Multicopter Megathread

[Not_Sean]

4 hours ago, Hackentosher said:

Of all the radio companies in the industry right now, I think spektrum is in the position to make the most change. They have the resources and the brand to take back some market share from fr-sky, but what do they do? They come up with something no one asked for. A radio with a smartphone built in. Who cares? And for $600! That's insane! Sure it has crossfire support, but so does the qx7 for 1/6 the price. I would love it if spektrum got off their high horse and released an actual Taranis competitor. I want spektrum's design, build quality, gimbals, with all the support, RF link quality (or just build in a crossfire module), and features we love from the Taranis. If they could pull that off and sell it for $350 or less, I would seriously consider putting down my beloved Taranis. 

Well two markets they left is the guy with their Taranis and another is to do the Turnigy Evo but better, It was one of the fastest selling transmitters and for Racers, it is a huge success with many big pilots using them and no one else is competing against it.  I love my Evo but even I can admit it's not anything high quality or that just the form factor is too perfect for me.

[Hackentosher]

1 hour ago, Not_Sean said:

Well two markets they left is the guy with their Taranis and another is to do the Turnigy Evo but better, It was one of the fastest selling transmitters and for Racers, it is a huge success with many big pilots using them and no one else is competing against it.  I love my Evo but even I can admit it's not anything high quality or that just the form factor is too perfect for me.

The evo was the radio everyone wanted until the QX7 came out. I thought was really interesting about it was that Flysky/Turnigy aren't known for high quality things, but people were putting down their Tarani in favor of it. But then people quickly realized the RF link wasn't as good and it had its flaws right when the qx7 came out for not much more. I think Spektrum, and Futaba especially, need to realize that their products are no longer viable. Everything you can do with Futaba's $3000 radio or Spektrum's $2000 radio can be done and more with a Taranis. Now for $100. If these two companies want to stay in the game, they need to realize the growing market in FPV and make a radio that is competitive. Built in Crossfire is a great idea, I think, update ergonomics, something between the Evo and the QX7, and a sub $300 price tag. I honestly believe there is no reason for anyone in the RC industry to buy anything but a Taranis to fly something simply because of the value FrSky is squeezing out of it. Not only that, but affordable, compact, and diverse telemetry sensors that just plug in and work with their S-port system. I'm really disappointed because I don't love everything FrSky does and I really would like to see competition in the space, but that is currently not the case. 

[Not_Sean]

1 hour ago, Hackentosher said:

The evo was the radio everyone wanted until the QX7 came out.

1

Agree with everything you said, Really good point but the above.

 

I've never had any desire for the QX7, I don't like its ergonomics anymore than the Taranis, just don't see any point for me who only does racing and freestyle to have to carry around such a big box when I'll never use more than an arm switch and on the other 3  point switch I have 0, Motor buzzer, Turtle mode.

 

And I love the xbox shape, fits me so so perfectly. 

[Hackentosher]

33 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

Agree with everything you said, Really good point but the above.

 

I've never had any desire for the QX7, I don't like its ergonomics anymore than the Taranis, just don't see any point for me who only does racing and freestyle to have to carry around such a big box when I'll never use more than an arm switch and on the other 3  point switch I have 0, Motor buzzer, Turtle mode.

 

And I love the xbox shape, fits me so so perfectly. 

I understand that people have their preferences, but my point is the qx7 offers more features and flexibility to all kinds of different pilots with slightly higher quality features (gimbals mainly). The main criticism I heard of the evo is that it's impossible to pinch with. The qx7 is a little difficult to pinch, but if you remove some of the top switches, it's very doable.

 

Also you're totally right about not needing many switches, I use two, but it's nice to have more available for flying planes, or take advantage of other features of betaflight, or other features within the radio. I used three switches at one point, and I could use more (a rate switch, and then angle mode on a swich for an "oh crap" mode). This is why I say the industry needs something between a qx7 and an evo. Something more ergonomic to pinchers and thumbers and I think fr-sky will get there first. 

 

One thing you mentioned that I do miss from my flysky radio is how compact the evo is. Like. It's tiny. I put my x9d in a lunch box, and then in my backpack for protection. It's not nearly as convenient as just tossing the cover on and throwing the whole thing in your bag. I wonder what it would be like to have a mavic style controller for fpv. Tiny little package, throw in your phone for the computer functionality, and then fold it up when you're done. Only thing I see being an issue is RF link and battery for the radio, but I guess that could run off your phone. 

