Office 2019 to support Windows 10 ONLY (but also MacOS)

[vanished]

29 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

I'm sorry but why is this news @Ryan_Vickers ? Windows 7 & Windows 8.1 are on life support because they have an obligation to existing customers to not screw them over.

Because in the past any version of Office has run - officially supported or otherwise - on a wide range of Windows versions, but it appears they have made the decision to artificially lock it down to Windows 10 to encourage adoption.  I do not have confirmation but they make it sound like they're even killing the Mac version (at this point if it turns out they are actually keeping it I would say that source was straight up misleading).

29 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Also, Office 2019 is rumored to be the last time Office can be purchased as a Perpetual License. Also, Office 2019 will have a super short lifespan (will be EOL at the same time as Office 2016).

good info

[AlTech]

13 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I do not have confirmation but they make it sound like they're even killing the Mac version (at this point if it turns out they are actually keeping it I would say that source was straight up misleading).

What? That's stupid. They (Microsoft) just finished merging the sources of Mac and Windows together to make it easier to develop Mac versions going forward.

[vanished]

4 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

What? That's stupid. They (Microsoft) just finished merging the sources of Mac and Windows together to make it easier to develop Mac versions going forward.

Yes, it is.  How would you interpret "Microsoft has announced that their newest edition of their ever-popular office software package Office 2019 will only be available to users of Windows 10."  though?  To me, this can only have one meaning: that it will run on Win 10 and nothing else.  ie, that it will not run on Mac and thus Mac Office is dead.

[AlTech]

10 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yes, it is.  How would you interpret "Microsoft has announced that their newest edition of their ever-popular office software package Office 2019 will only be available to users of Windows 10."  though?  To me, this can only have one meaning: that it will run on Win 10 and nothing else.  ie, that it will not run on Mac and thus Mac Office is dead.

Yes. But knowing the way sensationalist butthurt journalists write, I wouldn't be surprised if in fact it is available to mac users (albeit macOS 10.11/10.12 or newer).

[vanished]

6 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Yes. But knowing the way sensationalist butthurt journalists write, I wouldn't be surprised if in fact it is available to mac users (albeit macOS 10.11/10.12 or newer).

That would be some pretty serious "read between the lines".

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

That would be some pretty serious "read between the lines".

Nha.. it's not the first time. You just need to keep in mind that the media aren't tech savvy, quick to report with little research/questioning.

Very few journalist will go beyond and provide better details. I see time and time again the same thing.

MS has 0 benefit in locking Office to Windows, let alone to 10, people would just switch to something else. Why do you think MS made Word, Excel, and PowerPoint on phones and tablets? People were switching to something else... so to stop from doing that and bring people back, they did this. It won't change.

[vanished]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

Nha.. it's not the first time. You just need to keep in mind that the media aren't tech savvy, quick to report with little research/questioning.

Very few journalist will go beyond and provide better details. I see time and time again the same thing.

MS has 0 benefit in locking Office to Windows, let alone to 10, people would just switch. Why do you think MS made Word, Excel, and PowerPoint on phones and tablets? People were switching... so to stop and bring people back, they did this.

If we can find a source that clearly stated that this means only other windows versions are being locked out but that Mac Office will remain I will update OP

actually nvm I found one in my own source

Originally I just had the one source but I quickly found others to support it... guess I should have read them as well though

Edited February 7, 2018 by Ryan_Vickers

[GoodBytes]

3 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

If we can find a source that clearly stated that this means only other windows versions are being locked out but that Mac Office will remain I will update OP

actually nvm I found one in my own source

Originally I just had the one source but I quickly found others to support it... guess I should have read them as well though

Quote

This won’t affect Office for Mac, which is a separate product with a different release schedule. Microsoft is also altering the support lifecycle for Office 2019, so it will receive 5 years of mainstream support and then “approximately 2 years of extended support.”

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/1/16960640/microsoft-office-2019-windows-10-support

 

As you can see Mac version will still be supported, updated, and maybe have a new version with its branch.

