What is the point of consoles other than the Switch now?

[Ikarmue]

Lately, I have been dwelling on a subject that has been bothering me in regards to gaming and how much money I spent on it. With the emulators for the Wii U and the PS3 making the progress they have in such a short period of time, (so quick, that ATLUS is making a big deal out of the potential RPCS3 has to hurt the game's sales) as well as certain games coming to non-exclusive platforms (Killer Instinct 3) I have to ask: what is the point of the media center console anymore other than to function as a glorified DVD player that happens to have some exclusive games? About the only thing that you can lay claim to is convenience and not having to worry about controllers locking up Steam after closing a game (why does Steam do that?) or having to worry about whether your system is strong enough to play certain games, and it being relatively easier to bring to a friends house.

 

You can say exclusives for systems that haven't been emulated yet like the PS4 and the Switch, but let's be honest: outside of some games that I'd be reaching to reference that are not titled Bloodborne, Uncharted 4, Horizon Zero Dawn, or the Last of Us Part II, I don't see much else that is an actual exclusive to the system. So that we're clear on definitions here: exclusive means it has no official port to any other system, PC included. Here's all of the other PS4 "exclusives" that have a version for either the previous gen systems or PC: Persona 5, Yakuza 0, Yakuza Kiwami, (those two's PS3 versions didn't come out over here, but it still isn't an actual exclusive in my book) Beyond: Two Souls, Gravity Rush, Journey, the Danganronpa games, Heavy Rain, Final Fantasy XV, any of the deluge of ports (*cough* ahem, I mean, remasters) and almost all of the indie games guaranteed to be on PC or other systems in some form or another. Of all of the specific examples listed here, that only leaves 4 actual exclusives for the PS4, with the last one not even being out yet, and around 10 games for the crossplatform/crossgenerational releases. Yeah, some of the crossplats/crossgens or categories of games I mentioned here may have bad PC ports, if they have one at all, but that's not the point: even if a PC port is bad, someone will eventually develop an emulator that, as long as the developers keep revising and updating said emulator, the games will be playable forever in one form or another.

 

Not to mention, how many of these games are a part of one of those "played one game, played them all" franchises? For example, I beat the original version of Yakuza 2 for the PS2. I decided that, since I heard that the other games (that aren't remakes of older games or spinoffs) had recaps so I could follow the plot without having to play the other games, and that it's a yearly series in Japan, I decided to jump into the latest game that was available to me at the time: the 5th game, in 2017, a game from 5 years ago whose localization didn't make it over here until after three years of it's original release date in 2012. (WARNING: this one does not recap the previous games) The fighting is better, but still mostly the same (though there is more than just one playable character) there is pop-in everywhere, and the frame rate struggles to maintain 30fps. Same goes for Persona 5, though from what I've seen, that one looks like a massive improvement over the repetitive borefest that was the PS2 Persona games, IMHO. (I liked the story, characters, and music, but the "dungeon" in Persona 3 wore its welcome out quickly when nothing was happening in the game, and social link stuff was for NG+ for all practical intents and purposes, and Persona 4 was better, but still somewhat repetitive, and the cutscenes tended to drag)

 

Now, with Yakuza 0 and the remake of 1 on PS4, since those games were originally made for PS3, they run much better at a smooth 60fps on the Slim...something that could be achieved if you play through the games when RPCS3 inevitably is able to emulate the PS3 better with all of the bells and whistles that Dolphin and PCSX2 have and know how to use cheats or patches to have the games run at a frame rate they weren't originally set to run at and if you have the hardware to do so.

 

That sounds like a lot more work than just buying the system and playing it on there, but let's think about it: how much money do you save by not buying a game console? Maybe it's just because I'm about to make a big financial commitment (car or college), but these thoughts have had me looking at how much dust my consoles have collected lately and going "yeah, I'm selling this soon." Yeah, you have to buy a lot of equipment to rip the images of the games off their original cartridges, discs, or whatever storage medium, but once they're on your hard drive, and if you're good at backing things up, you ain't losing those files any time soon. That, combined with the big backlog of games I have, makes the question of "Why should I buy this console for a handful of games when I have 50+ games on Steam I could be playing instead," even if some of those games I bought in collections aren't games I have any desire to play anytime soon. (i.e. I bought the first three Far Cry games plus Blood Dragon even though I have no desire to play the first one and especially the second one if the glitches I've heard about that game are true)

