Intel 18c HEDT Die Pictured, Not Soldered (7980XE)

[iamdarkyoshi]

8 hours ago, Senzelian said:

So whats the actual temperature difference between a soldered and a nonsoldered CPU?

 

1°C?

2°C?

5°C?

 

Does it even matter or are you all just pissed for the sake of beeing pissed? 

In the case of my 6700k... About 30C after applying metal thermal paste.

[mynameisjuan]

9 minutes ago, Arokhantos said:

i don't think i ever buy a cpu that needs deliding

No CPU needs deliding. 

[OriAr]

4 hours ago, Simon771 said:

I'm only interested in what will they do with upcomming main-stream 6c/12t CPU.

i7 7700k 4c/8t CPU was having so many thermal problems, that Intel said not to OC those CPUs.

 

If they will do the same with 6c/12t CPU, we can already expect even worse thermal problems as with 7700k.

 

I would gladly buy 6c CPU from Intel, as long as they take care of thermal problems. I don't care what's inside the CPU ... I just don't want it to run on 85°C stock settings on cutom water loop (my i7 4790k experience).

For the god knows how many time, the problems with KBL were due the gap between the die and IHS, which was fixed in SKL-X.

It might not as good as soldered, but it should easily be capable of remaining cool even under a decent OC.

[pas008]

1 hour ago, Arokhantos said:

I hate this whole deliding meta, its why i went for 5820k and that one has crappy solder on it, cos appearntly deliding a 5820k can drop temps by like 7c, while deliding amd cpu only gives about 3c improvement, i don't think i ever buy a cpu that needs deliding, with the prices you pay for cpu's now you should be able to expect quality not garbage delidable cpu's.

what are you talking about now?

intels price pretty much have been the same without damn inflation

they are just making more higher end products on hedt

[MageTank]

5 hours ago, done12many2 said:

Could Intel have realized that this was happening particularly with HCC chips using solder and intentionally switched to TIM? 

I was just about to say that all of my data comes from consumer chips (Sandy being soldered, vs Haswell not being soldered, vs Devil's Canyon TIM update) but you just brought up a really good point. On Sandy Bridge, the max per-core variance most people saw, was roughly 5C between the hottest and coldest core. On original Haswell, it could be as high as 14C. On Devil's Canyon, this was brought back down to around 8-9C on average. I have not paid that much attention to the HEDT platforms use of solder (mostly because I assumed they were always soldered, so I had assumed they all performed the same) but I can say for absolute certain that solder is superior on the smaller chips for per-core variance.

 

What is interesting the most with the screenshots you provided, is that it only seems to be an issue once overclocking is involved. Is it possible for specific cores to act differently to higher voltage than others? Like some sort of core-based thermal runaway situation? Der8auer is using 1344k (vcore FFT) so it does lend some merit to that thought if they are indeed reacting differently to the voltage, though it should be said that 1344k will not load each core equally. For more equal thermals, you would need to use smaller FFT's. If you still have your 5960X, would you be willing to run a few tests for me? I think I may know of a way to pinpoint this.

 

Another thing to note, is when der8auer soldered his 6700k, the max per-core variance (under 1344k again) was 9C between his hottest and coldest core, but 2C on average. It's normal for the primary thread to run hotter on Prime95, so the 2C average difference between the rest of the threads is still quite an improvement. Skylake, like Sandy and Ivy, also lacks FIVR. Could FIVR also be part of the reason, since the enthusiast CPU's all have FIVR on them? 

[Senzelian]

2 hours ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

In the case of my 6700k... About 30C after applying metal thermal paste.

I hope its running on 5Ghz or higher.
My 6700K gets to 4.9 stable without delidding ;o

[iamdarkyoshi]

5 hours ago, Senzelian said:

I hope its running on 5Ghz or higher.
My 6700K gets to 4.9 stable without delidding ;o

Its running at 4.7ghz with a 5cm tall cooler. I'm using a node 202.

[MageTank]

5 hours ago, Senzelian said:

I hope its running on 5Ghz or higher.
My 6700K gets to 4.9 stable without delidding ;o

Now that is something I'd pay to see. 

[Drak3]

39 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Now that is something I'd pay to see. 

I'd only pay if it were fully stable.

[done12many2]

56 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Now that is something I'd pay to see. 

 

You and me both.

[MageTank]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

You and me both.

Wanna go halvsies on it? I pay half, you pay half? 

[done12many2]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

Wanna go halvsies on it? I pay half, you pay half? 

 

I'm in.

[porina]

58 minutes ago, Arokhantos said:

Dude most intel cpu's overheat without deliding on water.

You missed a bit there. Overheating is only a real problem if you're heavily overclocking, and then it isn't limited to Intel, soldered or not.

[DXMember]

On ‎2017‎.‎09‎.‎05‎. at 11:22 PM, Stefan1024 said:

It has 2 PCBs, that's interesting. Did the older generations had this too?

one's for Socket LGA1151 and the other for socket LGA2066, that's how they make KabyLake-X

[Senzelian]

15 hours ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

Its running at 4.7ghz with a 5cm tall cooler. I'm using a node 202.

Had mine running at 4.9 with a Freezer i32 and two Silent Wings 2.
Those small tower coolers are pretty good.

[Senzelian]

15 hours ago, MageTank said:

Now that is something I'd pay to see. 

