US Rep proposes Gov Ban on Huawei, ZTE under "National security" grounds

[Taf the Ghost]

20 minutes ago, Bit_Guardian said:

I'm sorry but that is demonstrably false, plainly visible in the trades of musical instruments, jewellery, computer technology, beer/wine/spirits, and agriculture. That Joe Owner sold his small shop to a conglomerate which then profited more as it had the brand recognition is independent entirely.

 

Now "Free Trade" hasn't exactly been free and on a level field, but that doesn't change the fact the world economy is global, and nothing governments even want to do about it will be able to stop that.

As I said, "[y]ou might want to find better sources for understanding of Global Economics", then again, most sources are pure propaganda anyway. That might not be the best advice, so a quick primer.

 

If you live in a modern economy, what you see is a combination of controlled higher prices in staples (to exfiltrate wealth) and lowered prices in consumables to drive out local production & allow non-local companies to profit off the wage arbitrage from a foreign land. Those foreign lands are generally getting pillaged of their resources in the production of goods to be sold in another land, while the fairly hefty profit is extracted from the modern economy. All but the newest markets are completely "captured" by their biggest players and the banks that fund the entire operation.

 

All of this is done on a mountain of debt that you, as the normal, will be expected to have your life ruined to, eventually, be paid off. Even if you keep your own personal debt to zero, your currency will be intentionally devalued through the propagation of lending by commercial banks and the occasional intervention of the Central Banks. (If that surprises you, here's the Bank of England's explanation of the process.) 

 

Realistically all you're seeing is a massive Debt Bubble akin to what caused events like the Great Depression, Japanese Bubble, Asian Crash of 97, DotCom Bubble or GFC of 2008. Same effect, just on a larger scale. China has a debt level far higher than Japan's when that exploded back in 1990, which is why they're doing many things to prevent a replay of the Japanese event. One of the main things they're doing is massively subsidizing practically everything they produce, through various means. It's very hard for anyone to compete with a company that doesn't have to make a profit. (This is why cross-subsidization is illegal in modern economies.) 

 

You can see a good run of this issue with Silicon Valley. The entirety of Web-Video has been subsidized the entire time. YouTube has cost Google possible 10 billion USD or more over the last decade. (They might, recently, be in the black, but that's questionable.) Everyone just expects high-quality, on-demand Video now, yet it's never made any Profit. It's been an utterly massive money sink because it had other utility to many parties. (Information Control has its own value, and it's clearly worth billions.) Even LMG has sensed this problem, thus the creation of Floatplane. 

 

Pretty much everyone is used to massively distorted Markets that, at first glance, appear to be to their benefit. (If they live in a modern economy.) However, they are being undermined cent by cent because wealth is being removed from the large mass of citizens into the hands of a very small elite. It all comes back to Power, Control & Wealth acquired through insider information or setting up the situations themselves. Add in a media that's owned by the major companies, and you get hosannas written to the awe & might of the multi-national corporation and banks. It's a pretty good game, if you're on the inside.

[leadeater]

Remember to keep discussion on topic and when necessary to talk about it political comments strictly on topic.

[ItsMitch]

13 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Remember to keep discussion on topic and when necessary to talk about it political comments strictly on topic.

yes i agree with this man, lets keep this topic nice, thx friends

[Drak3]

Eh, Huawei doesn't really offer anything over the other OEMs anymore so it's not really that sad.

34 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Remember to keep discussion on topic and when necessary to talk about it political comments strictly on topic.

So, what your saying is start a flame war over US military policies.

 

Bad moderator, bad!

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

So, what your saying is start a flame war over US military policies.

 

Bad moderator, bad!

I can ban myself , which I can't remove if I do it lol.

 

But no flame wars are also explicitly not allowed too, that is in the CS also.

[Drak3]

Just now, leadeater said:

I can ban myself

Is there at least a confirmation before one does so?

[captain_to_fire]

2 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Is there at least a confirmation before one does so?

