im planning to do a custom loop in the ncase M1.. rad clearence??

[Neokolzia]

Just now, HK1 said:

yea.. other cases though, they just don't have the same size as the m1 and are heavier. i was looking at the nzxt h200i. if im not watercooling i could go with something smaller, but NO SIDE WINDOWW nooooooo. lol

I updated my post above, also consider you can basically make your own case to a degree taking one without a side panel and making it so a piece of tempered glass fits flush

[HK1]

2 minutes ago, Neokolzia said:

I updated my post above, also consider you can basically make your own case to a degree taking one without a side panel and making it so a piece of tempered glass fits flush

Wow I never thought of that for some reason *facepalm* 

[HK1]

8 minutes ago, Neokolzia said:

I just don't think this case is well designed for watercooling, having your only major radiator blasting straight into your GPU block just seems like a bad idea or exhausting from it either or.

 

I can definately understand being heartset on a small form factor build.  I'd consider your options with other SFF cases as well, as there are many out there, and not to mention could be a number that have never been modded fully

 

I mean take a look at some EVGA Hadron builds they are beautiful, albeit before tempered glass phad

 

 

Just take it from me at least where I have dual 420mm rads (27mm thick Magicool's) and because of poor air flow in the bequiet 900 pro it suffers pretty bad considering its a fairly reasonable loop with just a 1800x and 1080ti

Dual 420s? I'm drooling now. I'll check out the evga hadron, thanks for the help

[HK1]

7 minutes ago, HK1 said:

Wow I never thought of that for some reason *facepalm* 

Btw where are the radiator points? Where can I mount them

 

 

The case looks good but the m1 looked cleaner to me it's just more simple, the size of the hadron is good tho, any other colors the hadron comes in? Like the m1s silver. Thanks

[For Science!]

1 hour ago, HK1 said:

-

WRT to the RGB header, I put a cheap RGB controller in here (the upside down thing that says RoHS), next to the fan hub on the side of the PSU, that lets me get the rainbow dose that I need.

 

 

With respect to temps, you still have to think of it in terms of noise normalized. I am glad I did all the iterations and will summarize them below:

 

Just as a reminder:

CPU: 8700K @ All-core 4.8 GHz (due to Asus MCE enable) at "Auto Voltages"

GPU: 1080Ti Aero (MSI, blower-style).

 

I was using RealBench as a stress test since it puts stress on the entire system (GPU. CPU. Memory)

 

When using "Air cooling" Which was with a 240 mm AIO on the CPU and the stock GPU cooler (so not really Air, but lets just assume it is "BEST case scenario"). Basically the CPU temperatures are likely to not get this good with any air cooler that fits inside the Ncase M1. The AIO fans were on exhaust to prevent re-heating the case internals.

 

CPU Temperature: 75 degrees

GPU Temperature: 67 degrees

 

Now under these conditions, the system was very loud. The high rpm of the GPU cooler was very noticeable and the H100i v2 was also noticeable.

 

Since we know that intel CPUs benefit a huge amount from delidding, the stock TIM between the IHS and CPU die was replaced with liquid metal (TG Conductonaut). In my case, I have also re-lidded the CPU (i.e. re-introduce the silicone sealant) many people do not like this and thinks it kills the point of delidding, but see the results below. The same test was conducted using the same configuration as above.

 

CPU Temperature: 59 degrees (-16 degrees)

GPU Temperature: 67 degrees

Total change vs previous: -16 degrees

 

Since the system is kicking off the same amount of heat, the system is still just as loud. But once again, we see the benefit of delidding the CPU and replacing the TIM with LM. 16 degrees improvement is fairly representative of what people see with a LM swap, and shows at least the way I reseal my CPUs with silicone does not adversely affect the gains. Or lets put it this way, perhaps without the silicone I may have gained more, but I am happy to take 16 degrees improvement without the worry of my IHS falling off when my GF opens up the CPU latch for some reason. 