 

Now, with the Switch, even though I think it's a marvelous idea with a flawed execution, (32GB of storage, the cartridge tax, the various hardware issues regarding the joy-cons, the Switch online app, and the dubious future for ports of third party games that aren't indie games just to list a few) as long as Nintendo doesn't try to innovate for innovation's sake, they may have a concept that I have been wanting for a long time: portable gaming on the go that's very comparable to playing games on set top consoles. We haven't seen anything like that I can remember other than maybe the Sega Nomad from way back then, even if the Energizer bunny had a hand in the portable marvel's (for the time) development. The only thing that could trip them up would be if the GPD can make a better version of the GPD Win that has actual, clickable joysticks and at the very least a GPU worth mentioning would be good enough to be capable of playing even most of the 7th gen if not all of it. I know that sounds ambitious, but some people like yours truly don't just sit at home anymore, and the idea of a console you can easily bring with you and can easily play games with one other person with is so cool to me, and I am always tempted to get the Switch, but decide to wait until I have sold my other non-PC systems first. Not to mention, I can take the Switch anywhere with me to play the game if I'm waiting at the doctor's office or something.

 

After that comprehensive wall of text, I must ask: what is the point of the set top box console that is an "all-in-one" entertainment hub now that most of everything is digital when, if you want a Blu-ray or whatever form of storage media becomes popular in the future, you can just get a device that costs less than a used slim PS3?

 

 

 

tl;dr - with most of the games being available for PC these days, and considering how the PS4 and XBone are essentially the PS3.5 and the Xbox 360.5(?) using proprietary hardware based off of chips used in actual desktops and their game library, what is the point of consoles now that aren't portable?

[wyattzx]

You're going to start a flame war with a post like this, and I don't see the mods letting it slide.

 

That being said, and without trying to backseat mod, let me say this: I do not need to read your novel to know that your point goes off on a tangent due to misconstrued perceptions caused by your total support of the PC ecosystem. 

 

Consoles will dominate PC in terms of players for a great many more years -- if not forever -- and will not leave the household, if not at least without a massive fight. The convenience of buying a cardboard box from a store, taking it home and plugging in two cables (power and HDMI) and being off to the races will never be matched by a computer. You need to update your drivers, install software for your games, manage a handful of programs if you wish to play alongside friends, and separate the personal computing aspect from the gaming aspect of a gaming PC. That's something we'll never see happen. 

 

Even if physical media goes away, just look at mobile gaming. Two taps will take you from the store to the main menu of a game. On a PC, you need to download it, install it, run it and possibly (probably) configure it. Consoles aren't far off from mobile gaming; you simply download it and or its updates and hit a single button to drop at the main menu. Yes, once the games are installed on each platform, subsequent experiences should be near-identical, but this first impression is very important.

 

Furthermore, you do not need to worry about your hardware being capable of playing a desired title, as on console it will always work if released for that platform. Perhaps your GPU isn't fast enough? Perhaps your CPU is only dual core and won't run the game? Maybe your drivers are causing issues with a certain title?

 

To enthusiasts, PC is the way to go. To your average consumer, you cannot beat consoles.

[Mooshi]

The same thing can be said for custom PCs. Why bother going through setup, part selection, configuring ect when you can watch videos, browse the web and game on a cell phone?

 

It's a market catered to specific people. Simple as that.

[handymanshandle]

inb4 lock

also

wall of text is wall of text

tbf I'm guilty of doing that before too lol

 

[Ithanul]

On 9/28/2017 at 10:15 AM, Mooshi said:

The same thing can be said for custom PCs. Why bother going through setup, part selection, configuring ect when you can watch videos, browse the web and game on a cell phone?

 

It's a market catered to specific people. Simple as that.

Pretty much, plus just convenience.  A good chunk of consumers are lazy and don't want to full with setup time to just game or watch media.  These reasons are why consoles sell so well.  Buy it, hook it up, put game in, and off you go (unless you need to download a few updates).

