AMD's official "eff you GPP" response: A Gamer's Choice

[Razor01]

Just now, Dylanc1500 said:

Actually making socketed GPUs might not be a terrible idea. It would be pretty neat sight.

 

 

It would be nice but memory tech changes almost every generation and we also have AMD and nV using different memory tech altogether at times too.

[Dylanc1500]

Just now, Razor01 said:

 

 

It would be nice but memory tech changes almost every generation and we also have AMD and nV using different memory tech altogether at times too.

Oh I know, and you could place HBM on the same package socket but the the memory controler would have to anticipate as function with either type of memory which would get complicated and expensive quickly.

[Misanthrope]

4 hours ago, Kamjam21xx said:

Radeon Prorender

Freesync

TreesFX

Radeon rays

GeometryFX

AoFX

ShadowFX

LiquidVR

Firerays

Firerender

Rapidfire

Radeon open compute

 

All open source from AMD, and theres probably more i dont know about. their professional cards make way more sense to buy money and speed wise for most single users. Theyre a great company. 

 

Cuda cores might not be special anymore. if it wasnt for nvidia leaving everything closed source , i would have no incentive to buy a workstation card from them at all. https://gpuopen.com/compute-product/hip-convert-cuda-to-portable-c-code/

 

Fyi ill never buy an nvidia card, ill let my girlfriend get one. But i dont like what they do, and wont help them do it.

 

Except when it really counts:

 

 

 

[Brooksie359]

15 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

Has there actually been anything that has shown NVIdia telling anyone that they can't sell the competition? If so I haven't seen it and I am genuinely curious.

there is significant evidence that they cant sell them under their existing gaming brand. hence why asus now has the arez brand for AMD gpus

[Dylanc1500]

7 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

there is significant evidence that they cant sell them under their existing gaming brand. hence why asus now has the arez brand for AMD gpus

So there isn't anything actually stating that NVidia is telling partners that their current existing brand has to be used exclusively for NVidia only? So from what has actually been shown, technically their partners could have created an entirely new line up exclusively for NVidia and left the current for AMD, correct?

@Razor01 @pas008and @Misanthrope could any of you guys inform me if I am missing something?

 

Sorry ahead of time for all the tags.

[Brooksie359]

13 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

So there isn't anything actually stating that NVidia is telling partners that their current existing brand has to be used exclusively for NVidia only? So from what has actually been shown, technically their partners could have created an entirely new line up exclusively for NVidia and left the current for AMD, correct?

@Razor01 @pas008and @Misanthrope could any of you guys inform me if I am missing something?

 

Sorry ahead of time for all the tags.

basically from leaks within the industry the wording was that they couldn't sell AMD gpus under their gaming brand. so I would assume that the arez is a sort of work around. now again these are leaks and nothing has been confirmed but the reality of the matter is that its pretty clear that it exist. you can tell by all the companies taking off their current gaming brand's branding off of amd gpus.

[Razor01]

18 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

So there isn't anything actually stating that NVidia is telling partners that their current existing brand has to be used exclusively for NVidia only? So from what has actually been shown, technically their partners could have created an entirely new line up exclusively for NVidia and left the current for AMD, correct?

@Razor01 @pas008and @Misanthrope could any of you guys inform me if I am missing something?

 

Sorry ahead of time for all the tags.

 

From my understanding, there is no where in the GPP that limits the ability to sell competitor's products, the competitors product must not be in the same brand though.

 

Yes it does seem if the AIB's decided to create a new brand for nV they could have done that.  But that had to be also agreed upon by nV, I'm pretty sure nV used their muscle to take current brands, they have the most weight anyways and logically for AIB's to push 70% of the market to an unknown brand wouldn't make much sense either.

[Brooksie359]

49 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

 

Can you buy the boards from AIB's separately?  They are also in the same market man.  Need both to even function.

 

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/young_lawyers/publications/the_101_201_practice_series/the_wonderful_world_of_tying.html

 

 

If you still approach the current gaming brands as a separate entity then it still would fit under the same anticompeteive laws that got intel in trouble back in the day. they are basically saying arorus or rog cant sell AMD gpus. One could argue that even though they are owned by asus and by gigabyte they are somewhat separate. 

