Question: How would game developers create 8K games natively? If current technology isn't that good yet

[Joey Kapish]

I've been asking this question for a while and nobody seems to know anything.

 

Okay so the rumors are that the new Xbox Scorpio is gonna support 8K gaming natively and my question is how would game developers be able to develop 8K gaming if current technology is not that good yet? 

 

Even with 2 1080 TI's in SLI, high end games struggle with 4K gaming(average of 27-30 fps on MEDIUM settings) and that's pretty much the best configuration you can get right now. So I'm wondering how would game developers be able to create games at 8K natively if our current technology sucks and hasn't advanced much? 

 

SuperComputer? QuantumComputing(Using Atoms)? 

 

The reason why I ask is because if they(game developers) are using SuperComputers/Servers/QuatumComputers to build they games, then I would like to build myself a SuperComputer/QuantumComputer myself

[minibois]

Just up the numbers in their game engine? Include some higher res textures?

 

The technology isn't really the problem, a bigger deal would be getting all the assets to look good in that high detail.

[Linksys120n]

3 minutes ago, Jason Greene said:

Even with 2 1080 TI's in SLI, high end games struggle with 4K gaming(average of 27-30 fps on MEDIUM settings) 

dude where are you getting those numbers from... most benchmarks I have seen show a single 1080ti getting 60+ fps in games like gta5 at 4k and 40+ fps in games like the new battlefield whatever... and both of those are on MAX settings.

[Electronics Wizardy]

you dont make a game for a res, it will scale to any res just fine.

[TetraSky]

8k gaming on a console? Sorry but those rumors are just that, rumors.

It might be possible for 8k movie playback, but certainly not gaming at any decent framerate and 3d visuals.

[Joey Kapish]

18 minutes ago, Linksys120n said:

dude where are you getting those numbers from... most benchmarks I have seen show a single 1080ti getting 60+ fps in games like gta5 at 4k and 40+ fps in games like the new battlefield whatever... and both of those are on MAX settings.

GTA 5 "REDUX MOD" struggles with 2 1080 TI's at 4K. 

[Linksys120n]

1 minute ago, Jason Greene said:

GTA 5 "REDUX MOD" struggles with 2 1080 TI's at 4K. 

That's a fan-made mod and not officially supported by rockstar so it doesn't count.

[Joey Kapish]

4 minutes ago, Linksys120n said:

That's a fan-made mod and not officially supported by rockstar so it doesn't count.

Off-Topic: I don't believe mods like that are (quote on quote) "Fan-Made". I believe it's someone within side Rockstar who built the mod and probably released it as an additional map. Just like the scenario of those recent hacks that took place in U.K., they are saying that the tools the hackers used were NSA tools(developed by U.S. intelligence) and therefore could've been rogue agents who carried outhe that sophisticated attack. Bur then again this is off-topic

[AshleyAshes]

13 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

8k gaming on a console? Sorry but those rumors are just that, rumors.

100% this.  Not only is the Scorpio hardware just not there (Really, very little is there even if you want to build a huge PC for it) but it makes no sense as a consumer electronic.  There is no evidence of any 8K TVs making it to the consumer market.  While HDMI is being updated with support, that's really future proofing and ensuring compatibility for other applications in the future.  Until there's rhyme or reason to even have an 8K display in the consumer's living room, no one's going to make a console for 8K gaming.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Jason Greene said:

Okay so the rumors are that the new Xbox Scorpio is gonna support 8K gaming natively and my question is how would game developers be able to develop 8K gaming if current technology is not that good yet? 

This is incorrect. It will do 4K, not 8K. If it does 8K, it means it has HDMI 2.1 already, which I doubt as it was just announced at CES, but say it does. You'll enjoy 8K 2D games (or minimal 3D), with very simplistic textures.

 

Quote

Even with 2 1080 TI's in SLI, high end games struggle with 4K gaming(average of 27-30 fps on MEDIUM settings) and that's pretty much the best configuration you can get right now. So I'm wondering how would game developers be able to create games at 8K natively if our current technology sucks and hasn't advanced much? 

Well, the devs are working with the Dev Unit of the console. In the case of the XBox, the devs has their console connected to a network, and in Visual Studio, they can compile, and send the game to the console, and the console would run it. But yes, the console doesn't have magic pixy dust. Many people like to think that game console can be superior to PCs like "it used to be", and fuels there exaggerated rumors. But that was never the case, in reality. PCs were always more powerful than console, it was just that it was harder to code things. The concept of game engines didn't really exists in the early days of gaming, and you didn't have DirectX or OpenGL, making things harder. Not helped that graphics card where none programmable, and everything being super expensive that most people could not even dream of getting a good graphics card. I mean getting 8MB of RAM was like over 200$.

