iPhone XS Not Charging

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Again, not everyone is going to turn on their phone just to get it to actually charge

Like I said, the issue isn’t that significant in the grand scheme of things, but it definitely is a problem and will be fixed. 

[Drak3]

44 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Not everyone has a wireless charger nor is interested in wireless charging. Sure, that works, but when I have to pay for an extra charger to circumvent a pretty large software bug, it tells me that they didn't really check for what should not have happened.

Especially if I owned a $1100 phone.

iPhones are just the Bugattis of the phone world:

The speed only matters in short burst and only in benchmarks.

It's a great experience for the 11 minutes that its working.

[Curufinwe_wins]

14 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Like I said, the issue isn’t that significant in the grand scheme of things, but it definitely is a problem and will be fixed. 

It's one of the most significant software bugs you could ever have. It directly and continuously impedes the usability of the device, and requires near constant user intervention OR a non-standard hardware work around to deal with in the meantime

 

 

Also Apple STILL hasn't even made acknowledgement of it. Yes statistically speaking... it will be fixed... but this is already too long for any company for this sort of issue, let alone one trying to be premium.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2018/10/01/apple-iphone-xs-max-battery-life-charging-problem-arrogance-mistake-error/#3212444564ac

 

This is actually a pretty good representative of the bigger issue.

 

 

NOTE: This issue has been well-known (at least on Apple's 'forum') for at least 8 days. Seriously.

[Curufinwe_wins]

Side topic... But Apple's antenna solution in these two phones (XS and XMax) are also apparently dramatically sub par, and not in any way that can be addressed by using more power amplification (already at maximum +2dbm utilization) (or any other software change).

 

https://www.wiwavelength.com/2018/09/iphone-xs-and-xs-max-mostly-fail-to.html

 

Quote

But first to nip in the bud one potential conspiracy theory, Apple's decision to forgo Qualcomm this year and source all cellular modems from Intel is not responsible for the RF power output limitations in the new iPhone models.  The cellular baseband modem is separate from and well upstream of the amplifiers that generate the conducted power and antennas that generate the radiated power being measured in lab testing.

 

Furthermore, conducted power is not the issue.  The standard conducted power target of 200 mW (23 dBm) is +/- 2 dB.  And Apple is using the +2 dB margin to enhance its figures, pushing 250-320 mW (24-25 dBm) conducted power across many included bands.  This extends to band 41 HPUE, which has a standard conducted power target of 400 mW (26 dBm).  Again using the +2 dB margin, Apple has upped that ante to 500 mW (27 dBm).  That inflated conducted power is fine.  But bear in mind that it assists only in transmission, never in reception.  Plus, it also can be used to mask some antenna shortcomings.

 

 

Real-world testing will take more time, but there are (tbf as always) already increasing reports of wifi and cellular service issues with the new phones.

[DrMacintosh]

33 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

But Apple's antenna solution in these two phones (XS and XMax) are also apparently dramatically sub par,

You can thank Qualcomm for that. Apple was forced to use Intel modems seeing as Qualcomm thinks Apple infringed on their patients and is trying to sue them for IP theft. 

[Curufinwe_wins]

3 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

You can thank Qualcomm for that. Apple was forced to use Intel modems seeing as Qualcomm thinks Apple infringed on their patients and is trying to sue them for IP theft. 

Read the quote. It is antenna, not modem. 

 

Quote

But first to nip in the bud one potential conspiracy theory, Apple's decision to forgo Qualcomm this year and source all cellular modems from Intel is not responsible for the RF power output limitations in the new iPhone models.  The cellular baseband modem is separate from and well upstream of the amplifiers that generate the conducted power and antennas that generate the radiated power being measured in lab testing.

