Apple plans to kill off 2010 and 2011 Mac Support with macOS 10.14 Mojave*

[niculw]

4 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

still have a compaq laptop from 2006, and a 17" macbook pro from 2007. One is forever stuck at Yosemite, the other is running Ubuntu 18.04

Ive dual booted ubuntu. Why dont you just install it if you dont like yosimite? 

[suicidalfranco]

2 hours ago, niculw said:

Ive dual booted ubuntu. Why dont you just install it if you dont like yosimite? 

not the point i was making

My point was shut those claiming that only Macs can last long and you should feel honoured that Apple gave you a whoping 7 years of upgrades.

Also just want to had that that compaq came with vista, got upgraded to 7, upgraded to 8.1, downgraded to 10, and upgraded to Ubuntu from 16,04 to 18.04

6 hours ago, Cheezdoodlez said:

And I'm guessing the evil Apple overlords are stopping you from putting ze bionic beaver on your macbook?

nah, just sentimental value of the days when i used to love that OS line.

[Guest]

On 6/6/2018 at 2:56 AM, Drak3 said:

The only Mojave relayed news worth caring about are dark theme and 4x eGPU capability.

Running Mojave since a few days ago. A few cool things i've noticed:

- Renamed 'Trash' to 'Bin'

- Dark theme is super, super cool. 

- New 'Dynamic' wallpapers change time of day in scenery to time of day in real life

- HomeKit App, which works great and syncs with iCloud

- Stocks App, which for some reason also needs iCloud. 

- Voice Memos App, which does not need iCloud. 

- Icons and visuals look much better, much crisper and brighter on my retina display (its quite a big difference)

- New App Store

- New Dock layout (New Dock)

- New Software Update in System Preferences

 

Just the stuff that really pops up. Only major bug so far is i'm having trouble with full-screen YT videos. Other than that everything is very fluid and crisp. Its a very nice update. 

 

I should also point out that there is a very minor increment in performance from the Late 2011 to Mid-2012 MacBook Pros - and you do need a performance bump to be able to run Mojave a bit smoother I feel. 

[DrMacintosh]

1 hour ago, RorzNZ said:

Stocks App, which for some reason also needs iCloud. 

The stocks App integrates with Apple News which syncs your stories with iCloud. That's why it wants you iCloud credentials. 

[DrMacintosh]

Also just something to remember is that these Macs that will be losing support will still be able to run High Sierra until they die and Apple should still be releasing security updates a while after these machines lose support for any new macOS versions. 

[Guest]

On 6/9/2018 at 3:09 PM, DrMacintosh said:

The stocks App integrates with Apple News which syncs your stories with iCloud. That's why it wants you iCloud credentials. 

I wonder where Apple News went. Hopefully it will be available as a widget in the sidebar. 

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, RorzNZ said:

I wonder where Apple News went. Hopefully it will be available as a widget in the sidebar. 

It should be in the Mojave Beta. If it's not that could be a bug worth reporting. 

[Guest]

On 6/9/2018 at 3:34 PM, DrMacintosh said:

It should be in the Mojave Beta. If it's not that could be a bug worth reporting. 

I'm running the developer preview. No news app here or on iOS 12. Haven't installed WatchOS 5 yet, but will ASAP (reports of crashed made Apple pull the update), so i'll check there then. 

[RedRound2]

On 6/7/2018 at 12:26 PM, Christophe Corazza said:

Or so they claim...

 

But then replacing the battery fixes the issue, so...

[Commodus]

A highly relevant piece: the latest The Talk Show podcast has a chat with Apple's Greg Joswiak (starting around the 38-minute mark if you want to skip ahead) talking about allegations that the company purposefully slows things down to prompt upgrades for its devices.

 

Now, you'd expect Apple to deny slowing things down on purpose, but the conversation suggests that no, really, they aren't trying to force upgrades.  Joswiak pointed out that it's ludicrous to suggest that Apple would convince you to upgrade with a "sh*tty experience."  And that's a good point: we don't expect people to buy a new car from the same brand if their old one conveniently breaks down the moment the warranty expires, so why do we think an iPhone 6S owner isn't going to pick up a Galaxy S9 if their existing device slows to a crawl?

 

Same thing applies to the Mac.  It's a bit ridiculous to suggest that Apple would bog down macOS or cut off support purely to drive new sales.  You'd probably go and buy a Windows PC if Apple annoyed you enough.  If there's a problem, it's that Apple is sometimes too eager to draw a line in the sand for the sake of introducing a new feature.  That's a blessing and a curse for Windows: Microsoft's determination to offer the widest support possible is great for someone with an 8-year-old PC, but it's terrible for advancing the feature set or convincing people to move on to new releases.  It's still somewhat telling that Windows 7 has more usage share than Windows 10.

