Why Doesn't Linus Record in 60fps

[TAHIRMIA]

Linus isn't the one controlling the camera 

[TAHIRMIA]

2 hours ago, H0R53 said:

No you aren't, you have a valid point. RED makes shit hardware (compared to Sony or Cannon) and prices it high because it has a cool looking skull on it. Like wtf linus why the fuck did you buy that shit

 

Because it's 8k and Sony/Cannon do not have 8k products

[H0R53]

21 minutes ago, TAHIRMIA said:

Because it's 8k and Sony/Cannon do not have 8k products

less than 1% of the population in any given area have 8K tvs or screens. The world is not ready for 8K yet

[NullPointer_]

13 hours ago, Hi1307 said:

I'm pretty sure everyone's monitor here is 60fps (even phone screens run at 60fps). So why isn't LMG recording in 60fps? Are you telling more people have 8K screens than 60fps screens?!

 

YouTube has supported 60fps videos for years now, and LMG's workflow is still 30fps videos. WTF?

Reviews don't really need 60fps, the subject is only moving a little and most of the time the camera is stationary, so there is very little movement. It would take much more space up on the servers and probably make it more of a pain to edit. I am sure if they wanted to, they could easily publish at 60fps, but few would notice the difference, so what is the point. The same reason they don't publish in 8k, nobody has an 8k monitor and few, anyone, is running 4 x 4k multimonitor setup.

[2FA]

Jay has done a few 60FPS videos, it didn't really add much benefit or make it look better to be honest.

[mad dudy]

i dont think watch linus talk in 60 fps makes any better. linus also release 60fps that was really 30 and well none could tell the different.

[JoeCoke]

18 hours ago, PineyCreek said:

Saving space?  Maybe Channel Super Fun could benefit from it, but unless there's a lot of motion, why bother increasing storage requirements and rendering time?

Don't think they're worried about space... They shoot in 8K, which cost a shit ton to upgrade to and has very little benefit if any atm.

[Princess Luna]

18 hours ago, bindydad123 said:

Linus mention once in a video that he doesn't shot in 60fps because it won't make a difference for his content 

That who decides are the viewers, wouldn't you agree?

[Bouzoo]

12 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Err those are gameplay videos. There's a clear and distinct advantage to 60 FPS when it comes to things like Gameplay videos from E3. You cannot objectively compare that to LTT videos and say they are the same - it's misunderstanding the differences, at best.

I knew someone was gonna say that. I was not talking gameplay videos, but on stage presentations. Human presentations. Noticeable difference as well. 

[mariushm]

1. The content of most LTT videos does not require 60fps or 8K. Majority of scenes are talking persons in front of a green screen or B-roll footage (camera slowly moving in front of products), you don't need 60 fps and you don't need 8 K for that.

 

2. They record at 1080p and upsample  to 4K when rendering the final videos because Youtube is programmed in such a way that when it detects you upload a 4K video or higher, it uses higher bitrate for 4K AND 1080p when it recompressed the input to the various output formats it creates.

 

3. Whatever is played at higher than 1080p on Youtube, will be served using the VP9 codec.  Most video cards don't have hardware decoding of VP9 - the Pascal series of cards (GTX10xx) I think supports hardware decoding up to 8K 30fps but I may be wrong, it may be 60 fps. The Polaris series (RX4xx , RX 500) supports only hybrid decoding (big part of decoding on gpu, some on driver/cpu) and I think - but again I'm not sure - only up to 4K 60fps.

I also think the amount of video memory on the card matters, I think the nVidia cards with less than 3GB of memory can't decode VP9 4K 60fps in hardware, due to insufficient memory buffer.

 

So anyway the point is 8K is hard to play on most computers, not everyone has latest generation video cards to have some hardware acceleration for VP9. The 8K 25/30fps may play decoded by CPU only, but 60fps may not play.