[dalekphalm]

18 hours ago, Jito463 said:

If I did get a newer version than 2003, it would be either 2007 or 2010.  Anything newer, and it relies on activation with a Live account.  I prefer the older method of activation with a key code.  At least with versions <=2010, you could retrieve the product key from the computer.  With 2013 and newer, there is no key saved locally.  It's all managed through your MS Live account.

 

If I was really forced to get something newer than MSO 2010, I'd probably switch to a free program like Open Office or Libre Office instead.

FYI this isn’t correct. Office 2013 works totally fine without a Microsoft account. We are using it on over 100 computers in such a way. 

 

Cant say for 2016, but I would be surprised if that different from 2013 in that regard. 

 

With that in mind, sure none of the cloud type features or OneDrive integration will work without signing in, but most people probably don’t even use those features anyway. 

 

I can’t speak as to whether you can easily recover the Product Key with third party software or not. Never tried with the newer versions. 

3 hours ago, Deletist_Jerk said:

Surface Pro is the only machine running Office in my house. 

 

My ex girlfriend introduced me to OpenOffice, and that seems to be working fine for most home related documents and work. 

At work, I don't know how the Navy is going to integrate Office 2019, should they upgrade...since upgrading to Windows 10 has caused major disruptions to some security controls.  

You should tell your girlfriend (ex?) to switch to LibreOffice instead. You should also switch. 

 

OpenOffice has been abandoned. And LibreOffice is a fork of it anyway that is still being developed. 

[ProjectBox153]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

FYI this isn’t correct. Office 2013 works totally fine without a Microsoft account. We are using it on over 100 computers in such a way. 

 

Cant say for 2016, but I would be surprised if that different from 2013 in that regard.

Agreed, Office 2013 and 2016 don't REQUIRE a Microsoft account, but they do use it for licensing in some cases.

[GoodBytes]

3 minutes ago, Jamiec1130 said:

Agreed, Office 2013 and 2016 don't REQUIRE a Microsoft account, but they do use it for licensing in some cases.

Nha, you can enter a product key.

And users can link their own OneDrive account or corporate one if they want.

[dalekphalm]

8 minutes ago, Jamiec1130 said:

Agreed, Office 2013 and 2016 don't REQUIRE a Microsoft account, but they do use it for licensing in some cases.

Only if they are using said Office as part of O365. 

 

If you buy the standalone full copy of office, licensing is done via a product key. 

[Tieox]

So Office '19 is loosing the annual license and moving to a 365 type subscription or have I got crossed wires here? 

 

Most of the peoples computers I maintain are running 2013, with the odd person using 365 on a monthly payment plan.  

[GoodBytes]

17 minutes ago, Kierax said:

So Office '19 is loosing the annual license and moving to a 365 type subscription or have I got crossed wires here? 

 

Most of the peoples computers I maintain are running 2013, with the odd person using 365 on a monthly payment plan.  

?!

Office 365 is a subscription service to get Office suit of software. You can pay per month or per year, you choose.

Office 2016/2019 is a part of the suit of software that Office 365 offers.

 

Until we have any official statement from Microsoft. Office can be acquired via subscription (Office 365), or purchased via a one time payment. Regardless of the option you get, you have the Office software suit (with the apps associated with the edition acquired), updated as updated are released.

 

The only major difference is that if you have Office 365, you get upgraded to the latest Office as it gets released. If you have purchase Office 2016, like prior editions of Office, you won't get a free upgrade to the new version. You'll need to buy a new license for it, if you want it.

[xriqn]

Tbh its kind of a good thing that they're moving away from legacy. Most ppl who still run legacy windows aren't running a legit version so what makes MS want to support an OS revision that has majority cracked licenses now?

[GoodBytes]

Just now, xriqn said:

Tbh its kind of a good thing that they're moving away from legacy. Most ppl who still run legacy windows aren't running a legit version so what makes MS want to support an OS revision that has majority cracked licenses now?