 

So here comes the interesting part. We take out the AIO, slap on the custom loop parts. In my case that means I have a total of 360 mm radiator space which is 30 mm thick, meaning an addition of 120 mm total radiator space when comparing vs the H100i v2. We run the same test:

 

CPU Temperature: 75 degrees (+16 degrees)

GPU Temperature: 54 degrees (-13 degrees)

Total change vs previous: +3 degrees

 

So you can see that actually by going to a custom 360 mm loop with high-end parts make my components temp overall higher than with AIO + Air. This is why I say that 360 mm is the absolute minimum for a 8700K (All core 4.8GHz) with a 1080Ti. However, beyond first glance, you have to appreciate that this system with the fans very close to inaudible (to me), and so in a noise normalized test, would massively outperform the previous 2 configurations. Unfortunately I do not have the equipment to noise normalize, so you'll just have to take my word for it. I personally don't do watercooling for the performance overhead, I do it for the silence. I am certain that if I were to let the fans go crazy and match the noise of the AIO + GPU, then the numbers will be far more impressive.

 

Having said all that this was all at "Auto" voltages, and with some manual tweaking this system is running with a daily 5 GHz with plenty of cooling (<60 degrees) for all daily tasks including gaming.

[HK1]

8 hours ago, For Science! said:

WRT to the RGB header, I put a cheap RGB controller in here (the upside down thing that says RoHS), next to the fan hub on the side of the PSU, that lets me get the rainbow dose that I need.

 

 

With respect to temps, you still have to think of it in terms of noise normalized. I am glad I did all the iterations and will summarize them below:

 

Just as a reminder:

CPU: 8700K @ All-core 4.8 GHz (due to Asus MCE enable) at "Auto Voltages"

GPU: 1080Ti Aero (MSI, blower-style).

 

I was using RealBench as a stress test since it puts stress on the entire system (GPU. CPU. Memory)

 

When using "Air cooling" Which was with a 240 mm AIO on the CPU and the stock GPU cooler (so not really Air, but lets just assume it is "BEST case scenario"). Basically the CPU temperatures are likely to not get this good with any air cooler that fits inside the Ncase M1. The AIO fans were on exhaust to prevent re-heating the case internals.

 

CPU Temperature: 75 degrees

GPU Temperature: 67 degrees

 

Now under these conditions, the system was very loud. The high rpm of the GPU cooler was very noticeable and the H100i v2 was also noticeable.

 

Since we know that intel CPUs benefit a huge amount from delidding, the stock TIM between the IHS and CPU die was replaced with liquid metal (TG Conductonaut). In my case, I have also re-lidded the CPU (i.e. re-introduce the silicone sealant) many people do not like this and thinks it kills the point of delidding, but see the results below. The same test was conducted using the same configuration as above.

 

CPU Temperature: 59 degrees (-16 degrees)

GPU Temperature: 67 degrees

Total change vs previous: -16 degrees

 

Since the system is kicking off the same amount of heat, the system is still just as loud. But once again, we see the benefit of delidding the CPU and replacing the TIM with LM. 16 degrees improvement is fairly representative of what people see with a LM swap, and shows at least the way I reseal my CPUs with silicone does not adversely affect the gains. Or lets put it this way, perhaps without the silicone I may have gained more, but I am happy to take 16 degrees improvement without the worry of my IHS falling off when my GF opens up the CPU latch for some reason. 

 

So here comes the interesting part. We take out the AIO, slap on the custom loop parts. In my case that means I have a total of 360 mm radiator space which is 30 mm thick, meaning an addition of 120 mm total radiator space when comparing vs the H100i v2. We run the same test:

 

CPU Temperature: 75 degrees (+16 degrees)

GPU Temperature: 54 degrees (-13 degrees)

Total change vs previous: +3 degrees

 

So you can see that actually by going to a custom 360 mm loop with high-end parts make my components temp overall higher than with AIO + Air. This is why I say that 360 mm is the absolute minimum for a 8700K (All core 4.8GHz) with a 1080Ti. However, beyond first glance, you have to appreciate that this system with the fans very close to inaudible (to me), and so in a noise normalized test, would massively outperform the previous 2 configurations. Unfortunately I do not have the equipment to noise normalize, so you'll just have to take my word for it. I personally don't do watercooling for the performance overhead, I do it for the silence. I am certain that if I were to let the fans go crazy and match the noise of the AIO + GPU, then the numbers will be far more impressive.