[pas008]

2 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

If you still approach the current gaming brands as a separate entity then it still would fit under the same anticompeteive laws that got intel in trouble back in the day. they are basically saying arorus or rog cant sell AMD gpus. One could argue that even though they are owned by asus and by gigabyte they are somewhat separate. 

what got intel in trouble was telling oems not to sell competitor

but funny thing I dont think they paid a dime yet except in lawyers

[Brooksie359]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

what got intel in trouble was telling oems not to sell competitor

but funny thing I dont think they paid a dime yet except in lawyers

yes but nvidia is doing the same thing only to rog and aorus. rog cant sell AMD gpus neither can Aorus. the argument could be made that they are basically doing the same thing.

[Razor01]

15 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

yes but nvidia is doing the same thing only to rog and aorus. rog cant sell AMD gpus neither can Aorus. the argument could be made that they are basically doing the same thing.

 

That is not the same thing you are trying to make it the same thing.

 

Intel, told OEM's don't sell AMD products (or limited amounts of them) and they will give them money to do so in the form of kickbacks though their MDF.

 

That is straight out anti trust, there is no defending that.

 

It breaks anti trust laws.

 

For GPP to break those laws, the precedent of those laws much change first, and that is not easy to do.

 

Its like trying to use tying definition or the Robinson-Patman Act,  for a non merger situation.

 

What makes this nearly impossible to change precedent is the first amendment right to free speech, that much be changed too.

[captain cactus]

2 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Except when it really counts:

 

 

 

AMD can't open source what isn't theirs. The PSP is an ARM SOC with ARM code so if there's anyone that should be open sourcing stuff it's ARM, not AMD.

[Razor01]

6 minutes ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

AMD can't open source what isn't theirs. The PSP is an ARM SOC with ARM code so if there's anyone that should be open sourcing stuff it's ARM, not AMD.

Yeah they can, they don't need to show the ARM IP but what ever software and what not on top of it, they can open source it if they want to.  Microcode, application source, driver source stuff like that.

[Kamjam21xx]

4 hours ago, Razor01 said:

 

That is not the same thing you are trying to make it the same thing.

 

Intel, told OEM's don't sell AMD products (or limited amounts of them) and they will give them money to do so in the form of kickbacks though their MDF.

 

That is straight out anti trust, there is no defending that.

 

It breaks anti trust laws.

 

For GPP to break those laws, the precedent of those laws much change first, and that is not easy to do.

 

Its like trying to use tying definition or the Robinson-Patman Act,  for a non merger situation.

 

What makes this nearly impossible to change precedent is the first amendment right to free speech, that much be changed too.

Its funny you bring up the first amendment, we in the u.s. are the only country on earth with freedom of speech that is explicitly stated and enforced.

[Razor01]

20 minutes ago, Kamjam21xx said:

Its funny you bring up the first amendment, we in the u.s. are the only country on earth with freedom of speech that is explicitly stated and enforced.

You know whats really funny the EU has very little guidance in advertising.  Its primarily done though each country on a per jurisdiction basis lol.  Good luck with that, how many countries are part of the EU, ya need to go to each one of em

 

The general laws for EU are similar to here in the US which is false adverting is pretty much the only thing that is covered.  Everything else is country by country.

 

The rest of the world has caught up with regards of our bill of rights at least for democratic countries, this isn't like a century ago.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country

 

really are we the only country that has it?

[Kamjam21xx]

6 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

You know whats really funny the EU has very little guidance in advertising.  Its primarily done though each country on a per jurisdiction basis lol.  Good luck with that, how many countries are part of the EU, ya need to go to each one of em

 

The general laws for EU are similar to here in the US which is false adverting is pretty much the only thing that is covered.  Everything else is country by country.

 

The rest of the world has caught up with regards of our bill of rights at least for democratic countries, this isn't like a century ago.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country

 

really are we the only country that has it?

We are still the only country. I dont remember specific examples, but you can go to jail and be forced to pay huge fines for saying the wrong thing in other countries. Even in europe.

 

Try to march down the street and yell heil Hitler in germany.

