More Intel leaks.. this one is not good though

[sazrocks]

Just now, Bit_Guardian said:

The vendors will have them

 

Recompiling for anything smaller than an OS is like 10 minutes max.

You are still missing the point. Most vendors can't be bothered/have no way to recompile their programs for a different arch. Not to mention for many programs that weren't designed with the new arch in mind there will be significant performance hits.

[Bit_Guardian]

1 minute ago, sazrocks said:

You are still missing the point. Most vendors can't be bothered/have no way to recompile their programs for a different arch. Not to mention for many programs that weren't designed with the new arch in mind there will be significant performance hits.

Have no way? BS. Clang is cross-platform for Linux and Windows and is free to install. In fact there's a very easy guide for integrating it into Visual Studio.

 

Can't be bothered to spend 10 minutes?

 

Not really any performance hit above just lower performance of the architecture in general. Compilers are pretty good at optimising cross-arch once your data is laid out nicely for any of them (data-oriented design).

[leadeater]

59 minutes ago, DoctorWho1975 said:

Oh boy... Linus getting upset.. not our Linus, THE Linus.

 

https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg2688875.html

 

lol savage as

 

Quote

I think somebody inside of Intel needs to really take a long hard look
at their CPU's, and actually admit that they have issues instead of
writing PR blurbs that say that everything works as designed.

.. and that really means that all these mitigation patches should be
written with "not all CPU's are crap" in mind.

Or is Intel basically saying "we are committed to selling you shit
forever and ever, and never fixing anything"?

 

[luigi90210]

idk how credible this source is but it shows some benchmarks on intel pre and post patch

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-415-x86pti&num=2

[ItsMitch]

Just now, luigi90210 said:

idk how credible this source is but it shows some benchmarks on intel pre and post patch

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-415-x86pti&num=2

thats already been posted, would be nice for some windows results tho

[sazrocks]

Source is unreliable so I'm not posting it but apparently it is possible that gaming with Nvidia GPUs might be much more affected than the AMD GPUs that the current testing was done with. Apparently this is because of the Nvidia drivers utilizing syscalls much more often than AMD drivers, leading to degraded performance, (unreliably) reported to be as high as 30%. EDIT: actually that is (once again, unreliably) reported to be 30-61%. 

 

If this is true, crap.

 

EDIT 2: Possibly false, AC:O Benchmarks from ComputerBase show up to a 3% loss. This is only one game though so there still may be an issue.

Link: https://www.computerbase.de/2018-01/intel-cpu-pti-sicherheitsluecke/

[DoctorWho1975]

1 minute ago, sazrocks said:

Source is unreliable so I'm not posting it but apparently it is possible that gaming with Nvidia GPUs might be much more affected than the AMD GPUs that the current testing was done with. Apparently this is because of the Nvidia drivers utilizing syscalls much more often than AMD drivers, leading to degraded performance, (unreliably) reported to be as high as 30%. 

 

If this is true, crap.

I've seen the same thing... and that would be JUST Intel + Nvidia.. AMD+Nvidia is fine. Be real interesting if its true. Really sucks for RTG if it is true because they have no way to capitalize. 

[cj09beira]

1 minute ago, DoctorWho1975 said:

I've seen the same thing... and that would be JUST Intel + Nvidia.. AMD+Nvidia is fine. Be real interesting if its true. Really sucks for RTG if it is true because they have no way to capitalize. 

if you already have an intel cpu, might as well get the amd gpu, so there is capitalization to be made 

[ItsMitch]

6 minutes ago, sazrocks said:

Source is unreliable so I'm not posting it but apparently it is possible that gaming with Nvidia GPUs might be much more affected than the AMD GPUs that the current testing was done with. Apparently this is because of the Nvidia drivers utilizing syscalls much more often than AMD drivers, leading to degraded performance, (unreliably) reported to be as high as 30%. 

 

Mind posting anyway? Wouldn't mind a quick read before I go bed.

[Trik'Stari]

On 1/2/2018 at 5:38 PM, SC2Mitch said:

Might just switch to Ryzen at this fucking rate

Kinda been considering it myself.

[Techicolors]

sorry if this has been posted already (17 pages, wowzers), but apparently MacOS addressed this in 10.13.2 update, which was released December 6. 

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/01/03/intel-design-flaw-fixed-macos-10-13-2/

[sazrocks]

1 minute ago, SC2Mitch said:

Mind posting anyway? Wouldn't mind a quick read before I go bed.

Literally 4Chan: http://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/64125824#p64127406

Hence why I marked it as unreliable.