 

You are right about the game performance being limited with 4K, but in reality the graphics card can go as far as the display connection technology that it has can go to. And if it supports combining signals, where you have 2 or more displays output cable connected to 1 monitor, than that works too. Assuming you are not limited by anything related to display output, your GPU can easily do 100K resolution.. it will probably be a blank or colored screen. Maybe you can do Atari 2600 style graphics on it, all at 60fs, but yea. In terms of big AAA title games, as you said the GPU performance is limited. More specially, depending on the game, and game engine, the memory speed would be the limited factor for such big games due to the large and many textures needed. This is where the very expensive HBM2 memory comes in. So far, HBM2 hasn't reach the consumer market due to be relatively very expensive. Especially that you need a lot of it.. like 12GB or more.

 

Quote

The reason why I ask is because if they(game developers) are using SuperComputers/Servers/QuatumComputers to build they games, then I would like to build myself a SuperComputer/QuantumComputer myself

Game Developers don't use Super Computers. The only one using super computers in the "gaming world" is the hardware manufactures: Intel, Nvidia, AMD, etc. They code chips that are in development, which then are processed and simulated by super computers (Cray Super Computers systems in the case of Nvidia). Then the hardware team gets to go and say: "Ok, let's build a test to see if our implementation idea works. This test will show a color triangle in 2D, if it is green, then it passes our test, if red, it fails." They build their test, then they pass it through the simulator, then 1 weeks later, they get their results, as the super computer is not fast enough at doing the simulation. Once everything is done, to the company goals and liking, they render circuitry design out of their code, which then is past to a chip manufacture like TSMC, which produces the chip. They get it, put it on a engineering board, and that gets tested there. Then when an issue arise, they need to investigate to see if the program is Nvidia side or the chip manufacture side if there is a manufacture error due to a new process. Then both companies work together. Many years later, you have your new graphics card. If you wonder, it takes about 5 years to make a new GPU architecture, and thousands of engineers. So, while Volta architecture is near released for consumers. Nvidia is already working on the next GPU architecture, and the following one. And this is how it works for all hardware companies. That is why you have many times: a new architecture -> then revision -> new architecture -> revision, and so on and so forth. Sometimes, you have 2 or more revisions, if the new architecture is still in development. For example, Pascal is that. Volta got delayed. There was nothing in the road map between Maxwell and Volta, and sure enough, surprise Pascal appears.

 

You can build a super computer.. a super computer is nothing more than a computer that is faster than "normal computers". If your take your PC back in time, say back 10 years, your PC would be probably faster than any super computer of the time. To make them more interesting, Super computer are custom designed PCs including its hardware, like the CPU architecture, so that it is can be good at doing things meetings a clients need. For example, Cray Super computer that Nvidia has, are specially designed to be really good at doing chip simulation the way that Nvidia does them. It will probably suck in performance for playing games for the price as a result.

 

 

[Joey Kapish]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

This is incorrect. It will do 4K, not 8K. If it does 8K, it means it has HDMI 2.1 already, which I doubt as it was just announced at CES, but say it does. You'll enjoy 8K 2D games (or minimal 3D), with very simplistic textures.

 

Well, the devs are working with the Dev Unit of the console. In the case of the XBox, the devs has their console connected to a network, and in Visual Studio, they can compile, and send the game to the console, and the console would run it. But yes, the console doesn't have magic pixy dust. Many people like to think that game console can be superior to PCs like "it used to be", and fuels there exaggerated rumors. But that was never the case, in reality. PCs were always more powerful than console, it was just that it was harder to code things. The concept of game engines didn't really exists in the early days of gaming, and you didn't have DirectX or OpenGL, making things harder. Not helped that graphics card where none programmable, and everything being super expensive that most people could not even dream of getting a good graphics card. I mean getting 8MB of RAM was like over 200$.

 

You are right about the game performance being limited with 4K, but in reality the graphics card can go as far as the display connection technology that it has can go to. And if it supports combining signals, where you have 2 or more displays output cable connected to 1 monitor, than that works too. Assuming you are not limited by anything related to display output, your GPU can easily do 100K resolution.. it will probably be a blank or colored screen. Maybe you can do Atari 2600 style graphics on it, all at 60fs, but yea. In terms of big AAA title games, as you said the GPU performance is limited. More specially, depending on the game, and game engine, the memory speed would be the limited factor for such big games due to the large and many textures needed. This is where the very expensive HBM2 memory comes in. So far, HBM2 hasn't reach the consumer market due to be relatively very expensive. Especially that you need a lot of it.. like 12GB or more.

