Putin directly involved with US Hack

[SansVarnic]

6 minutes ago, LoE Ferret said:

Now that would be "reckless" behaviour. Totally out of character to these types of individuals... 

 

Oh god I can't even finish that sentence without getting angry.

You forgot "/s"

[Albatross]

Proof or GTFO "sources". I don't want a hack's "he did it" or hear from a source like the CIA who hasn't even released the "damning evidence" who are overwhelming vocal about their negative views on Russia and willingness to cripple whatever relationship we still have.

 

I don't trust them at all and people who accept this as fact are naive.

[RexinOridle]

If you don't know the news, you're uninformed. If you know the news, you're misinformed.

 

------ Denzel Washington

[TidaLWaveZ]

13 hours ago, RexinOridle said:

If you don't know the news, you're uninformed. If you know the news, you're misinformed.

 

------ Denzel Washington

If you don't know Mark Twain quotes, you're uninformed. If you do know Mark Twain quotes, you're misinformed.

[Delicieuxz]

 

[TidaLWaveZ]

24 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

-snip

Hilarious.

 

I've thought about it a lot and just don't understand what path of thought could conclude that Russia is responsible for the outcome of the election.  All I could think of is that some people actually believe that Russia used mind control on the American masses.

[Delicieuxz]

7 minutes ago, TidaLWaveZ said:

Hilarious.

 

I've thought about it a lot and just don't understand what path of thought could conclude that Russia is responsible for the outcome of the election.  All I could think of is that some people actually believe that Russia used mind control on the American masses.

Russian hackers did all the following:

- committed electoral fraud and shafted Sanders for the democratic nomination
- established a home email server for state secrets, lied about it and avoided prosecution because of lack of intent
- shot the DNC staffer who had access to the leaked emails
- used a fake charity to fund an election
- sold influence via pay for play 
- used fake charity for private expenses
- lied, lied, and lied
- completely failed in US foreign policy

 

[TidaLWaveZ]

[TidaLWaveZ]

On and on it goes

 

https://www.engadget.com/2016/12/16/fbi-backs-cia-claims-that-russia-hacked-the-election/#comments

[spartaman64]

from reading the title i imagine putin sitting at a computer with a mechanical cherry blue keyboard typing rapidly and hacking into hillary's email server with command line text scrolling across his screen

[AresKrieger]

On 12/15/2016 at 2:06 PM, Sakkura said:

Oh okay so it's just a conspiracy amongst all the Western media. Yeah that's waaay more believable.

A conspiracy about the CIA funneling info to major media outlets was already proven true, so it is actually quite believable

[Sakkura]

1 hour ago, AresKrieger said:

A conspiracy about the CIA funneling info to major media outlets was already proven true, so it is actually quite believable

Not sure what you're referring to, but sure they're capable of that. However, there are two issues with that conspiracy theory. One is that CIA has zero motive to make this up. The other is that many other sources confirm what the CIA is saying. In fact, every US intelligence agency backs it up, AND independent private investigations have come to the same conclusions.

 

People are mindlessly going "show us the evidence" but that too is fatally flawed: Not only is there a lot of already public evidence, but the additional, classified evidence from the intelligence community is solid enough that Republicans are calling for an investigation. That also incidentally proves the "it's just the Democrats being sore losers" claim wrong.

 

And if people have a problem with classified intel, they need a primer on what the heck intelligence agencies do. Let's imagine they got confirmation that not only Russia did this, but Putin himself was involved, from a CIA mole inside the Kremlin. How clever would it be for the CIA to publish that, in a verifiable way, ie. with the actual name of that mole? Yeahhh...

 

Personally, my conclusion is that the Russians obviously did the hack. They have the means, they have a pretty strong motive, and all the available evidence points to them. They also obviously had great deniability, helped by the Trump meme brigades and people's general rejection of evidence this year.

 

Was Putin in charge? That's much less certain. But the fact that it's a fairly major and sensitive operation suggests it would have required his say-so.

[AresKrieger]

2 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

snip

Operation Mockingbird

 

Quote

Evidence of its continuity may possibly include the false mainstream media assertion of the existence of WMDs in Iraq that led to the 2003 invasion of Iraq and ongoing efforts to label Wiki leaks documents as "fake news" by the same media outlets that were implicated by name by the Church Committee congressional hearings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

 

(I'd source a better article than wikipedia but you didn't really need convincing anyway as to the CIA's capabilities.)