[79wjd]

51 minutes ago, Commodus said:

A highly relevant piece: the latest The Talk Show podcast has a chat with Apple's Greg Joswiak (starting around the 38-minute mark if you want to skip ahead) talking about allegations that the company purposefully slows things down to prompt upgrades for its devices.

 

Now, you'd expect Apple to deny slowing things down on purpose, but the conversation suggests that no, really, they aren't trying to force upgrades.  Joswiak pointed out that it's ludicrous to suggest that Apple would convince you to upgrade with a "sh*tty experience."  And that's a good point: we don't expect people to buy a new car from the same brand if their old one conveniently breaks down the moment the warranty expires, so why do we think an iPhone 6S owner isn't going to pick up a Galaxy S9 if their existing device slows to a crawl?

 

Same thing applies to the Mac.  It's a bit ridiculous to suggest that Apple would bog down macOS or cut off support purely to drive new sales.  You'd probably go and buy a Windows PC if Apple annoyed you enough.  If there's a problem, it's that Apple is sometimes too eager to draw a line in the sand for the sake of introducing a new feature.  That's a blessing and a curse for Windows: Microsoft's determination to offer the widest support possible is great for someone with an 8-year-old PC, but it's terrible for advancing the feature set or convincing people to move on to new releases.  It's still somewhat telling that Windows 7 has more usage share than Windows 10.

Yes and no. You can inconvenience customers with a bad experience and they will still continue to buy your products if the experience isn't too bad or if their other experience is significantly worse.

 

That being said, I don't think they're intentionally going out of their way to hinder performance -- rather they just don't bother putting in the time or money for heavy optimization as it's just cheaper and easier to throw more power at the problem rather than dev time -- its the same reason why everything computer related gets more demanding over time. 

[Steve F Fox]

So, that will be my last apple computer ever too,

So tired of their lack of support now!

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

Yes and no. You can inconvenience customers with a bad experience and they will still continue to buy your products if the experience isn't too bad or if their other experience is significantly worse.

 

That being said, I don't think they're intentionally going out of their way to hinder performance -- rather they just don't bother putting in the time or money for heavy optimization as it's just cheaper and easier to throw more power at the problem rather than dev time -- its the same reason why everything computer related gets more demanding over time. 

That's pretty much it, although I'd go so far as to say that they sometimes just didn't have much.  If you're on a yearly dev cycle, you don't have much time to go back and refine your code to speed up a four-year-old phone or an eight-year-old computer.

 

I like to embrace a spin on Occam's Razor: the boring answer is most often the correct one.  People like to imagine Apple execs cackling as they intentionally turn your 2010 MacBook into a paperweight, but the boring reality is that supporting and optimizing for that MacBook would take too long or would hold back a huge number of people with slightly newer machines.

[79wjd]

8 minutes ago, Commodus said:

That's pretty much it, although I'd go so far as to say that they sometimes just didn't have much.  If you're on a yearly dev cycle, you don't have much time to go back and refine your code to speed up a four-year-old phone or an eight-year-old computer.

 

I like to embrace a spin on Occam's Razor: the boring answer is most often the correct one.  People like to imagine Apple execs cackling as they intentionally turn your 2010 MacBook into a paperweight, but the boring reality is that supporting and optimizing for that MacBook would take too long or would hold back a huge number of people with slightly newer machines.

Again yes/no. Some of the optimization could negatively impact newer hardware, but more more often than not it's just a question of cleaning up code/doing things more efficiently/getting rid of bloat -- which would help all hardware across the board. It's just that it's not worth the time or effort to do such things given the pace that hardware improves. 

[Wh0_Am_1]

On 6/5/2018 at 8:51 AM, AluminiumTech said:

Apple has announced macOS 10.14 Mojave at WWDC 2018 which is coming out later this fall.

 

iMore reports that macOS 10.14 will drop support for almost all 2010 and all 2011 Macs.

 

The notable exception being the 2010 Mac Pro. 

 

So yeah, 2010 and 2011 MacBooKs, MacBook Airs and MacBookPros and iMacs will not receive macOS 10.14. 

 

The requirements are as follows:

 

As it is right now, if you want to run macOS 10.14 Mojave when it comes out, you'll need a 2012 Mac or in some cases a lot newer.

 

 

So yeah, hopefully this means prices of used Macs will come down quite a bit since only the 2012 or newer models should be sought after. It's also kind of chilling and scary that Apple has dropped both 2010 and 2011 Macs from support considering Apple's past track record of supporting macs. This could be a sign Apple is trying to increase the rate at which they are killing off support for devices.

 

Source: https://www.imore.com/macos-1014-faq

 

Edit:

Apparently the reasoning behind dropping support for those devices is lack of Metal support.

 

 

https://9to5mac.com/2018/06/04/macos-10-14-mojave-supported-macs/

Well they got to find some way to convince all of those Apple user to update to the latest Macs because at least what I have seen from the specs a high end iMac from 2011 isn't all that slower relatively speaking due to the fact that in that time the power of the GPU only increased by 450% meanwhile the load on that GPU has more than quadrupled due to the upgrade from QHD display to a 5k one also a 7700k for the high end model is only 50% faster than the 2700k.