 

Heck, I get bugged over the fact I have consoles, and people asking why do I have them because of my monster main rig.  Simple reason, I like to get off work dealing with computers and just want to sit my butt on the couch, get a mix drink, and play or watch a movie.  Also, I give it to console makers now.  My Mom is not computer savvy, but she can use a Playstation with ease as her media box and she loves consoles for that ability.

[Mira Yurizaki]

This post: "I gave up on consoles and I don't understand why other people can't see the light and give up on them too."

 

You pretty much listed the reason why anyone wants a console: convenience.

 

Here's an example of that convenience. A few months ago I decided to stream on Twitch from my PS4. Since I hadn't set it up before, all I did was log into my account, set a few options, and away I went. I was amazed at how easy it was to set this up. Whenever I wanted to stream from my computer, it was a slog to get OBS set up, grab a stream key from Twitch, do a test stream to make sure my view ports were setup right, then hope for the best. When I stream, I don't need anything elaborate, I just want the thing to stream what I'm playing. So the more I have to diddle around to get something simple up, the more of a pain it is to use it.

[Kyle_N]

You can buy an Xbox One with 1-2 free games included for under $300. And as others have mentioned, it works out of the box, everything included. 

 

A graphics card that provides the same stability and consistent performance (real world usage, not numbers) as a console, costs more than the entire console. Plus you need CPU, RAM, MB, PSU, cables, storage, keyboard, mouse or controller. Even a pre-built system is gonna be at least $200 more than that Xbox, and won't come with games.

At the high-end, I don't think there is any system that can reliably do 4K gaming for under $1500 (3x the cost of One X), or in such a small box.

 

Plus, if you consider that you can run a lot of Windows apps natively, and the Office web apps (also rumours are that Office and other apps will run natively soon), you can even port your own desktop apps/games if you download the tools, and the question you should really be asking if why anyone would buy a desktop PC (at least one that's under $500-$700).

If you're looking for the least expensive option that can play games, browse the web, and use MS Office, a console is the cheapest option. PCs certainly provide more value to some people, but they can't touch the price-performance ratio of consoles, and certainly not the convenience. 

[Ikarmue]

Hey, don't misunderstand. I'm not bashing consoles or anything. I used to be a console owner myself. It's just that, with how quickly the emulators for the previous gen systems are coming along, (people have beaten Persona 5, a game released in 2017, on RPCS3!) I just am posing an honest question as a PC user on a, let's face it, mainly tech forum. I'm looking for a discussion here, not a typical "consoles are better than PCs or PCs are better than consoles because reasons that have been listed all over the Internet" topic that's been done on every gaming forum ever.

 

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You can buy an Xbox One with 1-2 free games included for under $300. And as others have mentioned, it works out of the box, everything included. 

 

A graphics card that provides the same stability and consistent performance (real world usage, not numbers) as a console, costs more than the entire console. Plus you need CPU, RAM, MB, PSU, cables, storage, keyboard, mouse or controller. Even a pre-built system is gonna be at least $200 more than that Xbox, and won't come with games.

At the high-end, I don't think there is any system that can reliably do 4K gaming for under $1500 (3x the cost of One X), or in such a small box.

What you describe is a barrier of entry to PC gaming. I experienced it myself when I was saving everything I could to build myself a PC 2 years ago. I decided to save as much money as I could, and had to sell some of the more recent systems in my collection, (that I have since gained back now that I have a job, I didn't have a job then) and all I could afford was a Pentium G3258, GTX 750 Ti, a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO, and some RAM. There were other items, obviously, but I remember asking for a HDD and PSU for my birthday and Christmas that year. Thanks to having a lot of patience, (I was in college at the time, and didn't have as much time to play games as I used to) I was able to put together a PC. Then, I did some incremental upgrades here and there before getting a job (upgraded to an i5 and got a much better case), and making upgrades has only become easier ever since.

 

Yeah, they cost a lot at first, but when it comes to games, once you start buying games on Steam and GOG, you can reinstall them on as many machines as possible as long as it doesn't have some DRM like "you can only install this game 5 times or have it on 5 different devices because we don't want to lose money to pirates." Just because you buy a PC doesn't mean you have to buy a whole new library of games. I had bought a lot of games and/or collections of games on Steam that I had no way of running on my craptop at the time because I knew I'd be able to play them in the future when I did get a PC that could play them. Because of those investments, I felt getting a gaming PC was worth the asking price.

