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US tech firms pledge to defy Trump on withdrawal from the Climate Change Agreement

Master Disaster
By Master Disaster
in Tech News
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Posted
3 minutes ago, sazrocks said:

I believe this is one of the reasons there are so many skeptics. There is so much to be gained monetarily and politically from the regulation in the name of defeating climate change that there is the possibility of evidence being skewed/falsified in order to gain the above.

 

Another concept is the concept of research justification. If a research project turns up no issues about a particular thing, then no more funding goes toward that particular thing because it isn't necessary. If it does turn up problems however, then more money will be poured into the research. Therefore there is an incentive for research to justify itself by producing results. 

 

A relevant example here could be the NASA website. There are people who spend a good amount of time and are paid for maintaining it, researching for it, etc. If it were to come out that climate change isn't a thing and that everything is all fine and will be, those people would be out of a job/would be reassigned.

 

Please don't take this as me taking sides; on the contrary I am neutral until I have the ability/time to thoroughly evaluate the evidence. Don't take my points above as absoutes; in other words, I don't mean to say that the above things are definetly happening, but that they could be happening and that causes people to doubt the evidence produced by these agencies.

Having a problem with the political actions taken by some due to Climate change does not negates the data or it's validity. What to do about it is a subject that should absolutely be open to discussion but what Trump, his supporters and some people on this thread are doing is probably more damaging than misguided, ineffective or even corrupted policies: Denying there's even a problem to even worry about.

 

 

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Just now, rrubberr said:

If it's common sense that Earth has experienced MUCH more drastic changes in climate (more than your precious 0.6 degrees celsius) in the past, why is it insane to call climate change a joke?

 

I mean, you can point to glaciers and melting snow all you want, but if these masses of ice have been growing and shrinking since before human kind, why is this NOW proof for global warming?

 

The Manhattan Declaration really hit the nail on the head; you have nothing to show for all your bit***** and moaning, and your time would have been better spent researching your precious clean energy than getting triggered over things.

 

The irony was intended, friend, welcome.

The fear is that the way of life as it is, the earth as it is currently will change.  I'm assuming.  When if climate change, drastic and all encompassing in transformation - were actually happening, it'd be a good thing to force Human evolution, and force the biological evolution of the planet and species within it.  Our planet is far from stagnate, even though we have been for awhile.  Plus the 80% of the Human population dying would be a boon.

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1 minute ago, rrubberr said:

If it's common sense that Earth has experienced MUCH more drastic changes in climate (more than your precious 0.6 degrees celsius) in the past, why is it insane to call climate change a joke?

 

I mean, you can point to glaciers and melting snow all you want, but if these masses of ice have been growing and shrinking since before human kind, why is this NOW proof for global warming?

 

The Manhattan Declaration really hit the nail on the head; you have nothing to show for all your bit***** and moaning, and your time would have been better spent researching your precious clean energy than getting triggered over things.

 

The irony was intended, friend, welcome.

Common sense has nothing to do with Science. In fact the scientific method is designed to avoid confirmation and to consider un-intuitive propositions by removing any and all external factors and biases of what "sounds right" or it's "common sense".

 

Please read my above post: I am not above discussing disagreements about global warming policies and actions. But what you're doing is useless to the conversation.

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4 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

Cruel solution, but likely the only solution.  Africa all around if people wanted to truly help it - would cut off any and all aid, and let the long-suffering end.  Europe removed itself from the equation and when they did - the future of Africa was damned due to the lack of colonization.  Hell, the only still working infrastructure in Zimbabwe is from the 1960s when the English owned it.

 

It didn't help that some brilliant fools, after WW1, pretty much drew a bunch of lines and shoved 100s of separate racial groups into countries of artificial creation.  And there has been full scale slaughter, regularly, ever since.  And, because of all of the food aid, the next round of civil wars are probably going to see body counts in excess of 100 million over a few decades.

