im planning to do a custom loop in the ncase M1.. rad clearence??

[HK1]

is it possible to fit the EK slim series 240mm radiator under the GPU for a custom loop and STILL use 25mm fans? im watercooling my asus gtx 1080 turbo with the bitspower waterblock, will that give me the 53mm of clearence i need between the bottom of the case and my waterblock to fit the rad and 25mm fans? i can go with 15mm fans but i've heard they significantly reduce performance, what is the performance difference between 25mm and 15mm fans?

my specs:

stuff i have right now: asus gtx 1080 turbo + i7 2600 and stuff from 2011.

what i plan to get and do a custom loop with: 

i7 8700k
asus strix z370-i
16 or 32GB g.skill trident Z RGB ram
corsair sf600 power supply

[For Science!]

6 minutes ago, HK1 said:

-

Nope, you must use slim fans. See my Ncase M1 Build log. I used 15 mm fans and a HWlabs 240 mm radiator.

 

Even if it were to fit, you'd probably be so tight against the gpu block that the fan will be choked so you'll be better off with high quality 15 mm fans anyway.

 

 

[HK1]

Just now, For Science! said:

Nope, you must use slim fans. See my Ncase M1 Build log. I used 15 mm fans and a HWlabs 240 mm radiator.

 

Even if it were to fit, you'd probably be so tight against the radiator that the fan will be choked so you'll be better off with high quality 15 mm fans anyway.

 

 

any good slim fans you know?

 

[HK1]

1 minute ago, For Science! said:

Nope, you must use slim fans. See my Ncase M1 Build log. I used 15 mm fans and a HWlabs 240 mm radiator.

 

Even if it were to fit, you'd probably be so tight against the radiator that the fan will be choked so you'll be better off with high quality 15 mm fans anyway.

 

 

ive seen your build log already

[For Science!]

1 minute ago, HK1 said:

any good slim fans you know?

 

The Noctua slims that I put in my build are very quiet and supposedly perform on-par with their 25 mm brethren (since apparantly the are a newer design). They can also go to 1850 rpm if you need the airflow in intense situation.

 

Otherwise I have seen people use Silverstone slim fans http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?area=en&pid=500

[For Science!]

21 minutes ago, HK1 said:

ive seen your build log already

http://www.overclockers.com/noctua-nf-a12x15-fan-review/

 

Heres a review anyway, basically you get 37 cfm of air through a radiator with 20 dBA noise (unobstructed). So in terms of noise-normalized performance it is very good.

 

[HK1]

42 minutes ago, For Science! said:

http://www.overclockers.com/noctua-nf-a12x15-fan-review/

 

Heres a review anyway, basically you get 37 cfm of air through a radiator with 20 dBA noise (unobstructed). So in terms of noise-normalized performance it is very good.

 

so you have the 28mm rad or the 35mm ones from ek? and is a 240mm rad enough to allow me to overclock my hardware quite a bit? thanks for the help

[For Science!]

4 minutes ago, HK1 said:

so you have the 28mm rad or the 35mm ones from ek? and is a 240mm rad enough to allow me to overclock my hardware quite a bit? thanks for the help

I have a Hardwarelabs Black Ice Nemesis GTS radiator, which is 29.6 mm. I would recommend not using the EK slim rads, they have been reviewed quite poorly. I think with a 1080 you are slightly better off than I was, however note that I did use another 120 mm radiator. I think a 240 mm slim radiator alone you will have to choose between quiet but stock performance, or overclocked but louder fans to keep temperatures in check.

 

For me, with a 240 mm AIO on the CPU vs 360 mm custom loop with the 1080Ti, my CPU temperatures went up 15 degrees under full CPU and GPU load when compared to just the AIO, the GPU on the otherhand went down 12 degrees when compared to air cooling. Therefore the 120 mm worth of additional space is really only "just" enough to keep the 1080Ti and its power delivery in check.

 

So if you only have a 240 mm radiator, that would mean that you have less than 120 mm worth of radiator capacity allocated to the CPU, which is on the low side. The 8700K is a quite a heat generator so yes, things may be toasty. Having said that, you need to delid the 8700K otherwise you will probably be thermal bottlenecked by the die-to-IHS heat transfer anyway.