 

Having said all that this was all at "Auto" voltages, and with some manual tweaking this system is running with a daily 5 GHz with plenty of cooling (<60 degrees) for all daily tasks including gaming.

great  so your hitting 5GHz on the CPU under non synthetic load with the 120+240 + delidded 8700k under 60C WITH silence? that's great. i think im sold on doing a custom loop in this. the EVGA hadron only has support for a rad on the top. i think im gonna do my loop like this. *photo*             

 

if i do overclock i'll just make the fan curve higher i guess  

 

i don't think i want to de-lid it and re-lid it though, im in qatar btw, if anything happens without delidding i would need that warranty cuz i can't RMA it and wait weeks .

 

anyway, thanks for the help , i'll keep you updated on the build, project crampeus is on hold for now, ill create a build log for it when i get the parts

 

thanks again  

[HK1]

8 hours ago, For Science! said:

WRT to the RGB header, I put a cheap RGB controller in here (the upside down thing that says RoHS), next to the fan hub on the side of the PSU, that lets me get the rainbow dose that I need.

 

 

With respect to temps, you still have to think of it in terms of noise normalized. I am glad I did all the iterations and will summarize them below:

 

Just as a reminder:

CPU: 8700K @ All-core 4.8 GHz (due to Asus MCE enable) at "Auto Voltages"

GPU: 1080Ti Aero (MSI, blower-style).

 

I was using RealBench as a stress test since it puts stress on the entire system (GPU. CPU. Memory)

 

When using "Air cooling" Which was with a 240 mm AIO on the CPU and the stock GPU cooler (so not really Air, but lets just assume it is "BEST case scenario"). Basically the CPU temperatures are likely to not get this good with any air cooler that fits inside the Ncase M1. The AIO fans were on exhaust to prevent re-heating the case internals.

 

CPU Temperature: 75 degrees

GPU Temperature: 67 degrees

 

Now under these conditions, the system was very loud. The high rpm of the GPU cooler was very noticeable and the H100i v2 was also noticeable.

 

Since we know that intel CPUs benefit a huge amount from delidding, the stock TIM between the IHS and CPU die was replaced with liquid metal (TG Conductonaut). In my case, I have also re-lidded the CPU (i.e. re-introduce the silicone sealant) many people do not like this and thinks it kills the point of delidding, but see the results below. The same test was conducted using the same configuration as above.

 

CPU Temperature: 59 degrees (-16 degrees)

GPU Temperature: 67 degrees

Total change vs previous: -16 degrees

 

Since the system is kicking off the same amount of heat, the system is still just as loud. But once again, we see the benefit of delidding the CPU and replacing the TIM with LM. 16 degrees improvement is fairly representative of what people see with a LM swap, and shows at least the way I reseal my CPUs with silicone does not adversely affect the gains. Or lets put it this way, perhaps without the silicone I may have gained more, but I am happy to take 16 degrees improvement without the worry of my IHS falling off when my GF opens up the CPU latch for some reason. 

 

So here comes the interesting part. We take out the AIO, slap on the custom loop parts. In my case that means I have a total of 360 mm radiator space which is 30 mm thick, meaning an addition of 120 mm total radiator space when comparing vs the H100i v2. We run the same test:

 

CPU Temperature: 75 degrees (+16 degrees)

GPU Temperature: 54 degrees (-13 degrees)

Total change vs previous: +3 degrees

 

So you can see that actually by going to a custom 360 mm loop with high-end parts make my components temp overall higher than with AIO + Air. This is why I say that 360 mm is the absolute minimum for a 8700K (All core 4.8GHz) with a 1080Ti. However, beyond first glance, you have to appreciate that this system with the fans very close to inaudible (to me), and so in a noise normalized test, would massively outperform the previous 2 configurations. Unfortunately I do not have the equipment to noise normalize, so you'll just have to take my word for it. I personally don't do watercooling for the performance overhead, I do it for the silence. I am certain that if I were to let the fans go crazy and match the noise of the AIO + GPU, then the numbers will be far more impressive.