 

"You're not helping!" pretty much sums up nearly everything the Jet-Set types are trying to do in Africa. 

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4 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

The fear is that the way of life as it is, the earth as it is currently will change.  I'm assuming.  When if climate change, drastic and all encompassing in transformation - were actually happening, it'd be a good thing to force Human evolution, and force the biological evolution of the planet and species within it.  Our planet is far from stagnate, even though we have been for awhile.  Plus the 80% of the Human population dying would be a boon.

That's an easy proposition to put forward when you're fairly comfortable that you'll be among the 20% that survives.

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Just now, Taf the Ghost said:

It didn't help that some brilliant fools, after WW1, pretty much drew a bunch of lines and shoved 100s of separate racial groups into countries of artificial creation.  And there has been full scale slaughter, regularly, ever since.  And, because of all of the food aid, the next round of civil wars are probably going to see body counts in excess of 100 million over a few decades.

 

"You're not helping!" pretty much sums up nearly everything the Jet-Set types are trying to do in Africa. 

100s of millions will likely be low-balling it in terms of numbers.  Given Africa by 2050 is expected to be near 4 billion in population for their future boom.  

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Just now, Misanthrope said:

That's an easy proposition to put forward when you're fairly comfortable that you'll be among the 20% that survives.

99% of all species on this planet, to have ever lived - are extinct.  A population reduction would give abundance and richness, newfound growth to the newly developing societies that adapt to the conditions.  I have no ill feeling toward the other 80-90%.  If it's determined - then away they go.

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Leaving the agreement is a Good thing for the US and has absolutely nothing to do with Climate garbage.

 

FYI this thread is political. Just sayin.

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At this point it would be cheaper and faster to colonize mars and screw earth

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, SurvivorNVL said:

100s of millions will likely be low-balling it in terms of numbers.  Given Africa by 2050 is expected to be near 4 billion in population for their future boom.  

Speaking of questionable statistics, a really fun trip is actually trying to check the supposed numbers of people living on the continent. 

 

Also, I try not to talk about 300-500 million dead in Wars very regularly. It tends to run off most people.

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Just now, SurvivorNVL said:

99% of all species on this planet, to have ever lived - are extinct.  A population reduction would give abundance and richness, newfound growth to the newly developing societies that adapt to the conditions.  I have no ill feeling toward the other 80-90%.  If it's determined - then away they go.

Wait so you think that humans will be unaffected then? I get your point if you start from that line: Humans will be fine and all other species that might die well fuck em. (I do not agree but I get your point)

 

However while we already cannot sustain over 7 billion people on the planet the conditions becoming far worst for food production alone will inevitably lead to massive casualties for humans too.

 

If you consider than many, many, many humans would die to are you still ok with that proposition? It's ok if other people die because I am the fittest anyway?

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The Earth went through extreme climate changes far before suvs existed. The whole global warming sensationalism weirds me out.

 

That said, if we strip away the he said she said political nonsense and focus on what actually matters, not destroying the environment whenever possible and trying to ensure future generations have things like clean air and water isn't exactly a bad thing.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

At this point it would be cheaper and faster to colonize mars and screw earth

That shouldn't be off the table but realistically, it might not happen fast enough. Specially if we let the earth burn so to speak.

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Just now, Misanthrope said:

Wait so you think that humans will be unaffected then? I get your point if you start from that line: Humans will be fine and all other species that might die well fuck em. (I do not agree but I get your point)

 

However while we already cannot sustain over 7 billion people on the planet the conditions becoming far worst for food production alone will inevitably lead to massive casualties for humans too.

 

If you consider than many, many, many humans would die to are you still ok with that proposition? It's ok if other people die because I am the fittest anyway?

That was the assertion.  I'm okay with 80% of the Human race or more - dying.  Most wouldn't contribute much in the way of Humanity anyway.  Humans will be affected, and like the rest of the planet, many species, and environments - be forced to adapt, we'll just more easily adapt in resource rich countries as we can infra-structurally change our cities.  Humanity would do better with that fate, likely.