 

Furthermore, conducted power is not the issue.  The standard conducted power target of 200 mW (23 dBm) is +/- 2 dB.  And Apple is using the +2 dB margin to enhance its figures, pushing 250-320 mW (24-25 dBm) conducted power across many included bands.  This extends to band 41 HPUE, which has a standard conducted power target of 400 mW (26 dBm).  Again using the +2 dB margin, Apple has upped that ante to 500 mW (27 dBm).  That inflated conducted power is fine.  But bear in mind that it assists only in transmission, never in reception.  Plus, it also can be used to mask some antenna shortcomings.

 

Apple did infringe on their tech, already found in violation.

 

 

 

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Read the quote. It is antenna, not modem. 

The antenna and modem go hand in hand. Different modems require different antenna designs. Intel’s modem required another band otherwise it would be worse than it is now. 

[Curufinwe_wins]

7 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

The antenna and modem go hand in hand. Different modems require different antenna designs. Intel’s modem required another band otherwise it would be worse than it is now. 

That isn't how it works.

 

Apple dual sourced last year's Intel and Qualcomm modems on the X. Via this test, they preform identically. Regardless of that, this is a significant performance regression. The IPhone XR, using also an Intel Modem, doesn't seem to have the same issues, because it doesn't have the bad antenna design.

 

 

Now if you want to say that using a 4x4 MIMO antenna design is the reason for the issue... well I might squabble, but it isn't directly refutable. The intel modem however can do both, and Apple's attempt at a 2x2 MIMO antenna seems notably better on the XR. Even if not "amazing" or anything.

 

In which case, the obvious statement is that Apple should have not pushed a technology they weren't ready to implement properly. It's spec-list padding and best case padding at the cost of realistic real-world performance. Obviously that isn't only an Apple problem, but it isn't common to see on antenna designs. yet.

[DrMacintosh]

8 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Obviously that isn't only an Apple problem, but it isn't common to see on antenna designs. yet.

The bottom line is people use WiFi more than anything and most carriers can’t even provide the maximum bandwidth for each phone anyway.

 

Most people that use their phones won’t need more than ~20mbps. Steaming video and music isn’t that demanding. As long as the antenna provides a satisfying user experience, the antenna design isn’t flawed or bad. 

 

And if you think the iPhone Xs and Xs Max have bad antenna designs I think you need some context of the history of bad antenna designs. Namely every phone that was around when the iPhone 4 was. 

 

[Curufinwe_wins]

23 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

snip

 

They have bad antenna design compared to other phones they are competing with. They have bad antenna design compared to previous models of iPhones from the last 3 generations at least. (I'm sorry, you're holding it wrong.)

 

 

The bottom line is that bad antenna amplification does the most harm when it's needed most. Any old antenna does good enough right next to the router, and I'm sure this 4x4 does much better right there compared to previous models. The issue becomes what happens when the signal isn't perfect, WIFI or Cellular. This phone is likely to struggle compared to other devices, purely because it's antenna gain is crap.

 

 

Seriously, there isn't any reason or point to defending it. At best we will have to wait and see how many people complain of issues with it, and if it becomes a big enough deal for people to care. Either way objectively, it has subpar antenna gain.

[DrMacintosh]

3 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

This phone is going to struggle notably compared to other devices, purely because it's antenna gain is crap.

It’s really not going to struggle. There is no metric or data to show that the quality of iPhone Xs and Xs Max owners are not going to say

”wow my iPhone Xs data is soooo slow compared to the Note 9” 

 

They aren’t going to say that because in the field, it’s simply not true. They are going to blame the carrier for having weak cell tower deployment before they blame the phone if there ever is an issue. 

[Curufinwe_wins]

7 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

It’s really not going to struggle. There is no metric or data to show that the quality of iPhone Xs and Xs Max owners are not going to say

”wow my iPhone Xs is soooo slow compared to the Note 9” 

 

They aren’t going to say that because in the field, it’s simply not true. 

Quote from random dude Bill on one of the comments on the linked articles (anecdotal evidence ofc).

