overclocking memory issue

[Srnewbee]

Computer Spec:

Zotac z77-tx bios A22P0 March/2013

CPU: 3770k

Ram: G.SKill Trident X 2666 8gb x2 @ 1600 9-9-9-24-1N

SSD: Samsung EVO 850 1TB

 

I just got a g.skill trident X ram certified at 2666 last night and I was super excited about getting it to run at 2666. From the motherboard's manual, the motherboard is certified to run at 1333, 1600 and 2133. It also states overclockable to 2666. I first did a hard reset on my bio. I went in to bios and I enabled XMP profile setting and the computer failed to POST. At first, I thought it was the voltage setting, so I put it back to 1600 9-9-9-24-1n (this is stable) and only increased the voltage to 1.65. Afterwards, I reset my computer went back into the bios and then enable XMP again. I failed to post. I went into the bios again I set everything manually, voltage, frequency and timing (according to what AIDA 64 told me about my ram's XMP) It failed to post again. After that, I tried every single setting above 1600 and it all failed to post! I can only boot at 1333 or 1600. I mean what the heck! Even the box clearly says 2133 supported! I wanted to increase the IMC voltage, but either I can't find it or its not in the bios. Help me~~!!! I want to run this at 2666.  

 

 

 

[Jurrunio]

What if you just set the frequency to 2666 without using XMP and leave the timings to auto? That should use looser timings and increase the chance of booting.

 

IMC voltage is also called VTT, For Ivy, better not exceed 1.1V

[WkdPaul]

Thread cleaned

[Srnewbee]

3 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

What if you just set the frequency to 2666 without using XMP and leave the timings to auto? That should use looser timings and increase the chance of booting.

 

IMC voltage is also called VTT, For Ivy, better not exceed 1.1V

Thanks for your prompt respoinse. I tried manual 2666 with auto timing at 1.65. I also tried it at 1.75v. Does not work. Is it normal not to find IMC voltage or VTT in the bios? I just cannot find it.

[Srnewbee]

3 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

Thread cleaned

what does this mean?

[Razor Blade]

20 minutes ago, Srnewbee said:

what does this mean?

it is just a clarity marker. When a moderator intervenes to delete or modify posts that are deemed unnecessary, unwanted, trolling, or violate community guidelines as well as possibly posts that may have addressed or responded to said unnecessary posts.

[Jurrunio]

44 minutes ago, Srnewbee said:

Is it normal not to find IMC voltage or VTT in the bios? I just cannot find it.

Probably that's why Zotac doesnt stand in the mobo market now.

[Srnewbee]

21 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

Probably that's why Zotac doesnt stand in the mobo market now.

I guess this means I cannot overclock my memory beyond 1600?

[Jurrunio]

1 minute ago, Srnewbee said:

I guess this means I cannot overclock my memory beyond 1600?

that's what I think

[Srnewbee]

3 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

that's what I think

besides VTT, there are no alternative ways to give more power to your IMC?

[Jurrunio]

1 minute ago, Srnewbee said:

besides VTT, there are no alternative ways to give more power to your IMC?

 these names can vary between motherboards, so it could be called something else in your BIOS

[MageTank]

On 5/25/2018 at 8:18 PM, Srnewbee said:

Computer Spec:

Zotac z77-tx bios A22P0 March/2013

CPU: 3770k

Ram: G.SKill Trident X 2666 8gb x2 @ 1600 9-9-9-24-1N

SSD: Samsung EVO 850 1TB

 

I just got a g.skill trident X ram certified at 2666 last night and I was super excited about getting it to run at 2666. From the motherboard's manual, the motherboard is certified to run at 1333, 1600 and 2133. It also states overclockable to 2666. I first did a hard reset on my bio. I went in to bios and I enabled XMP profile setting and the computer failed to POST. At first, I thought it was the voltage setting, so I put it back to 1600 9-9-9-24-1n (this is stable) and only increased the voltage to 1.65. Afterwards, I reset my computer went back into the bios and then enable XMP again. I failed to post. I went into the bios again I set everything manually, voltage, frequency and timing (according to what AIDA 64 told me about my ram's XMP) It failed to post again. After that, I tried every single setting above 1600 and it all failed to post! I can only boot at 1333 or 1600. I mean what the heck! Even the box clearly says 2133 supported! I wanted to increase the IMC voltage, but either I can't find it or its not in the bios. Help me~~!!! I want to run this at 2666.  