While you are probably correct if you include countries like China, but that is not the reality of why they are doing. Pirates would just use the latest Office that fit their needs. It is really MS wanting to support 2x Office suit in Windows. UWP Mobile Office, and the full Win32 Office. Having 1 Office, makes more sense, and no need to support legacy versions of Windows, reducing cost substantially. Plus, they use it as another example of the UWP platform and what you can do with it for devs. Also, it helps push UWP team to push its development, by having Office team and other teams of other UWP apps to complain on certain lacking features. For example: when UWP was release it could not support multiple instances of an app. This has been added, and Calculator shows it working.

[Tieox]

17 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

?!

Office 365 is a subscription service to get Office suit of software. You can pay per month or per year, you choose.

Office 2016/2019 is a part of the suit of software that Office 365 offers.

 

Until we have any official statement from Microsoft. Office can be acquired via subscription (Office 365), or purchased via a one time payment. Regardless of the option you get, you have the Office software suit (with the apps associated with the edition acquired), updated as updated are released.

 

The only major difference is that if you have Office 365, you get upgraded to the latest Office as it gets released. If you have purchase Office 2016, like prior editions of Office, you won't get a free upgrade to the new version. You'll need to buy a new license for it, if you want it.

Thanks, forgive my ignorance I just use Google for any document needs, not had requirement of Office personally since Office 2002.

[Greenver_420]

Client operating systems            End of mainstream support            End of extended support

 

Windows XP SP3                        April 21, 2008                                April 8, 2014
Windows Vista Service Pack 2    April 10, 2012                                April 11, 2017
Windows 7, service pack 1*       January 13, 2015                           January 14, 2020 
Windows 8.1                              January 9, 2018                            January 10, 2023

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Office version                         End of mainstream support    End of extended support

Office Professional 2007        N/A                                         October 10, 2017
Office 2010 Service Pack 2    October 13, 2015                  October 13, 2020
Office 2013 Service Pack 1    April 10, 2018                       April 11, 2023
Office Professional 2016        October 13, 2020                October 14, 2025

 

 

Sources: https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet , https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/lifecycle/search?alpha=Windows & https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/help/3198497/office-2007-approaching-end-of-extended-support

Edited February 7, 2018 by Greenver_420
Formatting

[Jito463]

13 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Have they given any reason for this? Like, Office 2019 will be an UWP app which won't run on anything but Windows, or something along those lines? It seems foolish to me to artificially limit your market just to try and sell and get more people onto Windows 10.

If that turns out to be true, then I wouldn't have to worry about whether I'd run Office 2019, as I completely erased the Store from my computer.

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

FYI this isn’t correct. Office 2013 works totally fine without a Microsoft account. We are using it on over 100 computers in such a way. 

1 hour ago, Jamiec1130 said:

Agreed, Office 2013 and 2016 don't REQUIRE a Microsoft account, but they do use it for licensing in some cases.

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Nha, you can enter a product key.

All the copies of Office 2013+ that I've installed for customers has required linking the activation to a MS Live account.  Yes, you type in the product key initially, but it won't complete activation without an account.  If the software ever needs reinstalled (such as in the case of a format/reload), the product key would not work because it's already tied to the Live account.  I'm sure it's different in a corporate environment, but I'm referring to end users.

[ProjectBox153]

1 minute ago, Jito463 said:

If that turns out to be true, then I wouldn't have to worry about whether I'd run Office 2019, as I completely erased the Store from my computer.

All the copies of Office 2013+ that I've installed for customers has required linking the activation to a MS Live account.  Yes, you type in the product key initially, but it won't complete activation without an account.  If the software ever needs reinstalled (such as in the case of a format/reload), the product key would not work because it's already tied to the Live account.  I'm sure it's different in a corporate environment, but I'm referring to end users.

I've not had to do that, even though my MS Account was linked to the purchase of Office and not windows. 

[dalekphalm]

22 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

If that turns out to be true, then I wouldn't have to worry about whether I'd run Office 2019, as I completely erased the Store from my computer.

All the copies of Office 2013+ that I've installed for customers has required linking the activation to a MS Live account.  Yes, you type in the product key initially, but it won't complete activation without an account.  If the software ever needs reinstalled (such as in the case of a format/reload), the product key would not work because it's already tied to the Live account.  I'm sure it's different in a corporate environment, but I'm referring to end users.

