Car Enthusiast Club [Now Motorcycle friendly!] - First thread to 150k! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Mr.Dingle]

2 hours ago, Motifator said:

EVs are way better than hybrids when it comes to performance and reliability, lots of parts to go wrong on ICE. Far less on EV. Some argue that methods of charging them are not too great as the energy is still majorly generated from coal. But even then, efficiency of an EV is above a hybrid. They get over %90 efficiency in the transaction of power to the wheels. ICEs, on the other hand, stay around %60-70 or so. They lose power in the whole ignition process from the engine to the catback.

Not true . EVs like the Rimac Concepts , or Teslas , or basically any EV that has some kind of gearbox to the wheels is less than 90% efficient in power transfer . 

Same goes for hybrids , but using ICEs as a whole is less efficient way from the start , compared to an EV.

 

Reliability is up for discussion , and performance ... yea . Much faster , then your duracells run out and you gotta charge up . 

[bcredeur97]

54 minutes ago, Mr.Dingle said:

Not true . EVs like the Rimac Concepts , or Teslas , or basically any EV that has some kind of gearbox to the wheels is less than 90% efficient in power transfer . 

Same goes for hybrids , but using ICEs as a whole is less efficient way from the start , compared to an EV.

 

Reliability is up for discussion , and performance ... yea . Much faster , then your duracells run out and you gotta charge up . 

it's crazy how fast the rimac c2 is though... thing is in another era

[RevoltTrain]

Local monster truck coming through 

 

Need to do something about this ride height

[Mr.Dingle]

24 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

it's crazy how fast the rimac c2 is though... thing is in another era

To be expected . Low center of gravity , all 4 wheels powered , and very high precision control over how much and how the torque is delivered . 

 

Fun fact ... Rimac is currently looking for employees , i think around or close to 100 spots . From battery technician to R&D specialist . 

[DimasRMDO]

4 hours ago, Motifator said:

EVs are way better than hybrids when it comes to performance and reliability, lots of parts to go wrong on ICE. Far less on EV. Some argue that methods of charging them are not too great as the energy is still majorly generated from coal. But even then, efficiency of an EV is above a hybrid. They get over %90 efficiency in the transaction of power to the wheels. ICEs, on the other hand, stay around %60-70 or so. They lose power in the whole ignition process from the engine to the catback.

I agree to some of the points, but for me I want to seek compromise. hybrids can be easier to power and charge, since they can use both gasoline and electricity. They can have more range than electric cars, which can provide some peace of mind for some drivers (including me) who do not want to suddenly run out of battery in the middle of nowhere.

[Motifator]

1 hour ago, Mr.Dingle said:

Not true . EVs like the Rimac Concepts , or Teslas , or basically any EV that has some kind of gearbox to the wheels is less than 90% efficient in power transfer . 

Same goes for hybrids , but using ICEs as a whole is less efficient way from the start , compared to an EV.

 

Reliability is up for discussion , and performance ... yea . Much faster , then your duracells run out and you gotta charge up . 

There is always a gearbox, you need it for reverse. Let it be 1-speed in an EV, or a 9-speed on an ICE. They're actually around %90 efficient as far as the engine power transfer goes, look it up. Of course in comparison to ICEs, they're far more efficient. But what else are you going to compare them to? Except maybe hydrogen fuel cells.

I'd say they're more reliable for the most part. Teslas had some reliability issues, but other, lower end EVs have shown great reliability. Much less of a need for maintenance to begin with, and they don't use Duracells lol. Panasonics or other vendors, they're not for the ones with range anxiety.
 

20 minutes ago, DimasRMDO said:

I agree to some of the points, but for me I want to seek compromise. hybrids can be easier to power and charge, since they can use both gasoline and electricity. They can have more range than electric cars, which can provide some peace of mind for some drivers (including me) who do not want to suddenly run out of battery in the middle of nowhere.