 

Of course there's going to be hardware problems, but every object, no matter how common or rare, will naturally break down or end up not working for whatever reason. One of my older brothers had to send in his 360 several times because of the Red Ring of Death. I had to replace the RAM I initially bought with the PC with better RAM that hasn't given me any problems I am aware of since. The Switch, a system with a concept that I absolutely adore, has had various hardware issues that makes Nintendo's stance on NOT backing up save games a disastrous idea. Yeah, it's to "prevent homebrew" a problem that was only because of them using old PowerPC architecture. Steam, as much as I like that they finally introduced refunds, 2 hours is a little stringent with games that tend to have a ridiculously long intro before your character gets to free roam and see what the game is actually like sometimes.

 

There's some examples for both consoles and PCs of problems that affect either the hardware or software end of the experience. Yeah, PCs have a lot of problems, but if you plan it out right, it can be just about as convenient as a console.

 

Also, 4K (3840x2160) is just a buzz term. Truth is, it's only twice the resolution of 1920x1080. Besides, the "4K" offered on the One X is probably only going to be for indies or "upscaled from 1080p 4K." Actual, uncompromised 4K at 60fps for consoles is a long ways away. I know that I am perfectly fine with 1080p since, for most of my childhood, I was stuck with 480i TVs and whatever my older brother let me use as a PC monitor.

 

That being said, it is easier to set up a console by a long shot. It's just that, as someone who is saving up to go to university so he can get his bachelor's, I just see a PC as a more useful investment if you just want to have one machine to play just about everything that's not on PS4, which, let's face it, will get emulated at some point down the road. The Switch, IMO, may be the most convenient console I've seen in years, essentially coming with two controllers that can be used in different orientations and that functions like a Wiimote from what I understand. Yeah, it's still gimmicky, but it's a gimmick that the set top console simply can't duplicate. I just hope future devices like it (if Nintendo can keep the momentum going for the system) learn from the Switch and strive to be better.

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 hour ago, Ikarmue said:

Hey, don't misunderstand. I'm not bashing consoles or anything. I used to be a console owner myself. It's just that, with how quickly the emulators for the previous gen systems are coming along, (people have beaten Persona 5, a game released in 2017, on RPCS3!)

Modern emulators are essentially built with hacks upon hacks, with the contributors focusing on what's popular and trying to get those games to work, rather than try to find a generic solution to solving the problem. And even when they do find something generic, there will be a handful of games that will not work because they used clever programming to get around limitations. There are some SNES games that are unwinnable unless you play them on Higan because of these quirks. Persona 5 doesn't appear to be a complicated game, so that makes it easier to emulate. But in any case, the compatibility of "playable" for RPCS3 is still sitting at ~15%, and many of those playable games appear to be basic games or games that aren't very complex looking. But I'd also like to point out the PS3 is over 10 years old now. I haven't looked at when PSCX2 got 90%+ playable, but it took a long time for it to get there. Considering how complicated the PS3 is hardware wise, I can't expect 90%+ compatibility for at least another 5 years if not more. RPCS3 is where PCSX2 was at around 8-10 years ago.

 

Not to mention you still have to find a way to obtain the games. So unless you have a Blu-Ray drive (and I'm not even sure if standard Blu-Ray drives can read PS3 discs), you're looking at pirating those games.

 

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Yeah, they cost a lot at first, but when it comes to games, once you start buying games on Steam and GOG, you can reinstall them on as many machines as possible as long as it doesn't have some DRM like "you can only install this game 5 times or have it on 5 different devices because we don't want to lose money to pirates." Just because you buy a PC doesn't mean you have to buy a whole new library of games. I had bought a lot of games and/or collections of games on Steam that I had no way of running on my craptop at the time because I knew I'd be able to play them in the future when I did get a PC that could play them. Because of those investments, I felt getting a gaming PC was worth the asking price.

And as nice as that sounds, at some point, you're going to look at your library and go "why am I wasting all this money?" Sure it was great to buy the entire Doom series back in 2008, but I haven't touched a single game in that collection since then. But I guess if you find value in having a huge game collection because some day you might just play that game, then I won't stop you. But to me, I don't see a point any more. I'm already struggling with the fact I've been playing FFXIV practically every day for the past five months and I've only touched one or two other games to completion.