I would suggest that this is a limitation of the type of Key you've purchased.

 

You can definitely buy MAK keys (legally) that will not require any sort of authentication with a Microsoft account. Though, of course, the price may not be as good

[ShredBird]

On 2/7/2018 at 12:47 AM, LAwLz said:

Do you have any evidence to support the claim that Windows 10 is more secure than Windows 7? Newer does not necessarily mean more secure, especially not in the case of Windows since the potential attack surface is much larger in 10 than in 7.

Newer != more secure

Well,

For one thing, full UEFI support.  Lack of secure boot leaves BIOS based machines vulnerable to rootkit attacks.  Windows 10 also includes many virtualization based security (VBS) features, which significantly reduces the exploitable attack vectors.  A system known as Trusted Boot does code validation at boot up to ensure critical code has not been modified and allows for something called Early Launch Anti Malware.  Some malware will hijack your boot sequence to thwart anti-malware software, this feature ensures anti malware launches first so that malware cannot modify its launch.  There isn't just this however, there were many features that were baked into Windows 8/8.1 that can be listed as well.  Windows 10 also forces updates and has Windows defender built in.  Majority of systems that are compromised are not maintained.  Win 10 is vulnerable to fewer existing threats out of the box due to its architectural changes and it's less likely to fall out of date enabling more attacks.  Its built in browser Edge is vastly more secure than IE and includes VBS features as well.

Paradigm shift in design, security actively being baked into the kernel to counter modern threats.  Antimalware software built in.  OS keeps itself up to date no matter what and includes a more secure browser that also keeps itself up to date.  These are all the reasons it's more secure than Win 7 in general.  I'm not saying that competent IT department can't make Win 7 fairly secure with added layers of security, it's the general population that matters the most to thwart things like botnets and ransomware and ID theft etc.  A compromised machine is an attack vector to other machines.  The fewer there are, the fewer attack vectors and all the reason to switch to something more secure out of the box.

I'm not sure what you mean about the potential attack surface being bigger with 10, all the things I mentioned reduce the potential attack surface.  Does that mean, Win 10 is perfect?  No, but it's been built from the ground up in a way that actively mitigates more modern ways that Win 7 is just incapable of.

[Mihle]

On 7.2.2018 at 8:05 PM, dalekphalm said:

Only if they are using said Office as part of O365. 

 

If you buy the standalone full copy of office, licensing is done via a product key. 

You don't need to be logged in on the programs itself on office 365 if you get free licence from school. Well, as long as you don't use OneDrive

 

You only need to log in to a user you get from the school on the net to download it first time.

[jaggysnake57]

i dont know why people are shocked by this, they have been pushing windows 10 for some time. as annoying as windows 10 can be, people really need to get on it. i mean its not going any where and windows 7/8/8.1 are loosing support soon.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, ShredBird said:

Well,

For one thing, full UEFI support.  Lack of secure boot leaves BIOS based machines vulnerable to rootkit attacks.  Windows 10 also includes many virtualization based security (VBS) features, which significantly reduces the exploitable attack vectors.  A system known as Trusted Boot does code validation at boot up to ensure critical code has not been modified and allows for something called Early Launch Anti Malware.  Some malware will hijack your boot sequence to thwart anti-malware software, this feature ensures anti malware launches first so that malware cannot modify its launch.  There isn't just this however, there were many features that were baked into Windows 8/8.1 that can be listed as well.  Windows 10 also forces updates and has Windows defender built in.  Majority of systems that are compromised are not maintained.  Win 10 is vulnerable to fewer existing threats out of the box due to its architectural changes and it's less likely to fall out of date enabling more attacks.  Its built in browser Edge is vastly more secure than IE and includes VBS features as well.

Paradigm shift in design, security actively being baked into the kernel to counter modern threats.  Antimalware software built in.  OS keeps itself up to date no matter what and includes a more secure browser that also keeps itself up to date.  These are all the reasons it's more secure than Win 7 in general.  I'm not saying that competent IT department can't make Win 7 fairly secure with added layers of security, it's the general population that matters the most to thwart things like botnets and ransomware and ID theft etc.  A compromised machine is an attack vector to other machines.  The fewer there are, the fewer attack vectors and all the reason to switch to something more secure out of the box.