Yes indeed, if range is an issue, you shouldn't be looking at EVs. I live in a place where I can charge at a closed garage or in a mall, and don't make high mileages at one go. So it's not too big of a problem as long as the car is capable of at least 350-400 km or so in one charge.

[Pixel5]

On 30.5.2018 at 2:09 PM, Motifator said:

That is one of the reasons why I'm more of a T-Bird fan, they hug up the ground better. This is a fine example of Mustang handling:
 

 

to be honest driving in a straight line is not really hard, corners at high speeds show muchmore clearly which suspension is better.

[Motifator]

4 minutes ago, Pixel5 said:

to be honest driving in a straight line is not really hard, corners at high speeds show muchmore clearly which suspension is better.

Yeah, but cornering comes down on other factors as well. What kind of drivetrain the car uses, weight balance, etc. Shocks are just one part of the whole thing.

[GlassBomb]

 

[iDeFecZx]

Ya boi got a provisional job offer workin as a truck mechanic. Things are looking up.

Meanwhile the 182 has done 400 miles this weekend without a single issue, who said french cars were unreliable *touch wood*

[bcredeur97]

52 minutes ago, GlassBomb said:

 

thats insane. 12.9 miles in <5 mins with tons of hills, turns, etc.

nothing short of amazing.

[Mr.Dingle]

1 hour ago, Motifator said:

There is always a gearbox, you need it for reverse. Let it be 1-speed in an EV, or a 9-speed on an ICE. They're actually around %90 efficient as far as the engine power transfer goes, look it up. Of course in comparison to ICEs, they're far more efficient. But what else are you going to compare them to? Except maybe hydrogen fuel cells.

I'd say they're more reliable for the most part. Teslas had some reliability issues, but other, lower end EVs have shown great reliability. Much less of a need for maintenance to begin with, and they don't use Duracells lol. Panasonics or other vendors, they're not for the ones with range anxiety.
 

Let me rephrase it then : 

 

Compared to ICEs , which are no where near 50 let alone 60% efficient , yes , electric motor are more efficient . 90% or so give or take , depending on load , temperature and a whole truckload of factors . 

 

I was referring to the quote "They get over %90 efficiency in the transaction of power to the wheels. ICEs, on the other hand, stay around %60-70 or so. They lose power in the whole ignition process from the engine to the catback."

 

May have taken it too literally but , there it says transaction of power to the wheels , which in itself is not true . Electric motor being 90% efficient ? True . 

 

And range anxiety or not , it proves the point of EVs going a long way before being mainstream . I will happily chug dinosaurs in my tank as long as it means i can cover 1300 km in a run . 

 

 

[Mr.Dingle]

1 hour ago, iDeFecZx said:

Ya boi got a provisional job offer workin as a truck mechanic. Things are looking up.

Meanwhile the 182 has done 400 miles this weekend without a single issue, who said french cars were unreliable *touch wood*

*knocks on wood* 

[bcredeur97]

I can see the future. All the car guys will put 80+ Titanium stickers on their electric cars.

[iDeFecZx]

37 minutes ago, Mr.Dingle said:

*knocks on wood* 

*knocks on rods*

[techswede]

1 hour ago, bcredeur97 said:

I can see the future. All the car guys will put 80+ Titanium stickers on their electric cars.

I'd put a little corsair badge on it too

[Motifator]

1 hour ago, Mr.Dingle said:

Let me rephrase it then : 

 

Compared to ICEs , which are no where near 50 let alone 60% efficient , yes , electric motor are more efficient . 90% or so give or take , depending on load , temperature and a whole truckload of factors . 

 

I was referring to the quote "They get over %90 efficiency in the transaction of power to the wheels. ICEs, on the other hand, stay around %60-70 or so. They lose power in the whole ignition process from the engine to the catback."

 

May have taken it too literally but , there it says transaction of power to the wheels , which in itself is not true . Electric motor being 90% efficient ? True . 

 

And range anxiety or not , it proves the point of EVs going a long way before being mainstream . I will happily chug dinosaurs in my tank as long as it means i can cover 1300 km in a run .

