SpaceX accidentally put a 900km hole in atmosphere last year

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

I work in construction. I know full well what a union does, and did.

I regularly work 60 to 70 hours a week.

 

I refuse to have some worthless thugs extort my money anddemand I work less and thus reducing my income. Unions were once good things, but that was well before my lifetime. Now, unions are nothing more than filthy scum strong arming companies into a deal where the only party that benefots is the heads of the union.

I think this is why right to work laws got started. Because here in Michigan you are not forced to join a union as we are an open shop state. Even though you get all the benefits of that collective bargaining. Unions have done too much to make themselves look bad. I mean Jimmy Hoffa any one? He only loaned money to the mob so they could build Vegas. 

[79wjd]

7 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I work in construction. I know full well what a union does, and did.

I regularly work 60 to 70 hours a week.

 

I refuse to have some worthless thugs extort my money anddemand I work less and thus reducing my income. Unions were once good things, but that was well before my lifetime. Now, unions are nothing more than filthy scum strong arming companies into a deal where the only party that benefots is the heads of the union.

This just reminds me of a story I heard about an electrician who was threatened to be fired because he was too productive one day.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

This just reminds me of a story I heard about an electrician who was threatened to be fired because he was too productive one day.

I'd kill the person who said that.

[Memories4K]

10 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I work in construction. I know full well what a union does, and did.

I regularly work 60 to 70 hours a week.

 

I refuse to have some worthless thugs extort my money anddemand I work less and thus reducing my income. Unions were once good things, but that was well before my lifetime. Now, unions are nothing more than filthy scum strong arming companies into a deal where the only party that benefots is the heads of the union.

Is this really a thing?
Unions will tell workers to work less efficiently?
Isn't there any pride in your work?

[ARikozuM]

3 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

This just reminds me of a story I heard about an electrician who was threatened to be fired because he was too productive one day.

Reminds me when Exelis Defense was closed for six days due to their mechanical engineering union wanting a deal to go through or something. 

 

My friend (not part of the union) and his father (part of the union) were upset at not being able to work and get paid for the week which commonly goes into overtime. His father told me that his union was being a "greedy cunt" for organizing a complete strike when very few members wanted to have a part in it. 

[Drak3]

7 minutes ago, Memories4K said:

Is this really a thing?
Unions will tell workers to work less efficiently?
Isn't there any pride in your work?

They don't demand it, they reward it.

I'm non union. I refuse to be union, because I do have pride in my work and I make more money this way.

[79wjd]

9 minutes ago, Memories4K said:

Is this really a thing?
Unions will tell workers to work less efficiently?
Isn't there any pride in your work?

$$$$

 

Some individuals have pride in their work, others (and the union as a collective whole -- mainly the head) cares only about making as much as possible.

[Donut417]

9 minutes ago, Memories4K said:

Is this really a thing?
Unions will tell workers to work less efficiently?
Isn't there any pride in your work?

At first Union's jobs were to facilitate collective bargaining. But now I think their personal agendas have clouded their purpose. Which is why we have low union membership in the US and many people who hate unions. My dad used to work for Ford, he said the UAW was pretty useless when he would bring a grievance to their attention. If unions intend on being successful they need to remember why they exist in the first place. 

[79wjd]

Just now, Donut417 said:

At first Union's jobs were to facilitate collective bargaining. But now I think their personal agendas have clouded their purpose. Which is why we have low union membership in the US and many people who hate unions. My dad used to work for Ford, he said the UAW was pretty useless when he would bring a grievance to their attention. If unions intend on being successful they need to remember why they exist in the first place. 

Yeah, to run individuals out of business and make as much money as possible. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

31 minutes ago, Memories4K said:

Is this really a thing?
Unions will tell workers to work less efficiently?
Isn't there any pride in your work?

Unions have a habit of telling their workers what to do and what not to do, and how much to do it. And they'll also throw a fit if someone else tries to do their work.