[Razor01]

19 minutes ago, Kamjam21xx said:

We are still the only country. I dont remember specific examples, but you can go to jail and be forced to pay huge fines for saying the wrong thing in other countries. Even in europe.

 

Try to march down the street and yell heil Hitler in germany.

 

 

If you read the link I sent you they tell you about things like Heil Hitler   Different countries have provisions of things like that.

 

There are countries in Europe that provide even more protection for advertising then the US.

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, Kamjam21xx said:

Its funny you bring up the first amendment, we in the u.s. are the only country on earth with freedom of speech that is explicitly stated and enforced.

Well that's just not true, most democratic countries have freedom of speech/expression. Also most other countries have Constitutions as well, they just aren't required to come up local conversation. America doesn't actually have more special rights than other similar countries, we just don't like to continuously tell everyone about it.

 

Quote

An independent press, an effective judiciary, and a functioning democratic political system combine to ensure freedom of speech and of the press.[14] In particular, freedom of expression is preserved in section 14 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 (BORA) which states that:

“Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the right to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form”.

This provision reflects the more detailed one in Article 19 of the ICCPR. The significance of this right and its importance to democracy has been emphasised by the New Zealand courts. It has been described as the primary right without which the rule of law cannot effectively operate.[15] The right is not only the cornerstone of democracy; it also guarantees the self-fulfilment of its members by advancing knowledge and revealing truth.[16] As such, the right has been given a wide interpretation. The Court of Appeal has said that section 14 is “as wide as human thought and imagination”.[17] Freedom of expression embraces free speech, a free press, transmission and receipt of ideas and information, freedom of expression in art, and the right to silence.[18] The right to freedom of expression also extends to the right to seek access to official records. This is provided for in the Official Information Act 1982.

 

New Zealand is also ranked the most transparent government in the world and also the least corrupt country in the world. Australia in a lot of ways is similar as well, those are the only two countries I can speak directly about but most of Europe I'd suspect is similar as well.

 

I'll leave it at that since political discussion is not allowed, but I'd rather you not think something that isn't actually true.

[Razor01]

8 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well that's just not true, most democratic countries have freedom of speech/expression. Also most other countries have Constitutions as well, they just aren't required to come up local conversation. America doesn't actually have more special rights than other similar countries, we just don't like to contentiously tell everyone about it.

 

 

New Zealand is also ranked the most transparent government in the world and also the least corrupt country in the world. Australia in a lot of ways is similar as well, those are the only two countries I can speak directly about but most of Europe I'd suspect is similar as well.

 

I'll leave it at that since political discussion is not allowed, but I'd rather you not think something that isn't actually true.

Yep ever watch those racy commercials from European countries, can't even dream about airing those here in the US lol.

[Kamjam21xx]

Well we can agree or disagree on if what other countries dont let you say contitutes a violation of the idea of free speech. 

 

Thats fine.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Kamjam21xx said:

Well we can agree or disagree on if what other countries dont let you say contitutes a violation of the idea of free speech. 

 

Thats fine.

Hate speech is not allowed in the US either, freedom of speech has limits there like other places too and people in the US have been jailed for it and it comes with very long sentences.

 

If we want to assume something then if a country is a democracy then they also have freedom of speech, nice simple and a fair assumption for everyone.

[Kamjam21xx]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Hate speech is not allowed in the US either, freedom of speech has limits there like other places too and people in the US have been jailed for it and it comes with very long sentences.

 

If we want to assume something then if a country is a democracy then they also have freedom of speech, nice simple and a fair assumption for everyone.

Freedom of speech in the u.s. pretty much agrees with common law. But it all always open to interpretation. so like i said, its always fine to disagree.

[leadeater]

7 minutes ago, Kamjam21xx said:

Freedom of speech in the u.s. pretty much agrees with common law. But it all always open to interpretation. so like i said, its always fine to disagree.

Well I'm not disagreeing with that, just saying your statement about the US being the only country is not correct because I can in fact say New Zealand has it too.

[Razor01]

India has it as well.  Free speech there is like the wild wild west, pretty much can say anything and no one will do shit and can't do shit about it even if its grossly wrong.

[suits]

I honestly think as far as naming goes with ASUS cards they lost on this one for me. AREZ sounds way cooler than ROG. GG asus. GG.