 

4. 8K 60 fps would require maybe 10-20% extra bitrate compared to the 8K 24-30fps version, which already has too high bitrate for most viewers. Bitrate scales with resolution and fps but not linearly. If 1080p is 1x , then you'd need about 2.5-3x for 4K and for 8K you'd need about 4x-6x the amount of bitrate. 60fps vs 30 would add 10-20% to that amount.

So for example you may get good quality 1080p in 10-15mpbs , but for 4K you need 25-40mbps and for 8K you'd need at least 50-80 mbps. Going to 8k 60fps would raise that to maybe minimum bitrate with around 5-10 mbps.

Youtube has all the interest to cap the maximum bitrate to some value below 100 mbps, so with 8K 60 fps some high motion scenes may lose quality because they'd be bitrate starved compared to the 30fps versions of same clips

 

5. With the RED camera you record in raw formats of formats that are uncompressed or very light compressed (2.1:1 or 2.4:1), those cameras don't use codecs like XAVC-S that record 4K at 60-100 mbps. Therefore, going with 60fps instead of 30fps would most likely double the amount of storage required during recording of the clips used to create videos.

 

This would mean it would take longer to record each video because the camera guy would constantly have to take out hard drive and replace it with new empty drive and put the full drive to be copied to the  raw footage storage server.

 

For example , the camera can record at up to 300MB/s - the tech specs on their site say maximum  75 fps at 8K 2.4:1 (8192 x 3456) ... so let's say 100 MB/s for 24fps 8K footage vs 250 MB/s for the 8K 60fps

 

The Red cameras use expensive proprietary 480 GB SSD to record videos to, so at 100 MB/s you would fill one of those SSD drives in ~ 460 000 MB / 100 MB = 4600 seconds or ~ 75 minutes of footage, but just round it down to 60 minutes. Going from 24fps to 60fps would most likely drop the maximum time stored on such a SD to about 20-25 minutes.

As with any SSD, they have a limited number of erase cycles, so these proprietary mini-mags can be recorded fully and erased maybe 1000-1500 times before they're thrown away. 

So think about it ... would you record 20-25 minutes at a time or 60 minutes at a time when your 1850$ MINI-MAG drive will last for only about 1000-1500 uses?  Basically, each fill costs around 2$ and 24fps is about 3 times cheaper.

 

6. All people complaining that Linus bought this camera for Youtube ... they didn't, they produce videos for other things like events, commercials, corporate crap ... they don't pay salaries of 10-25 people just from Youtube advertising and sponsors. Youtube is just one revenue stream of many.

 

[dalekphalm]

On 2017-5-7 at 3:48 AM, Bouzoo said:

I knew someone was gonna say that. I was not talking gameplay videos, but on stage presentations. Human presentations. Noticeable difference as well. 

A couple of things to note:

1. If they are streaming on Twitch, 60 fps is kind of Twitch's "thing", so they're catering to the platform.

2. Generally speaking, they're still gonna show gameplay clips, trailers, etc. If those videos are in 60 FPS on screen, there may be some benefit to streaming at 60 FPS.

3. Noticeable does not mean a "bad trade off". Obviously this will differ depending on personal preference, but with LMG, the type of content, 60 FPS is NOT required. Would it be nice? Sure. But they made a compromise (higher res at 30 FPS), and I think it's a perfectly fine compromise.

[Bouzoo]

59 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

A couple of things to note:

1. If they are streaming on Twitch, 60 fps is kind of Twitch's "thing", so they're catering to the platform.

2. Generally speaking, they're still gonna show gameplay clips, trailers, etc. If those videos are in 60 FPS on screen, there may be some benefit to streaming at 60 FPS.

3. Noticeable does not mean a "bad trade off". Obviously this will differ depending on personal preference, but with LMG, the type of content, 60 FPS is NOT required. Would it be nice? Sure. But they made a compromise (higher res at 30 FPS), and I think it's a perfectly fine compromise.

Pretry much why I said it's not needed, but would be nice.

[Glenwing]

1:13:25