 

When I worked for my school's Student Union doing meeting setups and whatnot, there was one venue that we were responsible for setting up and stuff, but we could not do any basic janitorial work like emptying the trash cans or ask one of our janitor's to fix a toilet problem. That was the job of the school's building services, who were under a union.

 

So either we get yelled at by the customer because we can't do things in that venue, or we get yelled at by the union for doing the work they should be doing.

 

Unions are like the Homeowner's Association of workers. And don't get me started on how much HOA's are cancer.

[Memories4K]

5 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Unions are like the Homeowner's Association of workers. And don't get me started on how much HOA's are cancer.

Well, I do have a raging hatred for people who tell me what color i can paint my house or what flowers i can plant in my garden

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Memories4K said:

Well, I do have a raging hatred for people who tell me what color i can paint my house or what flowers i can plant in my garden

Or how the doors on the inside of my house looks.

 

Thank god I don't live in an HOA neighborhood.

[Guest The Viking]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

I work in construction. I know full well what a union does, and did.

I regularly work 60 to 70 hours a week.

 

I refuse to have some worthless thugs extort my money anddemand I work less and thus reducing my income. Unions were once good things, but that was well before my lifetime. Now, unions are nothing more than filthy scum strong arming companies into a deal where the only party that benefots is the heads of the union.

1. The employees themselves tried to set up a syndicate as they were unhappy of their working conditions. They got fired. It is not an union that approached them or anything. THEY tried to create one. Tesla is also the only car manufacturer in the US without an union. Do whatever you want with this info.

2. No. You do not need to join an union to benefit from it. Unions are like political parties. They will protect all the workers, regardless of if you are a member or not. And you don't need to pay anyway, paying is just to support them. 

 

Now, if you are happy with your working conditions, then why are you making me waste my time? My original comment was not even directed to you, or not even remotely covered your comments. 

 

I say it again, because it seems some people have a hard time understanding what I say, Musk can't be a socialist. And if he thinks he is, I would be very worried.

 

---------------

 

Ok I am dealing with americans who, as per usual, have completely destroyed and twisted the good things. Whatever. Yay, USA best country in the world, yay. 

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, The Viking said:

No. You do not need to join an union to benefit from it. Unions are like political parties. They will protect all the workers, regardless of if you are a member or not. And you don't need to pay anyway, paying is just to support them.

When they did good things, you did. Now, you benefit from distancing yourself from them. They don't protect anyone, they line their pockets.

 

2 minutes ago, The Viking said:

then why are you making me waste my time?

You're the only one making you waste your time.

 

3 minutes ago, The Viking said:

I say it again, because it seems some people have a hard time understanding what I say, Musk can't be a socialist. And if he thinks he is, I would be very worried.

Unions only exist under Socialistic Capitalist systems. Musk can also be a socialist, but doing what he considers required to survive in a capitalist society.

 

4 minutes ago, The Viking said:

The employees themselves tried to set up a syndicate as they were unhappy of their working conditions. They got fired. It is not an union that approached them or anything. THEY tried to create one. Tesla is also the only car manufacturer in the US without an union. Do whatever you want with this info.

As it stands, Telsa is a company that cannot deal with the excessive burden that a union brings.

 

I agree with his actions towards potential unionized workers.

[Donut417]

6 minutes ago, The Viking said:

1. The employees themselves tried to set up a syndicate as they were unhappy of their working conditions. They got fired. It is not an union that approached them or anything. THEY tried to create one. Tesla is also the only car manufacturer in the US without an union. Do whatever you want with this info.

Those employees who were fired should file complaints with the NLRB, as firing people for trying to form a Union is illegal. the NLRB could go in and help them get an election going to see who wants to unionize or not. Tesla might not have any choice. 

 

7 minutes ago, The Viking said:

2. No. You do not need to join an union to benefit from it. Unions are like political parties. They will protect all the workers, regardless of if you are a member or not. And you don't need to pay anyway, paying is just to support them. 

Depends on the state. Some states like mine are open shop. Meaning you dont have to join the union if you decided to work in a unionize place. But some states will require you to join the union or at least pay union dues. 