[HK1]

4 minutes ago, For Science! said:

I have a Hardwarelabs Black Ice Nemesis GTS radiator, which is 29.6 mm. I would recommend not using the EK slim rads, they have been reviewed quite poorly. I think with a 1080 you are slightly better off than I was, however note that I did use another 120 mm radiator. I think a 240 mm slim radiator alone you will have to choose between quiet but stock performance, or overclocked but louder fans to keep temperatures in check.

 

For me, with a 240 mm AIO on the CPU vs 360 mm custom loop with the 1080Ti, my CPU temperatures went up 15 degrees under full CPU and GPU load when compared to just the AIO, the GPU on the otherhand went down 12 degrees when compared to air cooling. Therefore the 120 mm worth of additional space is really only "just" enough to keep the 1080Ti and its power delivery in check.

 

So if you only have a 240 mm radiator, that would mean that you have less than 120 mm worth of radiator capacity allocated to the CPU, which is on the low side. The 8700K is a quite a heat generator so yes, things may be toasty. Having said that, you need to delid the 8700K otherwise you will probably be thermal bottlenecked by the die-to-IHS heat transfer anyway.

i am NOT going to delid it, i want that warranty, anyway, where did you mount the 120? i plan to use the new m1 window side panel and a radiator in front of the mobo would just look ugly.

[HK1]

10 minutes ago, For Science! said:

I have a Hardwarelabs Black Ice Nemesis GTS radiator, which is 29.6 mm. I would recommend not using the EK slim rads, they have been reviewed quite poorly. I think with a 1080 you are slightly better off than I was, however note that I did use another 120 mm radiator. I think a 240 mm slim radiator alone you will have to choose between quiet but stock performance, or overclocked but louder fans to keep temperatures in check.

 

For me, with a 240 mm AIO on the CPU vs 360 mm custom loop with the 1080Ti, my CPU temperatures went up 15 degrees under full CPU and GPU load when compared to just the AIO, the GPU on the otherhand went down 12 degrees when compared to air cooling. Therefore the 120 mm worth of additional space is really only "just" enough to keep the 1080Ti and its power delivery in check.

 

So if you only have a 240 mm radiator, that would mean that you have less than 120 mm worth of radiator capacity allocated to the CPU, which is on the low side. The 8700K is a quite a heat generator so yes, things may be toasty. Having said that, you need to delid the 8700K otherwise you will probably be thermal bottlenecked by the die-to-IHS heat transfer anyway.

btw i don't have a problem with slightly louder fans, but i would prefer it quiter, thanks for the help

[For Science!]

2 minutes ago, HK1 said:

i am NOT going to delid it, i want that warranty, anyway, where did you mount the 120? i plan to use the new m1 window side panel and a radiator in front of the mobo would just look ugly.

I mounted it in front of the PSU, (so will not work with the window mod). Another fellow form-person also did a Ncase M1 hardlined build compatible with a window (I believe). However that person had slightly underwhelming temperatures. So looks or performance, pick one, I guess?

 

 

[HK1]

1 minute ago, For Science! said:

I mounted it in front of the PSU, (so will not work with the window mod). Another fellow form-person also did a Ncase M1 hardlined build compatible with a window (I believe). However that person had slightly underwhelming temperatures. So looks or performance, pick one, I guess?

 

 

fyi there is an official window side panel here: https://www.sfflab.com/products/ncase_m1-window-panel

 

i think i can deal with a thinner rad like that with a fan on the outside, is the thing on the left the rad+fan? also is it 60mm thick?

 

how did you fit a 120mm rad on the back though? i thought the back only had support for 80mm fans

[HK1]

8 minutes ago, For Science! said:

I mounted it in front of the PSU, (so will not work with the window mod). Another fellow form-person also did a Ncase M1 hardlined build compatible with a window (I believe). However that person had slightly underwhelming temperatures. So looks or performance, pick one, I guess?

 

 

also if a guy is getting 70 degrees celsius on the cpu with a custom loop, i don't see the point in going with a custom loop in a small case then, apart from looks, it's not that much better than air cooling in this ff

[For Science!]

2 hours ago, HK1 said:

-

I fit my 120 mm on the fan mount where the window would be, so again, window is not compatible with a 120 mm extra rad. The otherside is to accomodate the D5 pump as well as a fan to cool the motherboard. I was very concious about the amount of heat the loop can take with just a 360 mm rad, so wanted to air cool the VRM.