 

Quote

You can completely dismiss the data blow in my post because it's anecdotal speed testing, but it showed me why this phone is going back to Apple after reading this article and understanding a fix is not likely possible through software (which sucks, this is the 1st phone I've been excited about in a very long time, XS Max 64GB

On my desk, 25 feet from a R7000 router

Ipad2015(190 Down, 15.2 Up_
Iphone 8Plus(152 Down, 21.1 Up)
XS Max 64GB (23.8Down 11.7Up)

 

And the idea that people don't notice when phones have worse reception is also bullshit. Both my parents swapped from two different 5S's because inside their house, they couldn't hold a call without the call failing, or breaking up. At the same time as this was finally being done with (my parents are too stubborn for their own good) after many complaints from them and the people they have calls with, my mom bumped up to a 7 and had the issues disappear (even without wifi calling), while her work phone (a 6) has intermittent issues to this day that she bitches about and then swaps to calls from her laptop), and that was the action that let me convince my father to try an S7 (well a couple of years before my mom gave up), and that phone likewise had zero issues with it.

 

It was so bad that I and others had to tell them to get off the phone and call using the other person's device if they were too lazy to walk outside where both phones worked better.

[Curufinwe_wins]

Oh. @DrMacintosh sorry for the abhorrent grammar and run-ons in the above post. cba fixing it though.

[D13H4RD]

9 hours ago, wasab said:

I can fork the Android AOSP from source code and port the latest Android P to my phone if OEM doesn't provide support, can iOS do that? I can delete any part of the OS and add any part I want to it, creating a custom ROM that fits my needs, can iOS do that? 

 

You are at the mercy of apple to provide bug fixes and functionalities. That is just sad. 

Go on XDA, you will find plenty third party  custom roms that are much more updated than the ones from OEM. 

 

Worst a phone is a useless phone and useless phone is useless when it lacks basic functionality like file browser. 

I think he’s specifically talking about the Google Pixel line

[D13H4RD]

Honestly though, after reading all of the antenna issues, it’s pretty close to being a deal-breaker.

 

The reason is that my cellular reception is never perfect. While in metropolitan areas, I get full bars, my reception is usually 1/2 to 3/4 of that. Bear in mind that this is even the case with my old Moto Z, which had excellent antennas and radios (it’s a Motorola product after all).

 

Really curious if the XR doesn’t suffer from these.

 

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

iPhones are just the Bugattis of the phone world:

The speed only matters in short burst and only in benchmarks.

It's a great experience for the 11 minutes that its working.

Pretty sure Bugattis run out of fuel before they start to fall apart.

 

Not like they will because a lot of them are stored in garages, never to be driven.

 

You’re probably looking at Fiat or the older Alfa Romeos

[Curufinwe_wins]

3 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

snip

yeah the XR should have a better antenna. At least that is what the FCC documentation testing suggests. Partially because it's optimized for a much simpler 2x2 MIMO.

 

https://www.wiwavelength.com/2018/09/iphone-xr-trades-4x4-mimo-for-greater.html

[AnonymousGuy]

On 9/30/2018 at 5:35 AM, Trixanity said:

False information. Or at least implied false information.

 

You can push an Android update out at will. Refusing to support a device isn't the same as being unable to. However you can bet most flagships would get an OTA update ASAP. 

 

Distraction failed.

Oh god no, Android is horrible in this way.  Buy a flagship Galaxy phone and you get 1 update, and it takes 1+ year from Google releasing it before it filters through Samsung and then through the carrier.   You have to own a Pixel to have a remotely comparable experience to iOS, and even then you get 2 years of updates and 3 years of security.  The iPhone 5S came out in 2013 and got iOS 12 released last month.

[Curufinwe_wins]

19 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Oh god no, Android is horrible in this way.  Buy a flagship Galaxy phone and you get 1 update, and it takes 1+ year from Google releasing it before it filters through Samsung and then through the carrier.   You have to own a Pixel to have a remotely comparable experience to iOS, and even then you get 2 years of updates and 3 years of security.  The iPhone 5S came out in 2013 and got iOS 12 released last month.