Sure, you're welcome.

I could overclock it again, now that I am running it on water and not air anymore. Maybe I can get even higher, but probably not ._.''

 

(Sorry, double post)

[Drak3]

6 hours ago, Arokhantos said:

 

Dude most intel cpu's overheat without deliding on water.

Only the 7700K, and only overheating as per user expectations, not technical spec that the CPU can actually handle.

 

2 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

Had mine running at 4.9 with a Freezer i32 and two Silent Wings 2.
Those small tower coolers are pretty good.

Did you use an AVX offset?

[Senzelian]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

Did you use an AVX offset?

Nope. Didn't even know what that is back at that time, so I didn't bother with it.

[Lathlaer]

As expected, people who will never buy this chip and never intended to have a perfect excuse not to do it lol

 

If someone is buying a $2000 CPU I kinda expect that they know what they are doing and they will either leave it be if they just need something with many cores (so no overclock) or know how to cool it properly if they are really worthy of the term enthusiast.

[MageTank]

1 hour ago, Senzelian said:

Sure, you're welcome.

I could overclock it again, now that I am running it on water and not air anymore. Maybe I can get even higher, but probably not ._.''

 

(Sorry, double post)

Sorry, but you did not run 4.9ghz on air, on a non-delidded 6700k. Physics doesn't work that way, lol. Delidded and under water, 4.7ghz still got pretty warm on my 6700k. @done12many2 has binned plenty of CPU's, including 6700k's, and I doubt he was able to do 4.9 on air, with or without a delid. @Lays was only able to do 5ghz after delidding and using a custom loop with a golden binned chip. 

 

16 hours ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

Its running at 4.7ghz with a 5cm tall cooler. I'm using a node 202.

I had a node 202 as well, using a 45mm vapor chamber on my delidded 6700k. 4.5ghz got very hot in that chassis, even under gaming loads. Granted, "very hot" in my opinion is 80C, others don't mind going higher. Was your 6700k delidded? 

 

Not gonna lie, kinda miss the little guy. 

[Drak3]

54 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

Nope. Didn't even know what that is back at that time, so I didn't bother with it.

AVX is an instruction set that is extremely efficient at using your CPU, and AVX is also the hottest.

It's not used much for consumer workloads, but things like media encoding and number crunching, prosumer and enterprise workloads, make good use of AVX.

[Senzelian]

27 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Sorry, but you did not run 4.9ghz on air, on a non-delidded 6700k. Physics doesn't work that way, lol. Delidded and under water, 4.7ghz still got pretty warm on my 6700k. @done12many2 has binned plenty of CPU's, including 6700k's, and I doubt he was able to do 4.9 on air, with or without a delid. @Lays was only able to do 5ghz after delidding and using a custom loop with a golden binned chip. 

Alrighty! Thanks for opening my eyes.

 

 

Edit: What do you do if I proof you wrong? Maybe it's worth visiting my BIOS and playing around with it for a while.

18 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

AVX is an instruction set that is extremely efficient at using your CPU, and AVX is also the hottest.

It's not used much for consumer workloads, but things like media encoding and number crunching, prosumer and enterprise workloads, make good use of AVX.

Thanks for the info!

[iamdarkyoshi]

33 minutes ago, MageTank said:

-snip-

Yeah mine was delidded. Due to the lack of GPU vents, mine exhausts through the CPU cooler, which I've set to exhaust. Mine stays under 80 even with the heat of a 1080Ti venting through it

[MageTank]

12 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

Alrighty! Thanks for opening my eyes.

 

 

Edit: What do you do if I proof you wrong? Maybe it's worth visiting my BIOS and playing around with it for a while.

Thanks for the info!

Well, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and ignore the "on air" part entirely. If you can produce 4.9ghz under your custom loop without a delid, under an hour of any stress test of your choice, I'll believe you. 

 

I just know that with a Phanteks PH-TC14PE (one of the best air coolers one can get outside of the D15) it still performed worse than my 280mm AIO. So that little tiny air cooler you used, certainly wouldn't hold up to any load at 4.9ghz, even gaming without a delid. If you would like to see the difference delidding makes, I have a thread showcasing that: 

 

Long story short, 22C difference on an undervolted stock clocked 6700k. To suggest you can get 4.9ghz without having that serious thermal advantage on a weak air cooler, I just don't see it happening. Not unless you validate stability with minesweeper, lol. 

[Senzelian]

35 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Well, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and ignore the "on air" part entirely. If you can produce 4.9ghz under your custom loop without a delid, under an hour of any stress test of your choice, I'll believe you. 

 

I just know that with a Phanteks PH-TC14PE (one of the best air coolers one can get outside of the D15) it still performed worse than my 280mm AIO. So that little tiny air cooler you used, certainly wouldn't hold up to any load at 4.9ghz, even gaming without a delid. If you would like to see the difference delidding makes, I have a thread showcasing that: 

 

Long story short, 22C difference on an undervolted stock clocked 6700k. To suggest you can get 4.9ghz without having that serious thermal advantage on a weak air cooler, I just don't see it happening. Not unless you validate stability with minesweeper, lol. 

Don't worry, I validate with Tetris.

 

So, I should spend time to overclock my CPU and in turn you would believe me?
Doesn't seem like a good trade and doesn't convince me.