Idealy Free Database Service?

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

I'm currently looking into perhaps setting up a database for this youth cadet group as our current system of scattered Excel files with dozens of macros is just isn't good enough for multiple people to work efficiently. Not to mention it's just uploaded onto a shared Google Drive account and edited using Microsoft Office so it's never up to date. I am pretty familiar with SQL and don't mind having to write an application from scratch to communicate with it (in fact I've just did just that for a Database Systems I recently took). Anyone have any recommendations for ideally free and secure (those two don't show up together a lot but hey, might as well try) database hosting? We do have SharePoint included with our Office 365 subscription but our higher ups for whatever reason blocked units from making our own teams (which defeats the whole purpose of paying for SharePoint). 

 

My other random idea was to use MySQL and host it only within our own network. Would that also work? 

[79wjd]

My vote would be PostgreSQL hosted on a local server.

[Jarsky]

So you want a cloud based database service? Azure and AWS are excellent for this but they aren't free...if you're looking for cloud hosted database services for something like this, i'd never go with free. So if ongoing cost is a concern then maybe a locally hosted database is a better option. 

 

Plenty of free database software out there like MySQL, mariaDB and PostgreSQL. Database type isnt really a concern generally if you're just sticking with SQL syntaxes. 

There may be package solutions that might be easier than writing your own software, depending what you're trying to accomplish.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

4 hours ago, Jarsky said:

So you want a cloud based database service? Azure and AWS are excellent for this but they aren't free...if you're looking for cloud hosted database services for something like this, i'd never go with free. So if ongoing cost is a concern then maybe a locally hosted database is a better option. 

 

Plenty of free database software out there like MySQL, mariaDB and PostgreSQL. Database type isnt really a concern generally if you're just sticking with SQL syntaxes. 

There may be package solutions that might be easier than writing your own software, depending what you're trying to accomplish.

Wanting to go for a free solution as our higher ups are a pain and pretty much penny pinch whenever they can. They're for sure ain't going to approve any expenditure that'll make administrative work within units any easier. I guess I'll just go for an open sourced Database software and host it from a laptop during meetings.

 

Ideally I would prefer cloud just so people can work on stuff off site since we only meet once a week (cadets thing). 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

6 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

My vote would be PostgreSQL hosted on a local server.

Any advantages for PostgreeSQL over something like MySQL? I've only been using SQL Server for my Database course so I'm not too familiar with the feature sets of open sourced versions. I suppose these should allow for PDF attributes right?

[Mikensan]

If you already have an office 365 subscription it comes with onedrive. Create an access database which can pull data from the spreadsheets one time or you could have it feed off the spreadsheets indefinitely. Access is pretty powerful honestly, and fairly easy to use.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎02 at 7:06 AM, Mikensan said:

If you already have an office 365 subscription it comes with onedrive. Create an access database which can pull data from the spreadsheets one time or you could have it feed off the spreadsheets indefinitely. Access is pretty powerful honestly, and fairly easy to use.

I would use Access, but the main issue is cross platform compatibility. We have a lot of people who use Mac and as far as I know, there still isn't a proper version of Access for the Mac. 

[79wjd]

On 5/2/2018 at 4:02 AM, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Any advantages for PostgreeSQL over something like MySQL? I've only been using SQL Server for my Database course so I'm not too familiar with the feature sets of open sourced versions. I suppose these should allow for PDF attributes right?

I've just had bad experiences with MySQL and just generally prefer PostgreSQL.

[leadeater]

Long term maintenance is going to be an issue so any kind of custom application isn't the best idea.

 

Since there is an Office 365 subscription why is Google drive being used? Store the spreadsheet in O365 and share it out from there, then you can directly edit it using Excel or Online Editor and it'll always be up to date for everyone. You don't need SharePoint for this, you can do it from OneDrive.

[jde3]

On 5/2/2018 at 12:02 AM, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Any advantages for PostgreeSQL over something like MySQL? I've only been using SQL Server for my Database course so I'm not too familiar with the feature sets of open sourced versions. I suppose these should allow for PDF attributes right?