I mean it isn't exactly close to release date... but S7 and similar did get Oreo as well. And while an unpopular opinion... I'd rather not get the update as long as everything is working the same way it did when I started. As opposed to both Apple (famously) and Google (less well known, but it still happens) ending up neutering devices with operating system "upgrades".

 

And since the Play Store lets you keep using apps (and simply won't update to an unsupported version) even if on an older operating system, there isn't the forced update into forced upgrade cycle that occurs too often with Apple. I have similarly aged Nook and iPad, both out of original support range by a good margin, but the Nook applications all work still, something I can't say for the iPad unfortunately.

 

Either way though, critical security updates come rather quickly even if you aren't staying on the latest OS.

 

 

In some ways it is the constant argument about windows 10, flipped. It is a tradeoff for sure, and for less... aware users... forced updates are probably for the best.

 

 

EDIT: We all know this dead horse... Sorry for kicking it.

[DrMacintosh]

1 hour ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Honestly though, after reading all of the antenna issues

Apparently there is a possibility that there is a software bug in iOS 12 causing issues. Personally I only care about the XR. The Xs and Xs Max could fail as far as I'm concerned. Those phones cost too much anyway. 

[Trixanity]

3 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Oh god no, Android is horrible in this way.  Buy a flagship Galaxy phone and you get 1 update, and it takes 1+ year from Google releasing it before it filters through Samsung and then through the carrier.   You have to own a Pixel to have a remotely comparable experience to iOS, and even then you get 2 years of updates and 3 years of security.  The iPhone 5S came out in 2013 and got iOS 12 released last month.

Either you don't read my post properly or you're claiming Samsung wouldn't patch a flagship device that couldn't charge without a work around. 

 

It isn't the same to update the system framework as it is to patch critical bugs in an existing base. Besides your claim is generally wrong considering Samsung does monthly security updates.

 

So all in all another false assertion shot down. Keep 'em coming.

[Quadriplegic]

4 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

today in slash-ass theater:

 

Much innovation, such energy safe, WOW

[Drak3]

6 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Not like they will because a lot of them are stored in garages, never to be driven.

Bugattis are bought to be driven. Not to go from A to B, just to be driven. When they're in the garage, it's likely because they're under maintenance.

[D13H4RD]

17 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Bugattis are bought to be driven. Not to go from A to B, just to be driven. When they're in the garage, it's likely because they're under maintenance.

I mean, I’d drive one.

 

I don’t like being one of those guys who buys a car only to keep it in a fancy garage, never to see asphalt 

[Master Delta Chief]

19 hours ago, wasab said:

I can fork the Android AOSP from source code and port the latest Android P to my phone if OEM doesn't provide support, can iOS do that? I can delete any part of the OS and add any part I want to it, creating a custom ROM that fits my needs, can iOS do that? 

 

You are at the mercy of apple to provide bug fixes and functionalities. That is just sad. 

Go on XDA, you will find plenty third party  custom roms that are much more updated than the ones from OEM. 

 

Worst a phone is a useless phone and useless phone is useless when it lacks basic functionality like file browser. 

Personally, I don't think custom ROMS are always that reliable (unless you're using one from a known developer/group) and you have to check whether the device actually has ROMS available on XDA or any other known source in the first place (Most of the time you'll find something). Sure, you can create your own custom ROM, but not everyone is gonna do that, especially if they're not specialized in it. It may sound 'easy', but in reality it isn't. I currently use a Moto G5 and still am on Android 7.0. It's a shame how a known OEM suddenly changed their update program (Thanks Lenovo...). Regardless, if you find a custom ROM, you still need to make sure you follow the right steps and what not so your phone doesn't 'Brick'. 

[Ashleyyyy]

On 9/29/2018 at 4:56 PM, DrMacintosh said:

On an unrelated note my iPhone 6s Plus is a 2018 flagship now  

what do you mean?