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Just now, BuckGup said:

At this point it would be cheaper and faster to colonize mars and screw earth

But, we'll, we'd need to terraform it.  Which means causing Climate Change. :)

 

Technically, back on the original discussion, even if we accepted all of the premises, it would still be simply an Engineering problem.  I'm still missing all of these Billions being dumped into Fusion research.  Or Thorium-Salt reactors (which should produce no long-term radioactive waste).  I'm also still waiting for the discussion that it's actually mostly the shipping of finished goods that produce the Net Greenhouse Gases for most smaller countries.

 

But if the Jet-Set Crowd is ready to ban Private Air Travel and switch to commercial or teleconferencing, I'll listen.

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Just now, Misanthrope said:

That shouldn't be off the table but realistically, it might not happen fast enough. Specially if we let the earth burn so to speak.

If they want to do that to Mars-  they have to begin nuking the planets poles to warm it up, and get changes going atmospherically asap.  Realistically - we'll probably begin expanding around our own planet before we begin colonizing Mars.

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Just now, SurvivorNVL said:

If they want to do that to Mars-  they have to begin nuking the planets poles to warm it up, and get changes going atmospherically asap.  Realistically - we'll probably begin expanding around our own planet before we begin colonizing Mars.

I don't look forward to the One Year War.

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16 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Having a problem with the political actions taken by some due to Climate change does not negates the data or it's validity. What to do about it is a subject that should absolutely be open to discussion but what Trump, his supporters and some people on this thread are doing is probably more damaging than misguided, ineffective or even corrupted policies: Denying there's even a problem to even worry about.

 

 

Still neutral but what!?

 

1. Where the heck did you get "Denying there's even a problem to worry about" from Trump? Did you listen/read his speech? He was quite interested in re-entering the Paris climate accord, but on better economic grounds. Heck, he even promised to improve the American environmental situation.

 

2. I'm a Trump supporter. Was he my first pick, no, but right now I'm a supporter. That does not make me a "climate denier." I'm tired of being put in a bag just because someone who was a Trump supporter did/said something. 

 

3. Data being politically motivated of course doesn't automatically make it false. Being so simply erodes it and makes it less credible.

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Renewables are futureproof, they don't rely on OPEC and are due to the investments recently are only a few years off cost parity with conventional power generation.

 

Also im more concerned with the health effects rather than the temperature rise, look at Beijing and how bad it was in London in the 1950s.

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1 minute ago, SurvivorNVL said:

That was the assertion.  I'm okay with 80% of the Human race or more - dying.  Most wouldn't contribute much in the way of Humanity anyway.  Humans will be affected, and like the rest of the planet, many species, and environments - be forced to adapt, we'll just more easily adapt in resource rich countries as we can infra-structurally change our cities.  Humanity would do better with that fate, likely.

"I'm ok with 80% of the human race or more - dying" 

 

Right on, nothing more to discuss then.

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1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

I don't know about the other guys, but didn't Elon Musk try to profit from the Paris deal crap?

The Paris Deal benefits him, because his companies are subsidized by the Federal Government.  Elon Musk has been kept afloat many, many times due to those subsidies.  Without them - he'd be back to square 1.

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6 minutes ago, sazrocks said:

Still neutral but what!?

 

1. Where the heck did you get "Denying there's even a problem to worry about" from Trump? Did you listen/read his speech? He was quite interested in re-entering the Paris climate accord, but on better economic grounds. Heck, he even promised to improve the American environmental situation.

 

2. I'm a Trump supporter. Was he my first pick, no, but right now I'm a supporter. That does not make me a "climate denier." I'm tired of being put in a bag just because someone who was a Trump supporter did/said something. 

 

3. Data being politically motivated of course doesn't automatically make it false. Being so simply erodes it and makes it less credible.