Postgres is a major SQL server for big projects usually. They compete with Oracle. A smaller more friendly one is MySQL (but most people use the fork MariaDB, since Oracle bought MySQL/Sun)

 

I'm a big fan of Postgres but you may want to use MariaDB for this.

 

I've never uses Office 365.. or.. really Office since windows 95.. so I can't comment there but @leadeater is right if you make a custom application your going to own it and it could be a full time job to maintain it.. there are ways to solve this problem.. and that might be the best solution as opposed to outsourcing but understand what that means.

 

Every growing business going through this process btw.. they start with excel then go to access then.. finally do the right thing and make a custom app once they get large enough.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎05 at 12:20 AM, leadeater said:

Long term maintenance is going to be an issue so any kind of custom application isn't the best idea.

 

Since there is an Office 365 subscription why is Google drive being used? Store the spreadsheet in O365 and share it out from there, then you can directly edit it using Excel or Online Editor and it'll always be up to date for everyone. You don't need SharePoint for this, you can do it from OneDrive.

Can you embed PDF documents onto it? For my role I handle applications for awards and I want to be able to keep track of applications and supporting PDF documents. 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Can you embed PDF documents onto it? For my role I handle applications for awards and I want to be able to keep track of applications and supporting PDF documents. 

OneDrive is very much exactly like Google Drive just with better direct tie ins to Microsoft Office and Windows. You can store anything you want in OneDrive.

 

Just keep in mind that like Google Drive OneDrive is more geared towards personal storage, as in a singular, which you can then share to others. If the original person/account leaves you no longer have access to manage the original files like sharing them to others etc. It's all tied to the owner account so unless you take over that account when the person leaves you lose the ability to manage the shared files. This is true for Google Drive as well.

 

That's why SharePoint exists. OneDrive is actually SharePoint under the hood btw.

[Mikensan]

On 5/4/2018 at 5:49 PM, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

I would use Access, but the main issue is cross platform compatibility. We have a lot of people who use Mac and as far as I know, there still isn't a proper version of Access for the Mac. 

Initially I was thinking access was offered in "cloud" format like Word / Excel but after logging in I see it's desktop only. Well dang.

Also in theory the office365 is tied to work email address, if a user leaves the IT department should still be able to access their email and reset the office 365 password. Albeit a bit of leg work, it can be done.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Mikensan said:

Initially I was thinking access was offered in "cloud" format like Word / Excel but after logging in I see it's desktop only.

Which is rather annoying, would have been a way to use Access on Mac but nope.

[jde3]

13 hours ago, leadeater said:

OneDrive is very much exactly like Google Drive just with better direct tie ins to Microsoft Office and Windows. You can store anything you want in OneDrive.

 

Just keep in mind that like Google Drive OneDrive is more geared towards personal storage, as in a singular, which you can then share to others. If the original person/account leaves you no longer have access to manage the original files like sharing them to others etc. It's all tied to the owner account so unless you take over that account when the person leaves you lose the ability to manage the shared files. This is true for Google Drive as well.

 

That's why SharePoint exists. OneDrive is actually SharePoint under the hood btw.

Are there ownership / copyright concerns placing original works on a service like Onedrive or Dropbox? Do they claim to own anything you upload to them like a lot of sites do?

[leadeater]

18 minutes ago, jde3 said:

Are there ownership / copyright concerns placing original works on a service like Onedrive or Dropbox? Do they claim to own anything you upload to them like a lot of sites do?

It's not copy right that's the issue it's file access and ownership. If you can't login to the account that owns and manages the files then all you can do is access files shared with you, you can't share it to new people depending on how it's shared or access non shared files.

 

In the case of an AD sync account once it's deleted from AD the O365 account is deleted along with all the files and there is no getting them back. That's why OneDrive is inherently personal storage and why SharePoint is a thing, and others like it.

 

This is the case for any cloud storage that is similar, like Google Drive or Dropbox etc.

 

We've hit this problem which is why I warn people about it. People have left, AD account deleted, O365 sync, data deleted, job logged with service desk about loss of access to important files and all we can do is say sorry this is why you were told not to store files like that in OneDrive. We have SharePoint and network shares, important non personal documents go there.