I'm not sure what you mean about the potential attack surface being bigger with 10, all the things I mentioned reduce the potential attack surface.  Does that mean, Win 10 is perfect?  No, but it's been built from the ground up in a way that actively mitigates more modern ways that Win 7 is just incapable of.

Just so that we are on the same page. The things you listed as reasons why Windows 10 is more secure than Windows 7 are:

1) Secure Boot support.

2) VBS

3) Forced updates

4) The Edge browser

5) Anti-virus built in.

 

Is that correct? I know you mentioned some other things such as "paradigm shift in design" but since that is very vague I don't think that counts (unless you can elaborate on it more of course).

 

The first two are legitimate features which improve security. I think number 3-4 aren't though, and number 5 is a big stretch.

 

Forced updates does not offer any more protection that just updating in general, which most people had enabled in Windows 7 too. The ones that were usually behind with Windows 7 updates were companies, and the forced update policy of Windows 10 does not apple to them. They still have full control over updates just like they did with Windows 7 (through WSUS). So in practice not much has changed, other than force "power users" to do workarounds like disable the entire update service rather than just not installing updates.

 

The inclusion of edge does not increase security because IE is still included. That is what increasing attack surface means. Instead of having one browser to attack, you now have two. Attackers now has both IE and Edge to look at for potential security holes, while they used to only have one. That means the attack surface is increased, not reduced. Also, IE and Edge shares a lot of code and are fairly often vulnerable to the same attacks.

 

Built-in anti-virus is a stretch because that only offers extra protection to people who did not have an anti-virus before. That might be some (stupid) people, but it does not offer for example me any extra security.

 

 

2 hours ago, ShredBird said:

I'm not sure what you mean about the potential attack surface being bigger with 10, all the things I mentioned reduce the potential attack surface. 

None of the things you mentioned reduces the attack surface.

When I say attack surface I mean this:

Quote

1. the sum of all paths for data/commands into and out of the application, and
2. the code that protects these paths (including resource connection and authentication, authorization, activity logging, data validation and encoding), and
3. all valuable data used in the application, including secrets and keys, intellectual property, critical business data, personal data and PII, and
4. the code that protects these data (including encryption and checksums, access auditing, and data integrity and operational security controls).

Each new feature or function which gets introduced in a system increases the attack surface.

That's one of the reasons why there have been more publicly know vulnerabilities disclosed for Windows 10 than Windows 7. Here is the number of vulnerabilities found in Windows 7 vs Windows 10 each year since Windows 10 was released. Please note that Windows 7 have had more users than Windows 10 up until very recently as well, so this has nothing to do with "people are looking into Windows 10 more than they are Windows 7!"

 

2015 (please note that Windows 10 was only out for 5 months during 2015):

Windows 7 - 174

Windows 10 - 53

 

2016:

Windows 7 - 134

Windows 10 -172

 

2017:

Windows 7 - 229

Windows 10 - 268

 

2018:

Windows 7 - 7

Windows 10 - 11

 

It's also worth noting that a lot of the Windows 7 vulnerabilities are shared with Windows 10. So a vulnerability that works on Windows 7 often works on Windows 10 as well, but a vulnerability for Windows 10 quite often doesn't work on Windows 7.

Please keep in mind that these are just publicly disclosed vulnerabilities though, and that the number of vulnerabilities are not an indicator of how quickly they were fixed or how serious they were.

I think this illustrates the fact that Windows 10 has a larger attack surface than Windows 7 quite clearly though.

 

 

Anyway, I don't think your post proves anything. You can list a lot of things which can increase security in theory, but how successful they are at stopping attacks is very much dependent on how common the attacks they stop are, how well implemented the features are, and that they don't introduce even more serious security holes than the ones they are trying to fix.

 

Measuring security is far more complicated than just looking at a product and going "OS 1 has features X, and OS 2 doesn't, so therefore OS 1 is more secure".