Maybe a mod can see their own IP address and their own email address 

[Trixanity]

11 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

Apple designs their own chips mind you and they have the freedom not to follow instruction set and design of ARM if they wish to. An example of which is when Apple surprised everyone in 2013 when they released the first commercially available 64-bit ARM SoC (A7 chip with M7 motion coprocessor and Secure Enclave coprocessor) when during that time ARM didn’t released the specs of 64-bit ARM SoC just yet. 

 

People love to put Apple under the bus all the time but Apple controlling both hardware and software gives them an edge than other phone OEMs when it comes to security. 

You've misunderstood the situation.

There is a difference between ISA and microarchitecture. ARMv8 (ISA) was unveiled in 2011. Only later was an ARM designed microarchitecture (A53 and A57) unveiled in 2012 with a projected launch years later because 64-bit wasn't really necessary at the time but was the natural progression. I don't think the general ecosystem started benefiting from 64-bit until 2015 or 2016. And I do think the importance of 64-bit at the time of Apple's announcement was way overblown. The processor was much faster but I'm sure it could largely be accomplished on 32-bit (not to mention improvements from ARMv8 itself which is both 32 and 64 bit). 

 

Could Apple diverge from the ISA? Probably. But I imagine it causing issues at first with compilers and probably elsewhere as well. However I'm not actually sure Apple is allowed to modify the ISA legally speaking. Then again, why would they?

[Mindersteve]

So at this point we're just banning anything that has a threat to national security? 

 

Russian Vodka could plant a microscopic microphone in your stomach. BAN ALL IMPORTS FROM THE COMMIE MOTHERLAND!

[Trik'Stari]

Perhaps if our "representatives" would wake the hell up, they could convince their corporate masters to manufacture some of these things in our own country instead of overseas.

[Carclis]

15 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Perhaps if our "representatives" would wake the hell up, they could convince their corporate masters to manufacture some of these things in our own country instead of overseas.

I think the better solution is to avoid dealing in sensitive information on devices which were designed to collect as much information from you as possible.

[Sauron]

15 hours ago, leadeater said:

I can understand why, although I'd expect something more along the lines of requiring American made rather than singling out two companies like this.

And honestly it's still stupid, they should regulate data collection if they're worried but since they do it just as much if not more they wouldn't dare.

12 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

You might want to find better sources for understanding of Global Economics. Or you've drank the coolaid too much on "Free Trade". Sure, the paid propaganda folks are going nuts right now, but the only ones that have ever made money off the Global Scale Trade has been the biggest Multi-national corporations, Financial Institutions and Government Officials (via legal & illegal corruption). 

 

Related, the Trump Administration will be leaving NAFTA in either March or April. Depends how stupid Canada plays things. (Which has been really, really stupid.) Our wonderful Canadians friends would do really well to get someone that isn't a wet noodle to run their government. (But the man has very good hair, so that's something.)

Do you really think small companies don't benefit from the success of large ones? The only reason the US is currently so relevant is its continued success in technology and fuel export. Honestly I'd almost like to see the US wall itself in and slowly become irrelevant since they seem to want it so badly. It's funny how they point at NK as this terrible dictatorship that doesn't want external "meddling" and then proceed to try and do the exact same. The US has been completely unable to leave other countries the fudge alone for the last 70 years and as soon as anyone mentions the possibility of other nations meddling in their affairs they act outraged.

 

At least the "wet noodle" isn't single handedly alienating his allies, destroying the credibility of his nation and undoing every positive step forward of the last two decades when it comes to his citizen's well being and world stability.

[Sauron]

1 hour ago, Trik'Stari said:

Perhaps if our "representatives" would wake the hell up, they could convince their corporate masters to manufacture some of these things in our own country instead of overseas.

Nooooooo, don't you get it, THEY can meddle with other countries' economies, invade their markets and use their cheap labour all the want - but doing it to THEM, now THAT is eeeevil and anti-freedom.