[KirbyTech]

Navy Cadets? If so awesome! 

 

As for a DB service, you mention SQL, would you be open to NoSQL? If so mlab.com would be a great free choice assuming you don't need a big DB. Their sandbox plan is decent IMO. I use it for development use and love it. Though I work in Node.js  

 

If you want help (assuming it is for Navy League shoot me a message and I will see if I can help out more)

[jde3]

4 hours ago, leadeater said:

It's not copy right that's the issue it's file access and ownership. If you can't login to the account that owns and manages the files then all you can do is access files shared with you, you can't share it to new people depending on how it's shared or access non shared files.

 

In the case of an AD sync account once it's deleted from AD the O365 account is deleted along with all the files and there is no getting them back. That's why OneDrive is inherently personal storage and why SharePoint is a thing, and others like it.

 

This is the case for any cloud storage that is similar, like Google Drive or Dropbox etc.

 

We've hit this problem which is why I warn people about it. People have left, AD account deleted, O365 sync, data deleted, job logged with service desk about loss of access to important files and all we can do is say sorry this is why you were told not to store files like that in OneDrive. We have SharePoint and network shares, important non personal documents go there.

What I'm talking about is this murky bit here..

 

Quote

By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.

https://blogs.dropbox.com/dropbox/2011/07/changes-to-our-policies/ I know some artists that wont put there stuff on Dropbox because of that. Some people are rather concerned about it. I know it's limited and I know they don't do it but the ToS varies from company to company and it is something to watch out for when dealing with various cloud providers.

 

This hasen't been a problem yet... to my knowledge.. but lets say in the future someone posts an image to Facebook of Zuc in a comprising position and he's outraged so he orders his minions at Facebook to take it down and then that user posts the same image to Twitter.. can Facebook claim ownership and remove it from twitter as well? Far as I'm aware Facebook reserves rights to all images so yes.. quite possibly.

 

The other bit you mentioned is a problem too though.

[leadeater]

7 hours ago, jde3 said:

What I'm talking about is this murky bit here..

 

https://blogs.dropbox.com/dropbox/2011/07/changes-to-our-policies/ I know some artists that wont put there stuff on Dropbox because of that. Some people are rather concerned about it. I know it's limited and I know they don't do it but the ToS varies from company to company and it is something to watch out for when dealing with various cloud providers.

 

This hasen't been a problem yet... to my knowledge.. but lets say in the future someone posts an image to Facebook of Zuc in a comprising position and he's outraged so he orders his minions at Facebook to take it down and then that user posts the same image to Twitter.. can Facebook claim ownership and remove it from twitter as well? Far as I'm aware Facebook reserves rights to all images so yes.. quite possibly.

 

The other bit you mentioned is a problem too though.

Data sovereignty is always an issue with cloud services, OneDrive and Office 365 doesn't have those conditions like DropBox does but I'm not sure if that applies to all plans of Office 365 and free OneDrive etc. I've only ever worked in regulated industries so a lot of what we can use is dictated to us, hence we don't use a lot of cloud services other than Office 365.

 

How you utilize cloud resources is a bit different depending on company/network size and infrastructure you have too. Like for us we're in the size where you shouldn't really put any persistent long term storage in the cloud as it would be far too expensive. We also have 3 campuses each with primary and secondary data centers so little is gained in that regard, geo-redundancy etc. For us cloud looks like everything we can do but at a higher cost so it really has to make sense to use it, like placing web servers in Azure China. That solves an actual issue and has a benefit, something we cannot do with what we own.

 

Even cloud archive storage like Glacier isn't that great when we have 6PB of backup data on disk that is replicated to another site, then anything old goes down to tape. Glacier is slow as hell, network speeds are terrible because we are in NZ and the closest AWS DC is Aus and price wise it doesn't beat an LTO-7 tape which can do 300MB/s uncompressed and 750MB/s compressed per tape drive. I can put 6 tape drives per 80 slot module and 7 modules in a rack, $7000 per module + $3500 per tape drive + $70 per bar-coded tape (prices in USD). We currently have 3 modules and 4 drives, MSL6480 if you're wondering, nothing too fancy,