[Not_Sean]

1 hour ago, Hackentosher said:

I understand that people have their preferences, but my point is the qx7 offers more features and flexibility to all kinds of different pilots with slightly higher quality features (gimbals mainly). The main criticism I heard of the evo is that it's impossible to pinch with. The qx7 is a little difficult to pinch, but if you remove some of the top switches, it's very doable.

 

Also you're totally right about not needing many switches, I use two, but it's nice to have more available for flying planes, or take advantage of other features of betaflight, or other features within the radio. I used three switches at one point, and I could use more (a rate switch, and then angle mode on a swich for an "oh crap" mode). This is why I say the industry needs something between a qx7 and an evo. Something more ergonomic to pinchers and thumbers and I think fr-sky will get there first. 

 

One thing you mentioned that I do miss from my flysky radio is how compact the evo is. Like. It's tiny. I put my x9d in a lunch box, and then in my backpack for protection. It's not nearly as convenient as just tossing the cover on and throwing the whole thing in your bag. I wonder what it would be like to have a mavic style controller for fpv. Tiny little package, throw in your phone for the computer functionality, and then fold it up when you're done. Only thing I see being an issue is RF link and battery for the radio, but I guess that could run off your phone. 

Yeah for me the extra features of the QX actually are what put me off, I like clean and minimal. I don't even need the screen on the Evo. just a LED for battery and Bind button and I'm good. 

Yeah, its impossible for pincers but for me that's fine and its very upfront about it, and with more "Xbox Generation" flying these days think we'll see less and less pincers on the field. 

 

Na do agree with you, If you flying more then drones the Taranis is king, it's a great controller, just as we said, its size. My entire setup fits into one small Flightcase, batteries drone, everything. I'll post a pic soon as the rebuild is finished  

Current state: 

[Hackentosher]

50 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

Yeah for me the extra features of the QX actually are what put me off, I like clean and minimal. I don't even need the screen on the Evo. just a LED for battery and Bind button and I'm good. 

Yeah, its impossible for pincers but for me that's fine and its very upfront about it, and with more "Xbox Generation" flying these days think we'll see less and less pincers on the field. 

 

Na do agree with you, If you flying more then drones the Taranis is king, it's a great controller, just as we said, its size. My entire setup fits into one small Flightcase, batteries drone, everything. I'll post a pic soon as the rebuild is finished  

Current state: 
 

I think you might be the only one lol.

 

I don't think we'll see more or less pinchers at the field, it's personal preference, and a lot of smoother pilots favor pinching because they say it gives them more control or confidence or whatever. I'm toying with it in the sims, but I can't fly straight if I pinch.

 

Dude, how do you fit everything in a case? I'm running out of room in my normal sized backpack.

[Legolessed]

What is the longest range kind of fog type system. I’m trying to make a system that doesn’t have to be smooth at all in terms of pictures. It could be a frame every hour. But it has to be super long range and not insanely expensive. Thanks! It’s been a long time since I’ve posted  

[Hackentosher]

12 minutes ago, Legolessed said:

What is the longest range kind of fog type system. I’m trying to make a system that doesn’t have to be smooth at all in terms of pictures. It could be a frame every hour. But it has to be super long range and not insanely expensive. Thanks! It’s been a long time since I’ve posted  

Do you mean FPV? The most important thing for going long range is antennas and environment. You can also go further with a lower frequency for video (2.4ghz) and then you want your control link to be on a lower frequency than your video. So I would suggest a 600+mw 2.4ghz vtx and then a crossfire micro. Also take it slow when you start going on long range missions. Fly what you're comfortable, then go a little further then come back. Then a little further, then come back. You'll definitely want a gps on the aircraft, dvr on your goggles, and your osd displaying battery voltage, RSSI, Mah consumption, mah per minute, and your gps coordinates. That way if the model goes down and gets unplugged, you have the gps coordinates of the aircraft in the dvr that you can plug into google maps and recover the model. Long range is nothing to go into haphazardly unless you really want to lose a model. Be careful, be smart, and don't be cheap. Trust your gear, but understand and be realistic about the limitations of your gear.

