and not a repackaged win32 program) is no longer getting support.

Remember, we're talking about an ARM tablet here, and Microsoft have said that they will focus on developing the win32 program. Sure you can still get the program for your WoA device, but it will run ineffectively because it's translating x86 instructions to ARM instructions, rather than running them natively.

[SansVarnic]

I see nothing wrong with this device, its samsung equivalent to the Surface go or close there to it. 

I see more naysayers here complaining about lack of raw power/performance rather then the device meeting the necessary performance for a specific need. Its like buying a Porsche or i7 Surface vs a compact car or Surface Go to drive down to the grocery store.... lets calm down a bit.

[Drak3]

25 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

I see nothing wrong with this device, its samsung equivalent to the Surface go or close there to it. 

I see more naysayers here complaining about lack of raw power/performance rather then the device meeting the necessary performance for a specific need. Its like buying a Porsche or i7 Surface vs a compact car or Surface Go to drive down to the grocery store.... lets calm down a bit.

$1,000. I can get an 8GB i5 Surface Pro 6 for the same price, less if I don't get the keyboard, and realistically, battery life will be maybe an hour worse. These PoS ARM devices have yet to deliver on the promise of battery life, always overpromising.

[Master Delta Chief]

51 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

I see nothing wrong with this device, its samsung equivalent to the Surface go or close there to it. 

I see more naysayers here complaining about lack of raw power/performance rather then the device meeting the necessary performance for a specific need. Its like buying a Porsche or i7 Surface vs a compact car or Surface Go to drive down to the grocery store.... lets calm down a bit.

There might be nothing wrong with the device itself, but the price tag behind it is just blatantly appalling and as I said in my previous post, Samsung isn't the only guilty manufacture out there to set prices very high for 'lower' spec devices. You're basically paying premium with this, that's all. Just paying for the 'features' it has, not necessarily for the performance (Which I think is more important than let's say, your LTE feature).

[SansVarnic]

@Drak3

@Master Delta Chief

I specifically stayed out of the price portion of the conversation as it wasnt the point i was making but yes its overpriced.

[LAwLz]

13 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

@Drak3

@Master Delta Chief

I specifically stayed out of the price portion of the conversation as it wasnt the point i was making but yes its overpriced.

You can't just ignore the price though.

You yourself made the comparison between a Porsche and a compact car. If VW made the new Polo cost as much as a Porsche 911 then you can bet your ass people would complain too. Saying that "the Polo is fast enough for everyday usage" does not justify the price.

 

What is up with people and completely ignoring the price of this device when trying to justify its existence? It has no place existing as long as the price is so ridiculous. Cut the price in half and it might be a bit appealing, but even then I'd hesitate to recommend it because of the processor and Windows 10 S.

 

 

The hardware is fairly low-end in some regards, such as CPU performance. We're talking like Intel Atom tier performance.

The software is crap because it's locked down to just the Microsoft Store, can only run Edge, can only use Bing as the search engine, and so on.

The price is ridiculous and I'd even say the Macbook Air is better value.

[D13H4RD]

2 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

I see nothing wrong with this device, its samsung equivalent to the Surface go or close there to it. 

I see more naysayers here complaining about lack of raw power/performance rather then the device meeting the necessary performance for a specific need. Its like buying a Porsche or i7 Surface vs a compact car or Surface Go to drive down to the grocery store.... lets calm down a bit.

It's the price 

 

$1000 nets you a really decent laptop/tablet hybrid. $1000 for a frankly limited machine is way too much. 

 

It's hard to ignore the price because the value proposition is just preposterously poor. 

 

It's more akin to having a Nissan Sentra cost as much as a GT-R. Why should I pay that much for a Sentra when a better option exists for the same money? 

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

You can't just ignore the price though.

Yes you can, as that was not the topic.

The topic was that 4GB should not exists because it is completely inadequate. POINT.

 

[GoodBytes]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Nope. There are several people on this forum which are or have mostly been posting positive things about Microsoft, and I don't say they are Microsoft employees.

You probably missed them. I have to bring everything up, because I can need to cover potential replies.

 

Quote

Is that really your rational for bringing up things that are in the store? Because that makes you sound even more like a Microsoft PR employee.

"I better inform people what is in the store or else they won't know!".

Out of argument I see...

 

Quote

No it doesn't have all features. Just read the description if you don't believe me.

Yes, plugins, file association (which can be set manually, not automatically due to policy), and startup (again, policy). It states:

Quote

This is an (unofficial) Open Source fork of the original Open Source Notepad++ (https://notepad-plus-plus.org/) to get notepad++ in the store. All functionality remains the same however there are some features that dont work due to store policy, or are limited (like some file associations, and the run options). This is a published centennial application. All Credit to the original Notepad++ team, all the heavy lifting of creating an awesome app was done by them. This is currently Notepad++ version 7.5.8 (updated in this update) Code and changes required for publishing is located here: https://github.com/NightRi-se/notepad-plus-plus Known issues: 1. Default Plugins can not be removed or updated 2. Custom plugins CAN NOT be loaded AT ALL on Windows 10 S (on other versions of windows, it is possible to load them from %appdata% - but ensure your plugin version matches your build version [x86/x64]).

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/unofficial-notepad/9plhc123mqwt#activetab=pivot:overviewtab

 

So the key feature here is plugins, which isn't a concern for most people. Those who would need plugins probably would need other software that they can't get from the Store, even if the developer wanted too. (example: Developer - Visual Studio)

 

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On top of that the unofficial version has some issues (mainly plugins related) and it is also lagging behind in terms of versions.

"SOME" issue.. you mean 1 main limitation...

 

Quote

A while ago, Microsoft made a public statement that:

That is to say, that to me means that the UWP version (that is to say, real UWP and not a repackaged win32 program) is no longer getting support.

Remember, we're talking about an ARM tablet here, and Microsoft have said that they will focus on developing the win32 program. Sure you can still get the program for your WoA device, but it will run ineffectively because it's translating x86 instructions to ARM instructions, rather than running them natively.

As stated, Office already has a Touch Mode which is enabled by default if you are on a tablet or convertible device.

UWP version of Office was designed initially for the Universal aspect of the app. 1 app for all Windows powered platform. Microsoft strategy has changed due to lack of growth on its mobile OS which has been discontinued. Windows 10 S still has Office, the full Office, the Win32 Office.  I showed you how to get it, with a step-by-step tutorial.