 

I can only comment for my system, but I wouldn't go any less than the 360 mm radiator space for a 8700K + 1080Ti. With 360 mm radiator you can get decent temperatures while maintaining near silence. Any less and you will be comprimising on either noise level or thermals, at which point a big aftermarket cooler is probably a better use of space and easier on the ears.

 

If you look at my top view, theoretically you could ditch the 120 mm radiator, but then there will be no airflow onto the board, so you would want to also put the powerdelivery of the board into the loop, that will definitely be too much for a single 240mm radiator to handle.

 

 

You really are in a catch22 situation with the Ncase M1 since to maximize radiator space, you need to opt out of the window to have sufficient radiator space and board cooling. So if you have a window, you either have to go for something like an accerlo or morpheus ii aftermarket GPU cooler, but then you get to stare at some heat sinks, which imo isn't really a looker.

 

[HK1]

1 hour ago, For Science! said:

I fit my 120 mm on the fan mount where the window would be, so again, window is not compatible with a 120 mm extra rad. The otherside is to accomodate the D5 pump as well as a fan to cool the motherboard. I was very concious about the amount of heat the loop can take with just a 360 mm rad, so wanted to air cool the VRM.

 

I can only comment for my system, but I wouldn't go any less than the 360 mm radiator space for a 8700K + 1080Ti. With 360 mm radiator you can get decent temperatures while maintaining near silence. Any less and you will be comprimising on either noise level or thermals, at which point a big aftermarket cooler is probably a better use of space and easier on the ears.

 

If you look at my top view, theoretically you could ditch the 120 mm radiator, but then there will be no airflow onto the board, so you would want to also put the powerdelivery of the board into the loop, that will definitely be too much for a single 240mm radiator to handle.

 

 

You really are in a catch22 situation with the Ncase M1 since to maximize radiator space, you need to opt out of the window to have sufficient radiator space and board cooling. So if you have a window, you either have to go for something like an accerlo or morpheus ii aftermarket GPU cooler, but then you get to stare at some heat sinks, which imo isn't really a looker.

 

i can still do this mod by optimum tech:

 would i be able to put the rad in the back next to the I/O shield as shown in the purple coolant system and have the fan or rad be external?

 

thanks for the help.

[For Science!]

12 minutes ago, HK1 said:

i can still do this mod by optimum tech:

 would i be able to put the rad in the back next to the I/O shield as shown in the purple coolant system and have the fan or rad be external?

 

thanks for the help.

can't say for certain but looks okay to me, the radiator doesn't go outside the frame so it shouldn't impede the case mount.

[HK1]

11 hours ago, For Science! said:

can't say for certain but looks okay to me, the radiator doesn't go outside the frame so it shouldn't impede the case mount.

great! i researched online, the two rubber hole thingies in the back are for tubing for an external rad, i don't want the rad outside cuz im gonna be travelling with the pc and don't want it to get damaged, here's my plan: get the case first, build a crappy aircooled PC, check out my options, then get a custom loop. 

 

thanks for the help  

[HK1]

18 hours ago, For Science! said:

can't say for certain but looks okay to me, the radiator doesn't go outside the frame so it shouldn't impede the case mount.

i think i'll do someting like this with maybe a slim fan inside or outside  probably inside because i don't want to damage stuff and i don't want all that dust gooping up in the fan probably will go with a slightly thicker rad.. do thicker rads increase cooling potential by a big margin? ive heard  jay saying it doesn't help that much, any numbers? thanks

[For Science!]

2 hours ago, HK1 said:

i think i'll do someting like this with maybe a slim fan inside or outside  probably inside because i don't want to damage stuff and i don't want all that dust gooping up in the fan probably will go with a slightly thicker rad.. do thicker rads increase cooling potential by a big margin? ive heard  jay saying it doesn't help that much, any numbers? thanks

Thickness does matter, obviously not as much as having more area. No numbers, but I think going from 30 mm to 45 mm is a significant jump, principles of diminishing returns apply as usual.

 

The minor issue in such a small form factor is if your only intake is through a 60 mm radiator (or any radiator for that matter) it will re-heat the inside of the case and the loop. This was another reason why I strongly considered having at least 1 unobstructed intake to keep the interior a reasonable temperature.

 

The two fans on the bottom are pretty much their own ecosystem and so will not contribute to the overall case airflow.