[Legolessed]

13 minutes ago, Hackentosher said:

Do you mean FPV? The most important thing for going long range is antennas and environment. You can also go further with a lower frequency for video (2.4ghz) and then you want your control link to be on a lower frequency than your video. So I would suggest a 600+mw 2.4ghz vtx and then a crossfire micro. Also take it slow when you start going on long range missions. Fly what you're comfortable, then go a little further then come back. Then a little further, then come back. You'll definitely want a gps on the aircraft, dvr on your goggles, and your osd displaying battery voltage, RSSI, Mah consumption, mah per minute, and your gps coordinates. That way if the model goes down and gets unplugged, you have the gps coordinates of the aircraft in the dvr that you can plug into google maps and recover the model. Long range is nothing to go into haphazardly unless you really want to lose a model. Be careful, be smart, and don't be cheap. Trust your gear, but understand and be realistic about the limitations of your gear.

Ok thanks! I found an old rc groups thread about 35mhz and 433mhz. Are those obsolete, or really far range? I’m making a probe so I don’t need smooth video. Thanks sorry I’m slowly getting into this. 

[Hackentosher]

20 minutes ago, Legolessed said:

Ok thanks! I found an old rc groups thread about 35mhz and 433mhz. Are those obsolete, or really far range? I’m making a probe so I don’t need smooth video. Thanks sorry I’m slowly getting into this. 

How smooth your video is has nothing to do with your video frequency. I think you should do a lot more research into rf limitations of RC stuff before embarking on this stuff.

[Legolessed]

28 minutes ago, Hackentosher said:

How smooth your video is has nothing to do with your video frequency. I think you should do a lot more research into rf limitations of RC stuff before embarking on this stuff.

Ok I will. Thanks. I just assumed the lack of bandwidth in the longer wavelengths would attribute to lower frame rates.

[Hackentosher]

4 minutes ago, Legolessed said:

Ok I will. Thanks. I just assumed the lack of bandwidth in the longer wavelengths would attribute to lower frame rates.

I don't think that's how that works. 2.4ghz video should get you a few miles if you have good antennas pointed the right was and a good environment. 

[KaminKevCrew]

On 12/7/2017 at 1:30 PM, Hackentosher said:

The evo was the radio everyone wanted until the QX7 came out. I thought was really interesting about it was that Flysky/Turnigy aren't known for high quality things, but people were putting down their Tarani in favor of it. But then people quickly realized the RF link wasn't as good and it had its flaws right when the qx7 came out for not much more. I think Spektrum, and Futaba especially, need to realize that their products are no longer viable. Everything you can do with Futaba's $3000 radio or Spektrum's $2000 radio can be done and more with a Taranis. Now for $100. If these two companies want to stay in the game, they need to realize the growing market in FPV and make a radio that is competitive. Built in Crossfire is a great idea, I think, update ergonomics, something between the Evo and the QX7, and a sub $300 price tag. I honestly believe there is no reason for anyone in the RC industry to buy anything but a Taranis to fly something simply because of the value FrSky is squeezing out of it. Not only that, but affordable, compact, and diverse telemetry sensors that just plug in and work with their S-port system. I'm really disappointed because I don't love everything FrSky does and I really would like to see competition in the space, but that is currently not the case. 

I disagree. Futaba and Spektrum products are still very viable for the markets they serve. Yes, they're more expensive, but the quality of their radios are nothing to raise your nose at. They're quite nice. Also, they put a LOT of time into their software, and for it to be reasonably easy to use. That's the whole point of the iX12. The android functionality will make it a lot easier to update the radio, and to program it. Keep in mind that for these companies, FPV and drones are still an insanely small part of the market. Most of their business is people who fly planes. (Flite Test did a pretty good video with the Spektrum Product manager recently.) So really, they're still catering to the business that they're getting. Also, for many of these people that fly massive planes, having compact sensors, etc. really don't matter that much, as there's so much space. I do wish that Spektrum would have a JR style port in the back, rather than the silly serial port that requires a cable purchase...

On 12/7/2017 at 3:26 PM, Hackentosher said:

I understand that people have their preferences, but my point is the qx7 offers more features and flexibility to all kinds of different pilots with slightly higher quality features (gimbals mainly). The main criticism I heard of the evo is that it's impossible to pinch with. The qx7 is a little difficult to pinch, but if you remove some of the top switches, it's very doable.

 

Also you're totally right about not needing many switches, I use two, but it's nice to have more available for flying planes, or take advantage of other features of betaflight, or other features within the radio. I used three switches at one point, and I could use more (a rate switch, and then angle mode on a swich for an "oh crap" mode). This is why I say the industry needs something between a qx7 and an evo. Something more ergonomic to pinchers and thumbers and I think fr-sky will get there first. 