But I found that post through some slightly more reliable persons.

[sazrocks]

4 minutes ago, Technicolors said:

sorry if this has been posted already (17 pages, wowzers), but apparently MacOS addressed this in 10.13.2 update, which was released December 6. 

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/01/03/intel-design-flaw-fixed-macos-10-13-2/

Well that's good. Makes one wonder why Microsoft is so much slower though.

[ItsMitch]

More PoC's have been released, targetting FireFox browsers and it's passwords. Pretty interesting really.

And Mozilla fired up a response in a blog on their site

https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2018/01/03/mitigations-landing-new-class-timing-attack/

 

[leadeater]

55 minutes ago, sazrocks said:

Literally 4Chan: http://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/64125824#p64127406

Hence why I marked it as unreliable.

But I found that post through some slightly more reliable persons.

It's false, I have seen the article this picture shows but I forget where. Anyway hardly any impact for Nvidia

 

[ItsMitch]

Just now, leadeater said:

It's false, I have seen the article this picture shows but I forget where. Anyway hardly any impact for Nvidia

 

your link more dead than errrrrrrrrrrrrrr intels stocks????? i dunno

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, SC2Mitch said:

your link more dead than errrrrrrrrrrrrrr intels stocks????? i dunno

lol I dunno, works for me. Anyway found the source again. Edit: Pic was in your reddit link btw.

 

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-01/intel-cpu-pti-sicherheitsluecke/

[sazrocks]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

lol I dunno, works for me. Anyway found the source again. Edit: Pic was in your reddit link btw.

 

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-01/intel-cpu-pti-sicherheitsluecke/

Only one game... I'd like to see more testing before we say that it isn't an issue. Still, I'll add that link to my post above.

 

Also I have no idea what reddit post you are taking about.

[Droidbot]

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-Tip-Git-Disable-x86-PTI

 

 

yay for LINUS FIXING SHIT

[Zodiark1593]

As I read through the paper for the Spectre vulnerability, this particular sentiment has me quite concerned.

 

"More broadly, there are trade-offs between security
and performance. The vulnerabilities in this paper, as
well as many others, arise from a longstanding focus in
the technology industry on maximizing performance. As
a result, processors, compilers, device drivers, operating
systems, and numerous other critical components have
evolved compounding layers of complex optimizations
that introduce security risks. As the costs of insecurity
rise, these design choices need to be revisited, and in
many cases alternate implementations optimized for se-
curity will be required."

 

Thoughts on this?

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, sazrocks said:

Also I have no idea what reddit post you are taking about.

reddit, 4chan all the same turd mine to me . Kinda busy so wasn't really paying much attention.

[Zodiark1593]

7 minutes ago, Arokhantos said:

 

Just do it by generation and put a special small list for cpu's not effected.

Anything ARM11 (original Raspberry Pi) should be (theoretically) safe from all of the above exploits owing to being both in-order, and having a single pipeline. Not a lot of opportunity for things to go wrong within the core in the manner being highlighted. ARM's Cortex A7 and A53 are both dual-issue, in order architectures, so no idea about either.

[Carlos Andrade]

Welp, time to desolder my 7700HQ

[johnukguy]

For those of you  still wondering  about AMD, AMD have apparently already produced a patch that 'fixes' the issue for their CPUs and has no performance hit:

"AMD said its chips were affected by some but not all of a series of related security exploits uncovered by researchers. AMD has already developed a simple software fix for its chips that will not impact PC performance, an AMD spokesman said. “Due to differences in AMD’s architecture, we believe there is a near zero risk to AMD processors at this time,” the company said in a statement. “We expect the security research to be published later today and will provide further updates at that time."

http://fortune.com/2018/01/03/intel-kernel-security-flaw-amd/

 

Google Project Zero (GPZ) Research Title	Details
Variant One	Bounds Check Bypass	Resolved by software / OS updates to be made available by system vendors and manufacturers. Negligible performance impact expected.
Variant Two	Branch Target Injection	Differences in AMD architecture mean there is a near zero risk of exploitation of this variant. Vulnerability to Variant 2 has not been demonstrated on AMD processors to date.
Variant Three	Rogue Data Cache Load	Zero AMD vulnerability due to AMD architecture differences.

 

[straight_stewie]

On 1/2/2018 at 6:58 PM, Gibbons said:

The Intel CEO  Brian Krzanich sold as much Intel stock as their corporate rules allowed a few weeks ago.

Late reply to a popular thread, but he could quickly get in trouble for insider trading on that deal. Apparently manufacturers knew about Spectre and Meltdown for months before it was released to public knowledge.