 

 

 

The manual may state an overclock frequency of 2666mhz is possible, but that does not mean it will work with an XMP of 2666. Memory kits use different IC's from different manufacturers that often require different timings for stability. The boards traces may not like the signal requirements of that particular XMP profile. There is also the issue with your CPU's IMC not tolerating the ram speed in it's current configuration. That is to say, if you want 2666mhz, you are likely going to have to do it by hand. This means you are going to need to dial in every primary, secondary and tertiary timing, along with voltages (that particular board doesn't support adjusting the System Agent voltage, so you are going to be handicapped on that front).

 

I personally would not recommend the 2666mhz strap, as it's far too inferior to a tight 2400mhz. I cannot explain why this is on DDR3, but every single DDR3 kit I have ever tested, performed much faster at 2400mhz with completely tightened timings, than 2666 with it's tightest timings. Even sacrificing just 1T on RRSR is enough to cause 2666 to lose any bandwidth advantage over 2400, whilst also having far worse latency.

[Srnewbee]

9 hours ago, MageTank said:

The manual may state an overclock frequency of 2666mhz is possible, but that does not mean it will work with an XMP of 2666. Memory kits use different IC's from different manufacturers that often require different timings for stability. The boards traces may not like the signal requirements of that particular XMP profile. There is also the issue with your CPU's IMC not tolerating the ram speed in it's current configuration. That is to say, if you want 2666mhz, you are likely going to have to do it by hand. This means you are going to need to dial in every primary, secondary and tertiary timing, along with voltages (that particular board doesn't support adjusting the System Agent voltage, so you are going to be handicapped on that front).

 

I personally would not recommend the 2666mhz strap, as it's far too inferior to a tight 2400mhz. I cannot explain why this is on DDR3, but every single DDR3 kit I have ever tested, performed much faster at 2400mhz with completely tightened timings, than 2666 with it's tightest timings. Even sacrificing just 1T on RRSR is enough to cause 2666 to lose any bandwidth advantage over 2400, whilst also having far worse latency.

Thanks for the detailed response! Well right now, my computer fails to post if the frequency is above 1600+. I think the reason is that without upping the VTT, the motherboard simply cannot handle 8gb modules. Is there anyway to up the VTT other then bios setting?

[MageTank]

55 minutes ago, Srnewbee said:

Thanks for the detailed response! Well right now, my computer fails to post if the frequency is above 1600+. I think the reason is that without upping the VTT, the motherboard simply cannot handle 8gb modules. Is there anyway to up the VTT other then bios setting?

You can try to see if Intel's Extreme Tuning Utility is able to hook the VTT control (it can often hook core, cache and vDIMM, never checked for IMC voltages), but it's certainly not my preferred method of memory overclocking. You risk OS corruption if you repeatedly crash with unstable memory while within the OS, so trying to adjust voltages in the OS to make memory OC's stable is a gamble in and of itself.

 

If you are having issues going above 1600, try to do small adjustments. Manually set vDIMM to 1.65-1.7v, make sure your cache (uncore) clock is at stock, and manually dial in loose primary timings. I'd say 11-12-12-34-2 would be a great place to start, as you can always tighten once you find your highest clock speed that you can boot into. Be sure to keep an eye out on RTL (Round Trip Latency) and IO-L offsets, as if these train poorly, you are not only going to have terrible performance, you are also guaranteed to be unstable. You want RTL in both channels to be within 1-2T of each other, and the same applies to IO-L offsets. If one RTL value is 50, and the other 60, you know something is extremely off. This can be a result of auto training from the board, so dialing them in manually is a good idea once you determine which values are applicable to the rest of your timings.

 

I have a guide in my signature that covers memory overclocking on DDR4, but almost all of it translates to DDR3 (aside from RTL_INIT, since that didn't exist for DDR3 boards). Make sure if you have an option in the BIOS for MRC Fast Boot, that it's turned off, as this can seriously impact motherboard training in a negative way. Despite it's name, I have noticed zero difference in boot times with it enabled or disabled, and stability is far easier to achieve with it disabled.

[Srnewbee]

49 minutes ago, MageTank said:

You can try to see if Intel's Extreme Tuning Utility is able to hook the VTT control (it can often hook core, cache and vDIMM, never checked for IMC voltages), but it's certainly not my preferred method of memory overclocking.

I checked it out and no voltage adjustment. It seems that the utility is pretty safe since it does not tamper with any of the voltages. You just gotta watch for temps. But anyways, no go for this one.

 

51 minutes ago, MageTank said:

If you are having issues going above 1600, try to do small adjustments. Manually set vDIMM to 1.65-1.7v, make sure your cache (uncore) clock is at stock, and manually dial in loose primary timings. I'd say 11-12-12-34-2 would be a great place to start,

I tried it, anything beyond 1600, it will not POST despite the higher voltage and looser timing.

 

I am right now thinking of a way to enable the disabled VTT on my bios since the bios is from AMI.