 

Having said all that this was all at "Auto" voltages, and with some manual tweaking this system is running with a daily 5 GHz with plenty of cooling (<60 degrees) for all daily tasks including gaming.

btw how did you mount the res to the left, it looks like it's floating.

[HK1]

On 5/9/2018 at 2:15 AM, For Science! said:

:

i need your help.. would it be possible to mount a rad on top? 

[HK1]

On 5/9/2018 at 2:15 AM, For Science! said:

I

umm. ok i made up my mind. im going with this case with the window and watercooling my CPU with this: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-kit-s240. once i make my own case i'll get another 240 or something like that and expand this loop. i guess i'll have to get some slim fans IF i can't do this:

 

1 hour ago, HK1 said:

would it be possible to mount a rad on top? 

the rad in the bottom looks WAY cleaner though.rgb fans should fix it   or i'll just put the fans above the rad cuz the rad looks better.

 

good choice?

Edited May 10, 2018 by HK1
1 more question.

[For Science!]

3 hours ago, HK1 said:

-

I had to look really closely at the top mounted radiator as I couldn't believe my eyes. But the case is heavily modded, you can see that the graphics card is on the bottom of the case, (2 PCIe slots sealed visible) and therefor the motherboard has been scooted down as well. Normally the motherboard i/o should line up on top of the first PCIe slot.

 

Personally I don't recommend the SE240 radiator from EK since it has been reviewed very poorly, but I guess it should fit. I want to in future put my fans on top of the rad too in push but requires some re-squeeizing since the radiator has a minor conflict with the front i/0 with the GTS 240. 

 

Also if you don't watercool your GPU, a radiator is not going to fit underneath it. The image below shows a 2 slot card with 15 mm fans.

[HK1]

5 hours ago, For Science! said:

I had to look really closely at the top mounted radiator as I couldn't believe my eyes. But the case is heavily modded, you can see that the graphics card is on the bottom of the case, (2 PCIe slots sealed visible) and therefor the motherboard has been scooted down as well. Normally the motherboard i/o should line up on top of the first PCIe slot.

 

Personally I don't recommend the SE240 radiator from EK since it has been reviewed very poorly, but I guess it should fit. I want to in future put my fans on top of the rad too in push but requires some re-squeeizing since the radiator has a minor conflict with the front i/0 with the GTS 240. 

 

Also if you don't watercool your GPU, a radiator is not going to fit underneath it. The image below shows a 2 slot card with 15 mm fans.

well crap that crushed my dreams. i can go with the gts 240 forgot about it. umm maybe an ek xe 120 kit? could i mount a 120 rad on the top right of the case? hmm.. it doesn't interfere with the mobo or anyting so.. 

 

i think i can get a 240 AND a vertical gpu mount. i can 3D print a bracket which goes into the 2 horizontal PCI-e brackets on the case and flips the bracket around. gonna get to work designing it, autoCAD is not having mercy on me and it's telling me my license doesn't work anymore, iv'e tried everything to fix it but well... fusion 360 i guess.

im not that good at fusion 360 but i think i can design AT LEAST a pci-e bracket vertical thingy if not a case in fusion.. then i can use this: http://www.performance-pcs.com/un-designs-pump-z2-bracket-for-laing-d4-d5-ddc-pumps-120mm-fans-black.html to mount and top of the rad, and glue the riser on to it.

 

something like this but different.

Edited May 10, 2018 by HK1
UPDATE

[For Science!]

2 hours ago, HK1 said:

something like this but different.

Theres a product for this already out. It has to be special since tradiational vertical riser mounts needs 5~7 pcie slots, where the Ncase only has 3.

 

https://mnpctech.com/pci-e-riser-cable/mnpctech-ncase-m1-vertical-video-card-gpu-mounting-bracket-silver.html

 

But then the GPU will be right up against the glass so your GPU will be crying for air, and it actually makes less use of the space. You can get a thicker 240 radiator, but pump mount is much more difficult.