1. Right that's why he left and continues to support the position of Climate change being a Chinese hoax? That's why he appointed a climate denier to the EPA?

 

2. I never mentioned anybody specifically so moot point, don't jump the gun.

 

3. Data being politically motivated can be refuted. Some have tried to do just this but their findings were in turn refuted. You refute data you think might be compromised with a study on it, not with politics. The credibility of data comes from it's continued validity against scrutiny, scientific scrutiny not politically based opinions and assessments. 

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Just now, valdyrgramr said:

So, wouldn't pulling out screw his company?

Likely.  It'll be fun to watch, if so.

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Ignoring the massive mudflinging going on, Zuckerberg did make me chuckle.

 

"Every new data center we build will be powered by 100% renewable energy". Does this mean Intel finally found someone to buy those Atom processors? :P 

My (incomplete) memory overclocking guide: 

 

Does memory speed impact gaming performance? Click here to find out!

On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

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1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

1. Right that's why he leaved and continues to support the position of Climate change being a Chinese hoax? That's why he appointed a climate denier to the EPA?

 

2. I never mentioned anybody specifically so point moot, don't jump the gun.

 

3. Data being politically motivated can be refuted. Some have tried to do just did but their findings were in turn refuted. You refute data you think might be compromised with a study on it, not with politics. The credibility of data comes from it's continued validity against scrutiny, scientific scrutiny not politically based opinions and assessments. 

1. Please.... just go read the speech.

 

2. Yes, you did. You mentioned Trump supporters and said that they were "Denying there's even a problem to worry about"

 

3. Where did I mention that the studies had been refuted? I simply objectively stated a, without commenting on its legitimacy , reason for skeptics to exist. As I stated originally I am not in a position the refute or verify the studies for myself so I will therefore not do so publicly.

Current LTT F@H Rank: 90    Score: 2,503,680,659    Stats

Yes, I have 9 monitors.

My main PC (Hybrid Windows 10/Arch Linux):

OS: Arch Linux w/ XFCE DE (VFIO-Patched Kernel) as host OS, windows 10 as guest

CPU: Ryzen 9 3900X w/PBO on (6c 12t for host, 6c 12t for guest)

Cooler: Noctua NH-D15

Mobo: Asus X470-F Gaming

RAM: 32GB G-Skill Ripjaws V @ 3200MHz (12GB for host, 20GB for guest)

GPU: Guest: EVGA RTX 3070 FTW3 ULTRA Host: 2x Radeon HD 8470

PSU: EVGA G2 650W

SSDs: Guest: Samsung 850 evo 120 GB, Samsung 860 evo 1TB Host: Samsung 970 evo 500GB NVME

HDD: Guest: WD Caviar Blue 1 TB

Case: Fractal Design Define R5 Black w/ Tempered Glass Side Panel Upgrade

Other: White LED strip to illuminate the interior. Extra fractal intake fan for positive pressure.

 

unRAID server (Plex, Windows 10 VM, NAS, Duplicati, game servers):

OS: unRAID 6.11.2

CPU: Ryzen R7 2700x @ Stock

Cooler: Noctua NH-U9S

Mobo: Asus Prime X470-Pro

RAM: 16GB G-Skill Ripjaws V + 16GB Hyperx Fury Black @ stock

GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2

PSU: EVGA G3 850W

SSD: Samsung 970 evo NVME 250GB, Samsung 860 evo SATA 1TB 

HDDs: 4x HGST Dekstar NAS 4TB @ 7200RPM (3 data, 1 parity)

Case: Sillverstone GD08B

Other: Added 3x Noctua NF-F12 intake, 2x Noctua NF-A8 exhaust, Inatek 5 port USB 3.0 expansion card with usb 3.0 front panel header

Details: 12GB ram, GTX 1080, USB card passed through to windows 10 VM. VM's OS drive is the SATA SSD. Rest of resources are for Plex, Duplicati, Spaghettidetective, Nextcloud, and game servers.

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