 

One thing you mentioned that I do miss from my flysky radio is how compact the evo is. Like. It's tiny. I put my x9d in a lunch box, and then in my backpack for protection. It's not nearly as convenient as just tossing the cover on and throwing the whole thing in your bag. I wonder what it would be like to have a mavic style controller for fpv. Tiny little package, throw in your phone for the computer functionality, and then fold it up when you're done. Only thing I see being an issue is RF link and battery for the radio, but I guess that could run off your phone. 

Keep in mind too, that the QX7s has angled switches on the top - which makes it very easy to pinch on. The regular X7 has them sticking straight up.

 

As someone who has to drive somewhere I need to fly, I'm really not bothered by the size of my radio (The fact that I fly an X9e is testament to that.) and while I don't use a whole lot of switches currently, I definitely can't give up having sliders on the side of my radio for easy use of flaps (I fly planes about as often as I fly quads, and having the ability to precisely control flaps is something that I'm really not willing to give up.)

On 12/7/2017 at 5:42 PM, Hackentosher said:

I think you might be the only one lol.

 

I don't think we'll see more or less pinchers at the field, it's personal preference, and a lot of smoother pilots favor pinching because they say it gives them more control or confidence or whatever. I'm toying with it in the sims, but I can't fly straight if I pinch.

 

Dude, how do you fit everything in a case? I'm running out of room in my normal sized backpack.

I agree about the number of pinchers, etc. I fly pinching almost exclusively, and I'm definitely a part of the Xbox generation. If you want to try pinch, I would suggest tightening up the springs on your radio. I've found that, at least when starting out, it's a lot easier to find center which you may find helpful. Also, switching to a plane in your sim might be a little easier to start out, as they're somewhat less sensitive to inputs when compared to drones.

On 12/8/2017 at 10:52 AM, Legolessed said:

Ok I will. Thanks. I just assumed the lack of bandwidth in the longer wavelengths would attribute to lower frame rates.

Since we're still sending relatively low quality video through the goggles, bandwith hasn't really been an issue. Hell, old analog TVs ran on frequencies as low as 54MHZ, so really, you're not likely to have any issues there. Just make sure that you use a lower frequency for your radio than your video - if you lose video you can still initiate a return to home or something, but you won't know if you don't lose any video until you lose the radio link...
 

EDIT: I also really want to try out a Jeti radio. They seem like they're extremely nice. Plus, you can actually physically rotate the gimbals, which will allow you to compensate for the angle of your hands. Oh, and their tray radios look really nice. I think I'll end up getting a Horus X12 first though, seeing as all of my gear is FrSky right now anyway.

[Legolessed]

i was at the store and there was a parrot swing drone for over $80 off. I got it! This thing is awesome! Im debating whether or not to do a video review. 

[Not_Sean]

@Hackentosher Had my Lux go up in smoke for no reason, so I'm back on a Naze till I can figure out what I want, I seem to be the anti-FC.also decided to do a full rebuild and sort out all the little bits that were annoying me and added some LED goodness here we go, All ready for the next trek through the mountains to find those epic spots 

[Hackentosher]

Oh noes I thought people had really good luck with those lumenier boards. 

 

So how's everyone's keychains looking? Here's mine

 

Spoiler

 

[Daysy]

@Hackentosher I blew an esc on my first pack so I think my dead parts collection might grow quite quickly

[Not_Sean]

11 hours ago, Daysy said:

@Hackentosher I blew an esc on my first pack so I think my dead parts collection might grow quite quickly

hahaha welcome to the world of drone flying. Its only going to get bigger

[Daysy]

8 hours ago, Not_Sean said:

hahaha welcome to the world of drone flying. Its only going to get bigger

Haha yeah I expect so. so long as I learn from my mistakes I don't mind too much. 

[Hackentosher]

25 minutes ago, Daysy said:

Haha yeah I expect so. so long as I learn from my mistakes I don't mind too much. 

I think the most important thing is to check everything you solder with a multimeter for shorts. Then plug into a power supply or some kind of smoke stopping device or something that will save your parts in the event of a short. 
 

I think I have a set of dead red butts on my shelf? A few ESCs, a PDB, and then my last Naze and my first X4R on my keys lol.

[Daysy]

 

11 minutes ago, Hackentosher said:

I think the most important thing is to check everything you solder with a multimeter for shorts. Then plug into a power supply or some kind of smoke stopping device or something that will save your parts in the event of a short. 
 