[HK1]

lets say i get a 120+240 thin, i could cool the gpu and mobo with the 240 and the cpu with the 120, is that a good config? thanks

[HK1]

2 hours ago, For Science! said:

Thickness does matter, obviously not as much as having more area. No numbers, but I think going from 30 mm to 45 mm is a significant jump, principles of diminishing returns apply as usual.

 

The minor issue in such a small form factor is if your only intake is through a 60 mm radiator (or any radiator for that matter) it will re-heat the inside of the case and the loop. This was another reason why I strongly considered having at least 1 unobstructed intake to keep the interior a reasonable temperature.

 

The two fans on the bottom are pretty much their own ecosystem and so will not contribute to the overall case airflow.

btw what do i do if my mobo only has a 12v rgb header? that seems to be the case, i won't be able to power this mobo block without burning it if i don't have a 5v header, which the z370i doesn't have

[Neokolzia]

this sort of build would be strictly enthusiast, your not going to get good temps, well good in relative terms to the hardware being used.

 

From my experience building my own loop, this looks like an absolute nightmare to do maintenance on, and to route tubing.  I'd also advise against hard tubing for the extremely small links as its very difficult to get them in place

 

That bottom 240mm rad is barely going to beable to breath at all.

 

There is nearly no clearance, no available airflow, and at that ultra thin fans.

 

I'd consider looking at Hadron watercooling mods if you want a more reasonable small form-factor experience

[HK1]

9 minutes ago, Neokolzia said:

this sort of build would be strictly enthusiast, your not going to get good temps, well good in relative terms to the hardware being used.

 

From my experience building my own loop, this looks like an absolute nightmare to do maintenance on, and to route tubing.  I'd also advise against hard tubing for the extremely small links as its very difficult to get them in place

my heart is set on hard tubing and a tiny case, the small links and stuff.. well yeah but once you're done with it you're done with it so i don't mind, not hiding from working hard on this and maintaining it, the temps though  

 

it looks epic i guess but the temps aren't really much better than air cooling, im guessing the gpu and cpu would be under 60C under load if i go the 120 thicc + 240 thin way, is it really worth it? that's what im stuck on, it's bascially between looks and shaving off 10C

 

custom loop in the ncase

 

pros:

 

slightly lower temps

looks SUPER EPIC

 

cons:

 

maintenance

hard maintenance (im fine with it)

not much better than air cooling at this point, only slightly lower temps)
way more expensive than aircooling, around $500-$600 maybe(5 sec guesstimate).

makes the pc way heavier, which means... harder to carry

and im probably forgetting some stuff

 

is it REALLY worth it? i don't know.

 

btw guys i have a build log for making my own case. i kind of scrapped that cuz my autoCAD student license is dead, idk if i can get another one  guess ill do fusion 360 or see what i can do about it. don't plan to do it now, after my build is complete i'll start working on it, since im making it i could do 2x240 and stuff like that. 

 

btw just realized that the z370 i has 5v rgb headers.. i think. IDK the website doesn't list it. EK says so, so yeah i guess it has 5v.

 

thanks for the help everyone  

 

[Neokolzia]

I just don't think this case is well designed for watercooling, having your only major radiator blasting straight into your GPU block just seems like a bad idea or exhausting from it either or.

 

I can definately understand being heartset on a small form factor build.  I'd consider your options with other SFF cases as well, as there are many out there, and not to mention could be a number that have never been modded fully

 

I mean take a look at some EVGA Hadron builds they are beautiful, albeit before tempered glass phad

 

 

Just take it from me at least where I have dual 420mm rads (27mm thick Magicool's) and because of poor air flow in the bequiet 900 pro it suffers pretty bad considering its a fairly reasonable loop with just a 1800x and 1080ti

[HK1]

1 minute ago, Neokolzia said:

I just don't think this case is well designed for watercooling, having your only major radiator blasting straight into your GPU block just seems like a bad idea or exhausting from it either or.

 

I can definately understand being heartset on a small form factor build.  I'd consider your options with other SFF cases as well, as there are many out there, and not to mention could be a number that have never been modded fully

yea.. other cases though, they just don't have the same size as the m1 and are heavier. i was looking at the nzxt h200i. if im not watercooling i could go with something smaller, but NO SIDE WINDOWW nooooooo. lol