 

Game Developers don't use Super Computers. The only one using super computers in the "gaming world" is the hardware manufactures: Intel, Nvidia, AMD, etc. They code chips that are in development, which then are processed and simulated by super computers (Cray Super Computers systems in the case of Nvidia). Then the hardware team gets to go and say: "Ok, let's build a test to see if our implementation idea works. This test will show a color triangle in 2D, if it is green, then it passes our test, if red, it fails." They build their test, then they pass it through the simulator, then 1 weeks later, they get their results, as the super computer is not fast enough at doing the simulation. Once everything is done, to the company goals and liking, they render circuitry design out of their code, which then is past to a chip manufacture like TSMC, which produces the chip. They get it, put it on a engineering board, and that gets tested there. Then when an issue arise, they need to investigate to see if the program is Nvidia side or the chip manufacture side if there is a manufacture error due to a new process. Then both companies work together. Many years later, you have your new graphics card. If you wonder, it takes about 5 years to make a new GPU architecture, and thousands of engineers. So, while Volta architecture is near released for consumers. Nvidia is already working on the next GPU architecture, and the following one. And this is how it works for all hardware companies. That is why you have many times: a new architecture -> then revision -> new architecture -> revision, and so on and so forth. Sometimes, you have 2 or more revisions, if the new architecture is still in development. For example, Pascal is that. Volta got delayed. There was nothing in the road map between Maxwell and Volta, and sure enough, surprise Pascal appears.

 

You can build a super computer.. a super computer is nothing more than a computer that is faster than "normal computers". If your take your PC back in time, say back 10 years, your PC would be probably faster than any super computer of the time. To make them more interesting, Super computer are custom designed PCs including its hardware, like the CPU architecture, so that it is can be good at doing things meetings a clients need. For example, Cray Super computer that Nvidia has, are specially designed to be really good at doing chip simulation the way that Nvidia does them. It will probably suck in performance for playing games for the price as a result.

 

 

So my question is, do you know of or have heard of SuperComputers(And no, I'm not talking about computers with 2 physical processors, like servers) that are tailored for gaming specifics only? Like for example: A SuperComputer that can run GTA 5 "Redux mod" at 8K with 120 fps?

[BuckGup]

7 minutes ago, Jason Greene said:

So my question is, do you know of or have heard of SuperComputers(And no, I'm not talking about computers with 2 physical processors, like servers) that are tailored for gaming specifics only? Like for example: A SuperComputer that can run GTA 5 "Redux mod" at 8K with 120 fps?

I would be cheaper to make GTA V run on Vulkan than have it work correctly and efficiently with 4 GPUs and a baller CPU like a 6950X

[PlayStation 2]

2 hours ago, Jason Greene said:

GTA 5 "REDUX MOD" struggles with 2 1080 TI's at 4K. 

Redux is very demanding to my knowledge. If we were going with plain jane GTA V you could probably get 8k at 30-45fps fine.

[elis]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

if it is green, then it passes our test, if red, it fails

Lol. If red don't let AMD know

 

8K gaming ? Didn't Linus do it already ?

[Sauron]

I can tell you right now, those rumours about the xbox are bullshit.

 

As for games, when a game is developed well all it takes to "support" any resolution is set it in the menus. There is nothing special about higher resolutions, it's just about rendering the same scene on more pixels.

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, Jason Greene said:

So my question is, do you know of or have heard of SuperComputers(And no, I'm not talking about computers with 2 physical processors, like servers) that are tailored for gaming specifics only? Like for example: A SuperComputer that can run GTA 5 "Redux mod" at 8K with 120 fps?

A tailored computer, with an OS for gaming exists.. its called a game console. This is how each console manufacture can help get the most performance out of the hardware. And the specific hardware configuration, allows devs to push things further with optimization tricks for those target system.

 

A "super computer" as is for gaming, doesn't exists, and does exists. Gaming grade hardware that you can buy, say the GeForce GTX series graphics card is exactly just that. It is just common.. so "it's not a super computer". But the GeForce graphics card will give you the same or greater gaming performance over a Quadro series or even Tesla series graphics card of the similar performance.

[elis]

6 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

A tailored computer, with an OS for gaming exists.. its called a game console. This is how each console manufacture can help get the most performance out of the hardware. And the specific hardware configuration, allows devs to push things further with optimization tricks for those target system.

 

A "super computer" as is for gaming, doesn't exists, and does exists. Gaming grade hardware that you can buy, say the GeForce GTX series graphics card is exactly just that. It is just common.. so "it's not a super computer". But the GeForce graphics card will give you the same or greater gaming performance over a Quadro series or even Tesla series graphics card of the similar performance.