[Misanthrope]

And this comes hot on the tail of Huawei apparently having a major victory against Samsung in China:

 

https://www.techspot.com/news/72733-huawei-wins-patent-lawsuit-against-samsung-china.html

 

Funny how that worked. Very. Fucking. Funny.

[Trik'Stari]

1 hour ago, Misanthrope said:

And this comes hot on the tail of Huawei apparently having a major victory against Samsung in China:

 

https://www.techspot.com/news/72733-huawei-wins-patent-lawsuit-against-samsung-china.html

 

Funny how that worked. Very. Fucking. Funny.

I didn't think China had patent or copyright laws.

[Sauron]

2 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

I didn't think China had patent or copyright laws.

They do when it suits them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Trik'Stari]

Just now, Sauron said:

They do when it suits them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As I would expect.

[Drak3]

29 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

I didn't think China had patent or copyright laws.

In practice, they don't. Highly doubt there are even translations for the words "copyright" and "patent."

[johnukguy]

This is nothing to do with security. It's about cutting off any competition to over priced products from the like of Apple and others.

[ItsMitch]

14 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

This is nothing to do with security. It's about cutting off any competition to over priced products from the like of Apple and others.

Quote

(12) In the bipartisan House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence “Investigative Report on the United States National Security Issues Posed by Chinese Telecommunication Companies Huawei and ZTE” released in 2012, it was recommended that “U.S. government systems, particularly sensitive systems, should not include Huawei or ZTE equipment, including in component parts. Similarly, government contractors – particularly those working on contracts for sensitive U.S. programs – should exclude ZTE or Huawei equipment in their systems.”.

Quote

(5) General Michael Hayden, who served as Director of the Central Intelligence Agency and Director of the National Security Agency, stated in July 2013 that Huawei had “shared with the Chinese state intimate and extensive knowledge of foreign telecommunications systems it is involved with.”.

Oh really?

[pzspah]

24 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

This is nothing to do with security. It's about cutting off any competition to over priced products from the like of Apple and others.

 

On the flip side they could have said 'we are going to ban use of these brands, unless they're made on US soil with transparency'

[Trixanity]

10 minutes ago, SC2Mitch said:

Oh really?

Isn't it Hayden who has ties to competitors of Huawei making him have a huge conflict of interest?

[Jito463]

16 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

China's industrial espionage system works on the "thousand leaves on the wind" approach. They tend to apply that as well to normal espionage. Given China's Electronic Warfare approach, no government officials should use any Chinese-made device.

 

That last little bit points to something to expect to see over the next decade: In-Sourcing. Governments are going to start requiring more things to be built locally, almost explicitly for security reasons. US Defense Tech is mostly done that way, and a lot of countries are going to go that direction if they can.

This is a major part of why we'll (thankfully) never see a 1-world government, no matter how much the lefties desire it.

 

3 hours ago, Sauron said:

Honestly I'd almost like to see the US wall itself in and slowly become irrelevant since they seem to want it so badly. It's funny how they point at NK as this terrible dictatorship that doesn't want external "meddling" and then proceed to try and do the exact same. The US has been completely unable to leave other countries the fudge alone for the last 70 years and as soon as anyone mentions the possibility of other nations meddling in their affairs they act outraged.

So much distorted and wrong within this paragraph, but countering your faulty points goes well into the "political discussion" realm, which mods frown on.

[SurvivorNVL]

1 minute ago, Jito463 said:

This is a major part of why we'll (thankfully) never see a 1-world government, no matter how much the lefties desire it.

 

So much distorted and wrong within this paragraph, but countering your faulty points goes well into the "political discussion" realm, which mods frown on.

Globalist dreams are effectively dead as it is, not to get too political, but Multipolarism(Dugin's vision) is more likely.  

Though the U.S. walling itself in and focusing inward / being isolationist would be wonderful.  Lot to fix in the country, and a lot always going wrong.

[ItsMitch]

32 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Isn't it Hayden who has ties to competitors of Huawei making him have a huge conflict of interest?

Im not too sure, I'll check it up