Yeah, I should have worded it better as well.

EVs are going to be mainstream sooner than you might think they will be. Model 3 production ramped up in double the rate, worldwide deliveries will be all available the next year, along with AWD option for $40k. It'll make a 3-series a dinosaur in comparison when they get the production and all the orders right.

It looks like you need to cover over 1000 km in one run, and that's totally fine. I can understand living in such places and having to go long distances. They're slowly getting up there. Cars of the future will most likely be powered by some form of electricity, let it be hydrogen or batteries, and you know it. The battery tech is advancing at a huge rate, companies like Samsung already made battery packs that could charge in 15 mins for 100s of kilometers. It's bound to happen.

[Mr.Dingle]

5 minutes ago, Motifator said:

Yeah, I should have worded it better as well.

EVs are going to be mainstream sooner than you might think they will be. Model 3 production ramped up in double the rate, worldwide deliveries will be all available the next year, along with AWD option for $40k. It'll make a 3-series a dinosaur in comparison when they get the production and all the orders right.

It looks like you need to cover over 1000 km in one run, and that's totally fine. I can understand living in such places and having to go long distances. They're slowly getting up there. Cars of the future will most likely be powered by some form of electricity, let it be hydrogen or batteries, and you know it. The battery tech is advancing at a huge rate, companies like Samsung already made battery packs that could charge in 15 mins for 100s of kilometers. It's bound to happen.

I dont really , just wanted to point out that EVs have a long way to go till they can offer the same mileage , repeatedly and reliably as current econoboxes .... and not to mention price . 

 

Im all for EVs ... just that , not being in the likes of Germany , US or whatever country that would invest in such stuff , EVs are a long time to come . Ironic , considering Rimac Automobili is roughly a 6 hour drive from my place 

[Motifator]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Dingle said:

I dont really , just wanted to point out that EVs have a long way to go till they can offer the same mileage , repeatedly and reliably as current econoboxes .... and not to mention price . 

 

Im all for EVs ... just that , not being in the likes of Germany , US or whatever country that would invest in such stuff , EVs are a long time to come . Ironic , considering Rimac Automobili is roughly a 6 hour drive from my place 

Now I don't think you get it. Look at the specs of the new Roadster, it's capable of 1000 km in one go, and what does it compare to? Take the Chiron, it's an absolute joke in every way when you compare them. It's not just the new Roadster that does this either. Your typical high end ICEs like Maseratis actually go just as much as a Tesla goes in one charge, about 500-700 kilometers in urban. You can't just take your Citroen with a 1.4 liter engine, that goes over 1000 kms with a full tank of gas and compare it to a Model S. It makes NO sense. You need to compare cars of the same class, I.E, an ICE with a V8 against Model S.

Tesla offers years of warranty on their cars, so your point is moot. You'll have a part of the ICE either fail or need to be serviced WAY before an EV goes bad. When one of the batteries in an EV goes off, the car just goes on with the rest of the left batteries. The only one battery that can't do that on top of my head is the 12V battery in the Model S, but that's really a basic fix. Price, yes, they're on the expensive end. But it'll pretty much come out of being an all around niche market with the Model 3.

I don't know why you guys continue mentioning Rimac either, it's just a tiny Croatian company that made a handful of supercars. They reflect close to ZERO of the whole EV community. However, the guy and his crew did make an incredibly high end EV, that's for sure.

[bcredeur97]

2 minutes ago, Motifator said:

Now I don't think you get it. Look at the specs of the new Roadster, it's capable of 1000 km in one go, and what does it compare to? Take the Chiron, it's an absolute joke in every way when you compare them. It's not just the new Roadster that does this either. Your typical high end ICEs like Maseratis actually go just as much as a Tesla goes in one charge, about 500-700 kilometers in urban. You can't just take your Citroen with a 1.4 liter engine, that goes over 1000 kms with a full tank of gas and compare it to a Model S. It makes NO sense. You need to compare cars of the same class, I.E, an ICE with a V8 against Model S.