P.S. a mid 2011 Imac had a 6970M for it's GPU, and the latest one is powered by an rx 480.

 

[Guest]

On 6/11/2018 at 7:41 AM, Commodus said:

A highly relevant piece: the latest The Talk Show podcast has a chat with Apple's Greg Joswiak (starting around the 38-minute mark if you want to skip ahead) talking about allegations that the company purposefully slows things down to prompt upgrades for its devices.

 

Now, you'd expect Apple to deny slowing things down on purpose, but the conversation suggests that no, really, they aren't trying to force upgrades.  Joswiak pointed out that it's ludicrous to suggest that Apple would convince you to upgrade with a "sh*tty experience."  And that's a good point: we don't expect people to buy a new car from the same brand if their old one conveniently breaks down the moment the warranty expires, so why do we think an iPhone 6S owner isn't going to pick up a Galaxy S9 if their existing device slows to a crawl?

 

Same thing applies to the Mac.  It's a bit ridiculous to suggest that Apple would bog down macOS or cut off support purely to drive new sales.  You'd probably go and buy a Windows PC if Apple annoyed you enough.  If there's a problem, it's that Apple is sometimes too eager to draw a line in the sand for the sake of introducing a new feature.  That's a blessing and a curse for Windows: Microsoft's determination to offer the widest support possible is great for someone with an 8-year-old PC, but it's terrible for advancing the feature set or convincing people to move on to new releases.  It's still somewhat telling that Windows 7 has more usage share than Windows 10.

Theres no real evidence that Apple slows down devices to prompt for an upgrade. It's all speculation (wrong speculation). 

More on the contrary they make sure that it works on their older computers, and High Sierra will get support for a long time still - and be useable for far longer. 

It's just they need to make a choice each year to provide support for older computers. It is just a coincidence that 2010 and 2011 Macs contain relatively the same hardware. There have been bigger times where they cut off support for older Macs, such as PPC, 64-bit only support etc. It's just necessary sometimes. 

 

Mojave at the moment runs really well, everything is smooth and looks really great. It's a nice jump from High Sierra. Windows doesn't even compare to Mojave at this point. 

 

[DogKnight]

Its a pity because I still consider my 2011 iMac quite capable. Obviously its a little sluggish these days, but I don't use it for gaming so it does the trick just fine.

- i7 2600 

- 16gb RAM

- Radeon 6970m 2gb

- 500gb SSD + 4TB SSHD

- Thunderbolt dock for USB 3

 

I am holding off replacing it until Apple bring out the new 'modular' Mac Pro. If it's to my liking and not exponentially expensive (obviously it will come with some Apple tax, I don't want this to spark a dollar value comparison), then hopefully it will provide a suitable upgrade path. Can't bring myself to buy a computer I can't repair / upgrade at all. I can accept certain limitations but RAM, Storage and in a pro machine, GPU, should be user up-gradable. Then I should be able to get a Mac that will last me at least another 5 years. There is just not any current hardware offering I am interested in. And while I use both platforms, I have had a mac as my primary computer since Mac OS 7 days. 

[DrMacintosh]

On 6/11/2018 at 9:21 PM, RorzNZ said:

Windows doesn't even compare to Mojave at this point. 

It’s kinda sad, I’d love to see Windows 10 become like macOS Mojave but Microsoft just doesn’t seem to be updating the OS in the direction that people want it to go in. 

 

The big updates for Windows 10 recently are just sprinkles of meh features that nobody really wanted....

[GoldenLag]

1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

It’s kinda sad, I’d love to see Windows 10 become like macOS Mojave but Microsoft just doesn’t seem to be updating the OS in the direction that people want it to go in. 

 

The big updates for Windows 10 recently are just sprinkles of meh features that nobody really wanted....

The new timeline in the "win button" + tab is quite nice when working on projects. Other than that there havent actually been any big jumps in features. Still love win 10 atm though

[suicidalfranco]

 

[captain_to_fire]

7 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

 

I want to know the temperature of that P4 since I saw 50 to 75% CPU usage just by playing a 480p YouTube video

[suicidalfranco]

1 minute ago, captain_to_fire said:

I want to know the temperature of that P4 since I saw 50 to 75% CPU usage just by playing a 480p YouTube video

proly lower than a 2010 macbook

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, suicidalfranco said:

proly lower than a 2010 macbook

Yeah but it's a P4 with a Pentium D which is much worse

 

[suicidalfranco]

35 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

Yeah but it's a P4 with a Pentium D which is much worse

 

did you even watch it?

[captain_to_fire]

21 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

did you even watch it?

I did. He made some follow up videos afterwards.

Edited June 17, 2018 by captain_to_fire