 

So to me, "buying games as an investment to the platform" is silly. If you don't touch a game you bought, you basically wasted your money.

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There's some examples for both consoles and PCs of problems that affect either the hardware or software end of the experience. Yeah, PCs have a lot of problems, but if you plan it out right, it can be just about as convenient as a console.

But consoles require little of said planning, and it takes a while to even get remotely close to that convenience on a PC. Especially when certain things are out of your control. For example, I like that on the PS4, it will download game updates on the side and ask me if I want to update the game when I launch it or just go ahead without patching it. With Steam, it will force update my games and I can't play them until they're done updating. Nothing I can do on Steam will let me change this.  (EDIT: I forgot you can opt-out of updates, but this appears to be on a per-game basis and even then, why do I have to completely opt out? In fact, just change it so I can play the game while the update is downloading and install it when I'm done with the game)

 

And here's one other convenience that consoles have over PCs: Suspending. Meaning when I'm done, I don't have to quit the game outright. I just put the console in sleep mode and go on and do something else. When I want to play again, I boot the system back up and it drops me off right where I left off. No more finding save points in RPGs or waiting for checkpoints in action games. But I suppose that comes with the territory of having a dedicated gaming machine, because you can't do this in a one-size-fits-all solution like a PC.

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Also, 4K (3840x2160) is just a buzz term. Truth is, it's only twice the resolution of 1920x1080. Besides, the "4K" offered on the One X is probably only going to be for indies or "upscaled from 1080p 4K." Actual, uncompromised 4K at 60fps for consoles is a long ways away. I know that I am perfectly fine with 1080p since, for most of my childhood, I was stuck with 480i TVs and whatever my older brother let me use as a PC monitor.

4K is four times the resolution of 1080p. 3840*2160 = 8294400, 1920*1080 = 2073600. 8294400 / 2073600 = 4

 

And both consoles are capable of actual 4K on certain games. And the Xbox One X can run Forza whatever it was at 4K 60FPS:

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That being said, it is easier to set up a console by a long shot. It's just that, as someone who is saving up to go to university so he can get his bachelor's, I just see a PC as a more useful investment if you just want to have one machine to play just about everything that's not on PS4, which, let's face it, will get emulated at some point down the road. The Switch, IMO, may be the most convenient console I've seen in years, essentially coming with two controllers that can be used in different orientations and that functions like a Wiimote from what I understand. Yeah, it's still gimmicky, but it's a gimmick that the set top console simply can't duplicate. I just hope future devices like it (if Nintendo can keep the momentum going for the system) learn from the Switch and strive to be better.

The Switch's appeal is that Nintendo merged their portable and home console systems into it (even though Nintendo denies the 3DS isn't dead). So rather than pay twice to play games from the same company, you pay once.

 

Sony backed out of the portable gaming market (for stupid reasons, but they did). So there's no reason for them to attempt something like the Switch. Especially when they're seen as a technology leader in the console market. Mobile technology isn't quite there yet to match what you can get when you have unlimited power from the wall.

 

Microsoft doesn't care about the portable gaming market either. So they're not going to even attempt it.

 

But I won't argue if you're strapped for cash, then a PC is better if you're going to school and playing games. A PS4 can't type up word documents.

[Ithanul]

2 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

And as nice as that sounds, at some point, you're going to look at your library and go "why am I wasting all this money?" Sure it was great to buy the entire Doom series back in 2008, but I haven't touched a single game in that collection since then. But I guess if you find value in having a huge game collection because some day you might just play that game, then I won't stop you. But to me, I don't see a point any more. I'm already struggling with the fact I've been playing FFXIV practically every day for the past five months and I've only touched one or two other games to completion.

Same, I have a good size game collection on Steam, but barely touch most of them.  Since then, I don't buy unless I plan to play the game after buying.

Also, a PC is not safe from games becoming unplayable down the road.  Depending on OS changes and updates, games can no longer play or bugs/glitches may appear because the new OS handles applications a bit differently from past OSes.

[TacoSenpai]

I kinda agree in alot of ways.  The only thing that draws me to consoles are true exclusives.  None of this timed BS.  I'm talking in-house built the ground up for the system like Uncharted, Crash, Nioh on PS4 or all the Ninty franchises that you wont get anywhere else.