Tesla offers years of warranty on their cars, so your point is moot. You'll have a part of the ICE either fail or need to be serviced WAY before an EV goes bad. When one of the batteries in an EV goes off, the car just goes on with the rest of the left batteries. The only one battery that can't do that on top of my head is the 12V battery in the Model S, but that's really a basic fix. Price, yes, they're on the expensive end. But it'll pretty much come out of being an all around niche market with the Model 3.

I don't know why you guys continue mentioning Rimac either, it's just a tiny Croatian company that made a handful of supercars. They reflect close to ZERO of the whole EV community. However, the guy and his crew did make an incredibly high end EV, that's for sure.

I think his point is that a cheap electric car with comparable range and power and such to a cheap ICE car does not yet exist?

also too lack of places to charge and time to charge is still a factor currently. you really need MORE range than a gas car to effectively use an electric car just to make up for the lack of places and time to charge current electric cars.

[Motifator]

1 minute ago, bcredeur97 said:

I think his point is that a cheap electric car with comparable range and power and such to a cheap ICE car does not yet exist?

also too lack of places to charge and time to charge is still a factor currently. you really need MORE range than a gas car to effectively use an electric car just to make up for the lack of places and time to charge current electric cars.

They exist more in the Asian countries, because of the rural pollution. But yeah, the whole point of going with ICE over electric is budget anyhow.

Range... well, yeah it's going to be an issue if you live in Texas or somewhere like that. Not a problem in a city with charging spots (albeit rarely) and a closed garage for me.

[Mr.Dingle]

10 minutes ago, Motifator said:

Now I don't think you get it. Look at the specs of the new Roadster, it's capable of 1000 km in one go, and what does it compare to? Take the Chiron, it's an absolute joke in every way when you compare them. It's not just the new Roadster that does this either. Your typical high end ICEs like Maseratis actually go just as much as a Tesla goes in one charge, about 500-700 kilometers in urban. You can't just take your Citroen with a 1.4 liter engine, that goes over 1000 kms with a full tank of gas and compare it to a Model S. It makes NO sense. You need to compare cars of the same class, I.E, an ICE with a V8 against Model S.

Tesla offers years of warranty on their cars, so your point is moot. You'll have a part of the ICE either fail or need to be serviced WAY before an EV goes bad. When one of the batteries in an EV goes off, the car just goes on with the rest of the left batteries. The only one battery that can't do that on top of my head is the 12V battery in the Model S, but that's really a basic fix. Price, yes, they're on the expensive end. But it'll pretty much come out of being an all around niche market with the Model 3.

I don't know why you guys continue mentioning Rimac either, it's just a tiny Croatian company that made a handful of supercars. They reflect close to ZERO of the whole EV community. However, the guy and his crew did make an incredibly high end EV, that's for sure.

 

5 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

I think his point is that a cheap electric car with comparable range and power and such to a cheap ICE car does not yet exist?

also too lack of places to charge and time to charge is still a factor currently. you really need MORE range than a gas car to effectively use an electric car just to make up for the lack of places and time to charge current electric cars.

@bcredeur97 sums it up nicely. 

[bcredeur97]

going to miss engine noises tho. le sigh

[Motifator]

1 minute ago, bcredeur97 said:

going to miss engine noises tho. le sigh

Some electric brush motors do make noise at high revolutions. The original Tesla Roadster engine did over 10k RPM, ending up making that whine sound at higher speeds. Though, I've sat in one and the interior felt like it was designed for a midget.

Zero bikes also do this.

[bcredeur97]

15 minutes ago, Motifator said:

Some electric brush motors do make noise at high revolutions. The original Tesla Roadster engine did over 10k RPM, ending up making that whine sound at higher speeds. Though, I've sat in one and the interior felt like it was designed for a midget.

Zero bikes also do this.

but whine is more annoying than cool.