I think I have a set of dead red butts on my shelf? A few ESCs, a PDB, and then my last Naze and my first X4R on my keys lol.

That's quite the collection ? I have a bit of electronics experience so that isn't too daunting to me but your right checking your work as you go is a must.

I found out the hard way that air mode isn't a good idea for beginners and that my arm switch would fail to disarm if I panicked and slapped at all my switches trying to disarm in a crash

[Hackentosher]

1 hour ago, Daysy said:

 

I found out the hard way that air mode isn't a good idea for beginners and that my arm switch would fail to disarm if I panicked and slapped at all my switches trying to disarm in a crash

I disagree. If you end up inverted or you cut the power, you want that pid controller keeping you steady so you can figure out what's going on. Armored is always a good idea imo, you just gotta get your switches down to muscle memory. There's also something to be said about not disarming the moment you hit a tree. I find usually I can fight my way out of a tree so I don't end up having to climb for it. It's all a balance of knowing where shit is and knowing when to cut your losses and hit the switch. 

[KaminKevCrew]

On 12/11/2017 at 11:55 AM, Not_Sean said:

@Hackentosher Had my Lux go up in smoke for no reason, so I'm back on a Naze till I can figure out what I want, I seem to be the anti-FC.also decided to do a full rebuild and sort out all the little bits that were annoying me and added some LED goodness here we go, All ready for the next trek through the mountains to find those epic spots

I think I'm going to use a HobbyWing stack on my next quad (likely to be an Armattan Rooster) just because they stack together without any soldering

7 minutes ago, Hackentosher said:

I disagree. If you end up inverted or you cut the power, you want that pid controller keeping you steady so you can figure out what's going on. Armored is always a good idea imo, you just gotta get your switches down to muscle memory. There's also something to be said about not disarming the moment you hit a tree. I find usually I can fight my way out of a tree so I don't end up having to climb for it. It's all a balance of knowing where shit is and knowing when to cut your losses and hit the switch. 

I agree with this sentiment. Also, airmode (or idle up - either way) is definitely better than neither. I personally have air mode on a 3pos switch. Furthest away from me is stability mode, second is horizon (mainly because I don't have any 2pos switches on that side) and the third is finally air mode. I think it's nice in case I really mess up.

[Daysy]

2 hours ago, Hackentosher said:

I disagree. If you end up inverted or you cut the power, you want that pid controller keeping you steady so you can figure out what's going on. Armored is always a good idea imo, you just gotta get your switches down to muscle memory. There's also something to be said about not disarming the moment you hit a tree. I find usually I can fight my way out of a tree so I don't end up having to climb for it. It's all a balance of knowing where shit is and knowing when to cut your losses and hit the switch. 

Yeah I've only flown two and a half batterys in my whole 5in career though so I'm still makeing that muscle memory for now and my quad falling through a hedge and then spazzing out on the ground while I desperately tryed to work out why it wouldn't disarm is the reason I have flown 2.5 not 3. I have fixed the logic for my arm system now though so in theory it shouldn't happen again but I'd rather fly a few more packs and get a feel for things before I try flying like charpu again ?

2 hours ago, KaminKevCrew said:

I agree with this sentiment. Also, airmode (or idle up - either way) is definitely better than neither. I personally have air mode on a 3pos switch. Furthest away from me is stability mode, second is horizon (mainly because I don't have any 2pos switches on that side) and the third is finally air mode. I think it's nice in case I really mess up.

I think I might try that, I have a similar setup now with, autolevel - horizon - rate mode, but I could easily change to fit air mode in 

[Not_Sean]

15 hours ago, Daysy said:

 

That's quite the collection ? I have a bit of electronics experience so that isn't too daunting to me but your right checking your work as you go is a must.

I found out the hard way that air mode isn't a good idea for beginners and that my arm switch would fail to disarm if I panicked and slapped at all my switches trying to disarm in a crash

What controller do you have, the Best suggestion I can make is grab the DRL simulator, the drone is slow and lazy but for a beginner its perfect.  it's just a great way to double your stick time without the constant rebuilds. 

13 hours ago, KaminKevCrew said:

I think I'm going to use a HobbyWing stack on my next quad (likely to be an Armattan Rooster) just because they stack together without any soldering

 

I've always loved their Armadillo frame, one day when I'm all grown up maybe I'll give it a go. 

 

@Hackentosher Know you won't like it  but ordered a Revolt yesterday, the local store was doing them on special with a mad discount so decided fuck it worst case its shit and I go back to the naze and buy something else.