 

This is why I never believed the media in the first place, and never will unless proof is given now does that lead to an issue in this particular instance yes, as for motive that is fairly straight forward to me it is about influence over countries who have reason or have had reason in the past to fear Russia. Granted Russia is indeed a threat but to compare modern Russia to the soviets level of threat is absurd but that is how it seems to be being pushed. As far as I'm concerned China is a larger threat to the US currently in every aspect except nuclear arsenal.

 

Now is it a valid possibility that Russia leaked the emails, yes, was Putin directly involved, maybe, but is this distracting from the fact said emails were valid and showed how broken the system is, yes. I would be fine with the conclusion if it clearly wasn't being used to hide the fact the info leaked is damning, but since it is a scapegoat for what I find to be the bigger story I have reason to question its validity without more proof.

[stconquest]

26 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

Not sure what you're referring to, but sure they're capable of that. However, there are two issues with that conspiracy theory. One is that CIA has zero motive to make this up. The other is that many other sources confirm what the CIA is saying. In fact, every US intelligence agency backs it up, AND independent private investigations have come to the same conclusions.

 

People are mindlessly going "show us the evidence" but that too is fatally flawed: Not only is there a lot of already public evidence, but the additional, classified evidence from the intelligence community is solid enough that Republicans are calling for an investigation. That also incidentally proves the "it's just the Democrats being sore losers" claim wrong.

 

And if people have a problem with classified intel, they need a primer on what the heck intelligence agencies do. Let's imagine they got confirmation that not only Russia did this, but Putin himself was involved, from a CIA mole inside the Kremlin. How clever would it be for the CIA to publish that, in a verifiable way, ie. with the actual name of that mole? Yeahhh...

 

Personally, my conclusion is that the Russians obviously did the hack. They have the means, they have a pretty strong motive, and all the available evidence points to them. They also obviously had great deniability, helped by the Trump meme brigades and people's general rejection of evidence this year.

 

Was Putin in charge? That's much less certain. But the fact that it's a fairly major and sensitive operation suggests it would have required his say-so.

You could be right... Russia is capable of this...

 

...then again, I am still waiting to find out what happened on 9/11.  Sometimes, we don't get to know.

 

I would not be surprised if this story is buried and gone soon.  Either they cannot divulge the evidence, or there is none.  Not any of us here has any real chance at seeing any real evidence, I think.  Just soak up the little information they throw at us and be patient.

 

The story of the hacks is a big one... It showed us the inner workings of corporate owned government and that the US public is easily swayed.  They denounce a corporate owned politician, then elect another one into office because he simply said he is would not be corporate owned.

 

What if the hack was orchestrated by another party other than Russia, and without their aid, then handed the data to Wikileaks... but made sure it got into Russian hands well before Wikileaks got it.  That would put Russia's, and maybe Putin's, fingerprints on the data.

[Sakkura]

7 minutes ago, stconquest said:

I would not be surprised if this story is buried and gone soon.  Either they cannot divulge the evidence, or there is none.  Not any of us here has any real chance at seeing any real evidence, I think.  Just soak up the little information they throw at us and be patient.

Also depends how Trump gets along with Congress. It's pretty unusual that Republicans are in favor of an investigation that would raise doubts about the election of a Republican president. If he manages to get a better relationship with them, that will also help this case die out.

[stconquest]

1 minute ago, Sakkura said:

Also depends how Trump gets along with Congress. It's pretty unusual that Republicans are in favor of an investigation that would raise doubts about the election of a Republican president. If he manages to get a better relationship with them, that will also help this case die out.

I am more worried about interests that would benefit from a war with Russia.  Ahhh, life in a feudal society.  

 

There are probably a good percentage of Republicans that value the integrity of the country's election more than having Trump in the White House.

[AresKrieger]

10 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

It's pretty unusual that Republicans are in favor of an investigation that would raise doubts about the election of a Republican president.

Well here's the biggest kicker of all though Trump ran as a Republican and has fairly Republican views he isn't part of their establishment so they'd like to have an excuse to get rid of him in their back pocket, they know they can't kill him at this point due to the likely outcome of complete anarchy awaiting that action so alternative must be set up in advance.

7 minutes ago, stconquest said:

There are probably a good percentage of Republicans that value the integrity of the country's election more than having Trump in the White House.

Some of this too ^^, McCain is someone who's motivation would be along these line while someone like Mitch McConnell has more nefarious intentions I'm sure.