 

[HK1]

56 minutes ago, For Science! said:

Theres a product for this already out. It has to be special since tradiational vertical riser mounts needs 5~7 pcie slots, where the Ncase only has 3.

 

https://mnpctech.com/pci-e-riser-cable/mnpctech-ncase-m1-vertical-video-card-gpu-mounting-bracket-silver.html

 

But then the GPU will be right up against the glass so your GPU will be crying for air, and it actually makes less use of the space. You can get a thicker 240 radiator, but pump mount is much more difficult.

 

umm i guess xe 120 then on the top left

[For Science!]

32 minutes ago, HK1 said:

umm i guess xe 120 then on the top left

if you mean where the 92 mm fan is supposed to go? I don't think it'll mount or fit.

[HK1]

16 minutes ago, For Science! said:

if you mean where the 92 mm fan is supposed to go? I don't think it'll mount or fit.

i guess im stuckee.. could i mount it at the top right? above the res in this photo.

[For Science!]

2 minutes ago, HK1 said:

i guess im stuckee.. could i mount it at the top right? above the res in this photo.

There are no native mount points on the top of the case, also the PSU bracket goes pretty much to the top

 

 

[For Science!]

7 minutes ago, HK1 said:

i guess im stuckee.. could i mount it at the top right? above the res in this photo.

Honestly, there aren't so many ways to do a custom loop in the Ncase M1 (and any other genuine SFF case to be honest). If you want the maximum cooling with a window, I think the photo you attach is the best possible way to do it.

[HK1]

3 minutes ago, For Science! said:

There are no native mount points on the top of the case, also the PSU bracket goes pretty much to the top

 

 

So my only option is go full loop with the 92mm rad on the top left + 240 or go window less and go with aio or get a 92mm rad which can sufficiently cool me at 5GHz

[For Science!]

Just now, HK1 said:

So my only option is go full loop with the 92mm rad on the top left + 240 or go window less and go with aio or get a 92mm rad which can sufficiently cool me at 5GHz

sounds about right. Although option 3 sounds the worst since a 92mm rad aio will be about a 212 or worst.

[HK1]

1 minute ago, For Science! said:

sounds about right. Although option 3 sounds the worst since a 92mm rad aio will be about a 212 or worst.

Ahhhh any other cases you know with a window in the sff which can take a 240ras with slims

[For Science!]

3 minutes ago, HK1 said:

Ahhhh any other cases you know with a window in the sff which can take a 240ras with slims

It's not really SFF, but Lian Li 05S for example has the ideas you have been talking about, and being easier to fit. 

[HK1]

5 minutes ago, For Science! said:

It's not really SFF, but Lian Li 05S for example has the ideas you have been talking about, and being easier to fit. 

Wowwww ok so it has support for a thick 240 or 280 like the CE or PE ek seri3s?

Edited May 10, 2018 by HK1

[For Science!]

5 minutes ago, HK1 said:

Wowwww ok so it has support for a thick 240 or 280 like the CE or PE ek seri3s?

Looks like at least the PE will fit. The only thing about the O5SX is it isn't much smaller than a small mid-tower

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/b/9skdnQ

[HK1]

Just now, For Science! said:

Looks like at least the PE will fit. The only thing about the O5SX is it isn't much smaller than a small mid-tower

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/b/9skdnQ

Yeah ur right.. the inwin 301 has 240+120mm rads, it's 36x37x20 I think. It also has support for m-atx and itx, the meshify c mini is also an option. The PC 05s is cool for me actually, it's thin and will PROBABLY fit I a bag or carrying case, still want to go smaller though, maybe I can hold off on the RGB and tempered glass and custom loop bragging and performance bragging rights till I make my own case. Maybe the node 202 or the PC 05s

[HK1]

8 minutes ago, For Science! said:

Looks like at least the PE will fit. The only thing about the O5SX is it isn't much smaller than a small mid-tower

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/b/9skdnQ

Or actually the Dr zaber sentry is cool too