 

9 minutes ago, The Viking said:

I say it again, because it seems some people have a hard time understanding what I say, Musk can't be a socialist. And if he thinks he is, I would be very worried.

Id agree hes not a socialist. 

[Guest The Viking]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

Depends on the state. Some states like mine are open shop. Meaning you dont have to join the union if you decided to work in a unionize place. But some states will require you to join the union or at least pay union dues. 

i guess it's my fault for thinking that the US is as advanced as europe, as usual. I find it strange, though, that you are forced to join unions in some states and in others not. In Europe it's a choice everywhere, as far as am aware.

 

Here's some good information about unions in Europe:

 

https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relations/Across-Europe/Trade-Unions2

 

Unions here generally achieve what they want, which is mostly protecting the worker. They'll call a strike if the government wants to take away some benefit. Source does show some interesting information, such as how France has very low % of people in unions but when they call for strikes, a large amount of non-unionized workers will join in support.

 

Unions have been losing members over the years though, as, as previously mentioned, here it isn't a requirement and they'll protect you regardless. But eh. 

[dalekphalm]

For what it’s worth, in Canada, a union must vote to strike. Only if a majority of union members vote yes to strike, is it considered legal. 

 

If they don’t vote, or if they strike even after voting no, that’s illegal. 

[ADM-Ntek]

anyone else think that is just OL' Musky working on a doomsday device.

[yian88]

18 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

Ah yes, let's also roll back to pre-industrial revolution days because modern society is bad for the environment. 

Im not environmentalist, but we are killing ourselves not the environment, i keep seeing people talking about environment and climate change like its an entity of itself or a distant thing that has nothing to do with us, do you shit where you eat? cause thats what we are doing with the earth, and its no reversible.

[cj09beira]

i have been woried about this for some time now, knowing that the effects quickly dissolve is good, but we have to be careful we need our atmosphere  

[Klovnious]

On 24.3.2018 at 1:07 AM, SC2Mitch said:

When your rockets are so powerful they punch holes in the atmosphere... That's a new one. 

Don't forget what hairsprays did to the ozonelayer back when it had CFCs in it

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, yian88 said:

Im not environmentalist, but we are killing ourselves not the environment, i keep seeing people talking about environment and climate change like its an entity of itself or a distant thing that has nothing to do with us, do you shit where you eat? cause thats what we are doing with the earth, and its no reversible.

Like I said, we better revert to pre-industrial society, including killing 7 billion people or so.

[dalekphalm]

5 hours ago, yian88 said:

Im not environmentalist, but we are killing ourselves not the environment, i keep seeing people talking about environment and climate change like its an entity of itself or a distant thing that has nothing to do with us, do you shit where you eat? cause thats what we are doing with the earth, and its no reversible.

Most rocket launches are specifically angled in such a way as to prevent these kinds of holes.

 

The SpaceX rocket, however, was too lightly loaded, and there was no way around it.

 

Furthermore, the hole "healed" itself within hours.

 

Certainly, we need to be careful. But we cannot give up access to space - even orbit. It would set our society back to the 1900's. So many things rely on satellites.

 

So there's a difference between "we should be careful and try to avoid these" and "ban all launches!"

 

And I am an environmentalist (just a practical one).

[DeScruff]

23 hours ago, Drak3 said:

When they did good things, you did. Now, you benefit from distancing yourself from them. They don't protect anyone, they line their pockets.

Im a bit confused... How can an organization that doesn't exist (yet?) be corrupt?
If they were joining an already existent union that you had issues with, because they do X Y Z, I'd get you. There are a lot of bad unions out there, that keep people who should be fired still on the job, or whataver. But from what Im reading they were trying to form a completely new union that wouldn't have any of the baggage of other ones.

That is almost like judging all Taco/Mexican food restaurants because Taco Bell gave you diarrhea. Then saying "Mexican food used to be good back before I was born, but today its impossible for a good restaurant to exist because Taco Bell."