Actually, NVidia should be using a supercomputer for its game streaming on its tablet

[AshleyAshes]

3 hours ago, Jason Greene said:

So my question is, do you know of or have heard of SuperComputers(And no, I'm not talking about computers with 2 physical processors, like servers) that are tailored for gaming specifics only? Like for example: A SuperComputer that can run GTA 5 "Redux mod" at 8K with 120 fps?

Super computers arn't gaming machines.  They are massive clusters of computing power running freakishly paralleled tasks.  the Cray Titan for example is, to greatly simplify it, is over 700 cabinates stuffed with specialized blades powered by Opteron CPUs and Tesla GPUs, with a fast external interconnect bringing each node into communication with each other.  This is the kind of architecture that contemporary PC games flat out can't run on.  Software for super computers has to be specially written for the super computers.  Games and super computer software are a radically different kind of application and they don't lend themselves to each other.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, elis said:

Actually, NVidia should be using a supercomputer for its game streaming on its tablet

And they are. They have the NVIDIA Grid, and they partner with IBM too, their Tesla cars are hardware used in super computers.

[Joey Kapish]

1 hour ago, AshleyAshes said:

Super computers arn't gaming machines.  They are massive clusters of computing power running freakishly paralleled tasks.  the Cray Titan for example is, to greatly simplify it, is over 700 cabinates stuffed with specialized blades powered by Opteron CPUs and Tesla GPUs, with a fast external interconnect bringing each node into communication with each other.  This is the kind of architecture that contemporary PC games flat out can't run on.  Software for super computers has to be specially written for the super computers.  Games and super computer software are a radically different kind of application and they don't lend themselves to each other.

But see, that's the confusion comes in. I thought Quantum Computers(specifically powered by Quantum Processors) does run windows. I saw on YouTube (when they were demonstrating the Quantum Processor) that IBM were running the processors using windows. Look it up on YouTube. I'm not sure if they were using a OEM version of windows but you can see from the YouTube video that it definitely was windows that they were using and not just algorithms that they were running.

[AshleyAshes]

4 minutes ago, Jason Greene said:

But see, that's the confusion comes in. I thought Quantum Computers(specifically powered by Quantum Processors) does run windows. I saw on YouTube (when they were demonstrating the Quantum Processor) that IBM were running the processors using windows. Look it up on YouTube. I'm not sure if they were using a OEM version of windows but you can see from the YouTube video that it definitely was windows that they were using and not just algorithms that they were running.

You'll have to link me to this video, since I can't find anything in Google.

[Joey Kapish]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

A tailored computer, with an OS for gaming exists.. its called a game console. This is how each console manufacture can help get the most performance out of the hardware. And the specific hardware configuration, allows devs to push things further with optimization tricks for those target system.

 

A "super computer" as is for gaming, doesn't exists, and does exists. Gaming grade hardware that you can buy, say the GeForce GTX series graphics card is exactly just that. It is just common.. so "it's not a super computer". But the GeForce graphics card will give you the same or greater gaming performance over a Quadro series or even Tesla series graphics card of the similar performance.

What about a Quantum Computer (running a Quantum Processor)? Would a Quantum Processor equal the same performance as 4 Titan's in SLI? 

[Joey Kapish]

14 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

You'll have to link me to this video, since I can't find anything in Google.

Just search "D Wave" on Youtube. Even the Chinese beat the U.S. to Quantum Processors. Just search on YouTube and you'll find it. 

[Joey Kapish]

16 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

You'll have to link me to this video, since I can't find anything in Google.

Here's one link, but this is the Chinese people. But clearly you can see they're processing algorithms inside windows. 

 

[AshleyAshes]

2 minutes ago, Jason Greene said:

Here's one link, but this is the Chinese people. But clearly you can see they're processing algorithms inside windows. 

 

Yeah, I can see why you're getting confused.  You see a screen with what looks like windows 10 on it and you think that's the quantium computer. That most certainly isn't it, that's just control or monitoring software running on a classic computer.

 

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2092635/chinese-scientists-claim-milestone-developing-quantum

 

Even this article stresses "The Chinese team admit that their machine is of no practical use as it only carries out this one highly complex form of calculation, but it highlights the future potential of quantum computing."

 

In short, the actual quantum computer can't run Windows because well firstly, Windows doesn't run on such hardware AT ALL and that hardware can literally do only ONE thing.  But another point of confusion ist hat people think that quantum computers are a 'faster computer' but they aren't.  They are an entirely different BREED of computer that can excel at the kinds of math that classic computers do poorly at, but there are very specific use cases.  Quantium computers will NOT be something that makes your desktop go faster, much like how the technology that has the space shuttle orbiting the earth at 17,500 mph can not make your daily commute go faster.  It's WILDLY different situations.