[Kamina]

No proof or transparency to the public.

Calling McCarthyism on this.

 

Why trust the CIA? Stage coups, assassinate leaders, spread propaganda, arm terrorists like the Mujahideen (al Qaeda, now known as al Nusra). They've even gotten CIA agents killed in Jordan for trying to train 'rebels'. They've been trying to overthrow the legitimate government of Syria over some pipelines.

 

 

Also, http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/08/homeland-security-tied-to-attempted-hack-of-georgias-election-database-report.html

 

Doesn't sound like Russians to me. 

 

DNC Staffer murdered after DNC leak:

http://nypost.com/2016/08/10/julian-assange-suggests-dnc-staffer-was-shot-dead-for-being-a-source/

 

 

[Trik'Stari]

I would love to see the evidence. Oh wait, "that's classified". Right.

 

Seriously. The CIA/NSA announced a little while ago that they would be fighting a misinformation campaign against Russia (although why you would announce that, is fucking beyond me). And people actually take these claims seriously?

 

The only group I see currently, arguably, proveably trying to undermine the election process and the results of the election are..... the democrat party.

[stconquest]

5 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

I would love to see the evidence. Oh wait, "that's classified". Right.

 

Seriously. The CIA/NSA announced a little while ago that they would be fighting a misinformation campaign against Russia (although why you would announce that, is fucking beyond me). And people actually take these claims seriously?

 

The only group I see currently, arguably, proveably trying to undermine the election process and the results of the election are..... the democrat party.

So you are 100% sure the Russians took no act to gain data from any government agencies through "hacking"?

 

How are the democrats trying to undermine the election process?  Is that anything like Trump trying to remove a president from office because he felt a black person could not be born in the USA?

 

[Trik'Stari]

Just now, stconquest said:

So you are 100% sure the Russians took no act to gain data from any government agencies through "hacking"?

 

How are the democrats trying to undermine the election process?  Is that anything like Trump trying to remove a president from office because he felt a black person could not be born in the USA?

 

Am I 100% sure? No, I am not. Do we have ANY. EVIDENCE. AT. ALL. That these claims are true? We do not. We have the testimony of people who have been caught flat out lying to congress, many, many, many, MANY times THROUGHOUT THEIR ENTIRE HISTORY AS AGENCIES.

 

And no, it is not any different. Although I'm not ever sure what you're talking about. I remember the birther movement, it was retarded, but where is this "a black person couldn't be born in the US" thing coming from?

[stconquest]

5 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Am I 100% sure? No, I am not. Do we have ANY. EVIDENCE. AT. ALL. That these claims are true? We do not. We have the testimony of people who have been caught flat out lying to congress, many, many, many, MANY times THROUGHOUT THEIR ENTIRE HISTORY AS AGENCIES.

 

And no, it is not any different. Although I'm not ever sure what you're talking about. I remember the birther movement, it was retarded, but where is this "a black person couldn't be born in the US" thing coming from?

That was the main reason the birther movement was even supported.  Are you telling me that some crazies in the USA don't believe the white man is a genetic superior to other races?

 

[Guest Kloaked]

4 minutes ago, stconquest said:

That was the main reason the birther movement was even supported.  Are you telling me that some crazies in the USA don't believe the white man is a genetic superior to other races?

 

Race literally has nothing to do with it. Stop believing everything you hear Cenk say on TYT.

[Trik'Stari]

5 minutes ago, stconquest said:

That was the main reason the birther movement was even supported.  Are you telling me that some crazies in the USA don't believe the white man is a genetic superior to other races?

 

*unrelated ...oh golly... we have ninjas aboot.

Oh I know for a fact we do, I'm from the south. We also have plenty of people who think that the white race is a scourge upon humanity and actively advocate in colleges for them to be eradicated. We even have college students pushing for segregated housing that bans white people because "white people are violent and toxic.".

 

Not to mention that your entire argument is predicated upon attacking the people making the argument and not what they said (which was stupid, I'll admit). Try actually attacking the argument itself, not the person making it. The race card is not an argument, it's a means to end the argument in a way that makes it appear that you've won. An attempt to silence anyone who disagrees with you. Nothing more.

 

Please, do not try to act like the left is completely clean and golden and morally superior in every way. They are FAR from it.

[stconquest]

1 minute ago, Kloaked said:

Race literally has nothing to do with it. Stop believing everything you hear Cenk say on TYT.

Huh?