Another option I am thinking is voltage control from OS.

 

 

[MageTank]

8 hours ago, Srnewbee said:

I checked it out and no voltage adjustment. It seems that the utility is pretty safe since it does not tamper with any of the voltages. You just gotta watch for temps. But anyways, no go for this one.

I am not questioning the safety of the utility, I am questioning overclocking ram from within the OS, as you risk corrupting your OS install with failed memory overclocks. 

 

8 hours ago, Srnewbee said:

I tried it, anything beyond 1600, it will not POST despite the higher voltage and looser timing.

 

I am right now thinking of a way to enable the disabled VTT on my bios since the bios is from AMI.

Another option I am thinking is voltage control from OS.

There is very little you can do to force anything beyond 1600 if it's not taking it. Multiple factors are likely limiting you. If you are thinking about using AfuDOS to flash a custom bios with the VTT flags revealed, I would advise against this unless you have a cold flasher or EEPROM programmer to get yourself out of a sticky situation if it goes south. 

 

If it were me, I would keep the 1600, and tighten the timings as much as physically possible. Since you have a highly binned kit, you should be able to tighten it quite a bit. You can also try to tinker with your tertiary timings, or try using a single DIMM at a time to see if it lets you push any higher. If a single DIMM allows you to bypass the 1600mhz limitation, you know that it could be an issue with specific channel timings. If your sticks are multi-rank (which most 8GB DIMM's are for DDR3), you can adjust the multi-rank tertiary timings to be looser as well, to relieve some of the stress off the IMC. 

[Srnewbee]

3 hours ago, MageTank said:

AfuDOS to flash a custom bios with the VTT flags revealed, I would advise against this unless you have a cold flasher or EEPROM programmer to get yourself out of a sticky situation if it goes south. 

A nice techie on the other website browsed through my bios and told me that VTT was missing completely, not even disabled. Zotac conveniently skimped out. (I mean what the heck are you thinking skimping out on VTT when you market this as an enthusiast overclockable product, and plus its outsourced to AMI) I am happy they are no longer making motherboards.

 

3 hours ago, MageTank said:

If a single DIMM allows you to bypass the 1600mhz limitation, you know that it could be an issue with specific channel timings. If your sticks are multi-rank (which most 8GB DIMM's are for DDR3), you can adjust the multi-rank tertiary timings to be looser as well, to relieve some of the stress off the IMC. 

I do not really know much about overclocking so I am not too sure when you said "multi-rank tertiary timings." For now, I am gonna try tRFC of 380 and tfaw at 32.

[Srnewbee]

thanks for you help mage. I got the ram to run at @2133 10-12-12-35 trfc 380 and tfaw 32. Something weird happened tho. I went back into bios to try a higher setting, but the max trfc is now capped to 255. I didn't wanna risk anything so I just left it the way it is. Do you think I should just enjoy 2133?

[MageTank]

1 minute ago, Srnewbee said:

thanks for you help mage. I got the ram to run at @2133 10-12-12-35 trfc 380 and tfaw 32. Something weird happened tho. I went back into bios to try a higher setting, but the max trfc is now capped to 255. I didn't wanna risk anything so I just left it the way it is. Do you think I should just enjoy 2133?

2133 is perfectly fine. Also, a lower tRFC is actually better from a performance standpoint. I am glad that you were able to overcome the 1600mhz barrier. If you have the time to tinker, you might be able to see if 2133 C9-11-11-22-1 boots. That would be far superior to most 2400 and 2600mhz XMP's, and should result in a nice performance uplift. 

[Srnewbee]

1 hour ago, MageTank said:

2133 is perfectly fine. Also, a lower tRFC is actually better from a performance standpoint. I am glad that you were able to overcome the 1600mhz barrier. If you have the time to tinker, you might be able to see if 2133 C9-11-11-22-1 boots. That would be far superior to most 2400 and 2600mhz XMP's, and should result in a nice performance uplift. 

unfortunately, I think I am pretty much outta luck. I tried the cas9 setting but it failed prime95 blend. So I relaxed it to 10-11-11-28-1. I am still wondering tho, do you think 2400 is really impossible. I think increasing the tfaw is what made my board to boot.  

[MageTank]

tFAW should be 4x tRRD, and shouldn't have that big of an impact on stability as long as you adhere to that rule. Any speed is technically possible, but you need to figure out what your IMC likes, along with what the board can handle. Again, the board has that 2666mhz rating listed, but it's difficult to know what is required to achieve that, as there are thousands of timing/clock combinations one could try.

 

If you want to try 2400, I would not go any looser than 11-13-13-26-2. If you have to loosen primary timings any more than that to make 2400 stable, it will be worse than your 2133 C10 setup.