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Samsung To Put DDR4 4266 in a Phone

patrickjp93
By patrickjp93
in Tech News
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3 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

So everything that is not a platformer is pointless on a phone. I'm sorry what?

You waste power doing things that aren't even enjoyable on a phone. Seriously, battery life is more important than trying to push 1440p+ at 60fps, especially for 3D gaming.

 

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

Screens still consume the most power on any device period. Laptop, phone or tablet. You name it, the screen consumes the most power.

No, about 15%. The CPU and GPU consume about 60%. Keeping the light on is cheap. Pushing pixels is what's expensive.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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3 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

I mean, tell that to the Nintendo NX (I have little doubt that in a few years flagship phone GPU's will be similar to the tegra gpu).

 

But I'm just pointing out it makes sense for Samsung to push it either way, and it isn't even a revolutionary increase (The S6 had 17% less memory bandwidth than the S7, this new chip has 18% more bandwidth than the S7).

 

Rudimentary native support for tessellation was actually a big deal from ARM's perspective last gpu Mali Midgard generation. 3D mobile gaming is coming.

That's a console, not a phone. Tessellation benefits 2D a lot too.

 

It's stupid to push 3D gaming on phones. A flagship phone without a 2-day battery life at this stage is just sad. Give me an iPhone 6-sized phone with barebones graphics processing power to handle up to 1080p 60 videos, and give me my battery life damn it.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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Don't hate on me but IOSs memory management is miles better then android with much less and slower memory compared to it's competitor. Also NVME as a standard would be much better. Scratch that a 6000mah minimum would be better

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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3 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

You waste power doing things that aren't even enjoyable on a phone. Seriously, battery life is more important than trying to push 1440p+ at 60fps, especially for 3D gaming.

If you need battery life don't game, it's that simple. 

A good game will give you an enjoyable experience. A very enjoyable experience. Mind you, I haven't played anything except pokemon go in months, and I stopped playing even that long time ago. 

The ability to google properly is a skill of its own. 

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12 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

That's a console, not a phone. Tessellation benefits 2D a lot too.

 

It's stupid to push 3D gaming on phones. A flagship phone without a 2-day battery life at this stage is just sad. Give me an iPhone 6-sized phone with barebones graphics processing power to handle up to 1080p 60 videos, and give me my battery life damn it.

So you'd rather SOC manufacturer include worse GPUs so they can have better battery life?

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

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2 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

Don't hate on me but IOSs memory management is miles better then android with much less and slower memory compared to it's competitor. Also NVME as a standard would be much better. Scratch that a 6000mah minimum would be better

I don't just want a larger battery. Give me the same size battery, better power management and/or more efficient components at the same performance specs compared to a last year flagship with a die shrink, while adding features like user replaceable battery, microsd card slot that doesn't involve taking the cover off, usb-c, and a max res of 1080 on a <5" screen. I'd like to just browse the web, listen to music (keep the damn headphone jack), and see images clearly, don't much care about the latest microtransaction riddled mobile games running at PC-like settings or streaming 4k on a handheld device.

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4 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

So you'd rather SOC manufacturer include worse GPUs so they can have better battery life?

If by worse you mean powerful enough to do all the work standard users (I) do but also using way less power than the overbuilt ones in flagship devices, then yes.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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12 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

If you need battery life don't game, it's that simple. 

A good game will give you an enjoyable experience. A very enjoyable experience. Mind you, I haven't played anything except pokemon go in months, and I stopped playing even that long time ago. 

That's not good enough. The overbuilt GPU still eats more power even when idling.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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1 minute ago, patrickjp93 said:

If by worse you mean powerful enough to do all the work standard users (I) do but also using way less power than the overbuilt ones in flagship devices, then yes.

k then. By they way, my phone's GPU is just like that and it struggles to play any serious games.......

 

Multiple days on a single charge.

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

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1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

k then. By they way, my phone's GPU is just like that and it struggles to play any serious games.......

 

Multiple days on a single charge.

And what phone would that be?

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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1 minute ago, patrickjp93 said:

That's not good enough. The overbuilt GPU still eats more power even when idling.

I'm pretty sure OS optimization, or better to say lack of, kills the battery much more than GPU. And then there is the screen which is the no.1 culprit. 

Android just got Vulkan support (for reasons unknown to me), so you can see where this is going. 

I'd like to see a test that supports your claim that at idling it kills it that much. It would be even be better if the test included complete gpu power usage. 

The ability to google properly is a skill of its own. 

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8 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

And what phone would that be?

You might not like the OS (as in you will probably hate it).

 

Lumia 640XL. If I try to run it down deliberately I will be left with 50-60% at the end of a day.  If I am more conservative then I can end up with 70% at the end of the day.

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

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Meanwhile im running 3x8GB DDR3 1333 CAS12

Ryzen 5 3600 stock | 2x16GB C13 3200MHz (AFR) | GTX 760 (Sold the VII)| ASUS Prime X570-P | 6TB WD Gold (128MB Cache, 2017)

Samsung 850 EVO 240 GB 

138 is a good number.

 

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2 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

I'm pretty sure OS optimization, or better to say lack of, kills the battery much more than GPU. And then there is the screen which is the no.1 culprit. 

Android just got Vulkan support (for reasons unknown to me), so you can see where this is going. 

I'd like to see a test that supports your claim that at idling it kills it that much. It would be even be better if the test included complete gpu power usage. 

I'm pretty sure you're wrong on that.

 

2 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

You might not like the OS (as in you will probably hate it).

 

Lumia 640XL. If I try to run it down deliberately I will be left with 50-60% at the end of a day.  If I am more conservative then I can end up with 70% at the end of the day.

I don't give a rat's rear end what the OS is as long as I can call, browse, watch YouTube, and swap SIM cards.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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7 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

3D games on phones are so pointless, 2D don't need the bandwidth, and it's not like you can do real VR on them without an eGPU...

In your opinion. They're clearly hugely popular, given their revenue. So, it makes sense that they'd push towards improving them.

Just because YOU don't like something, does not mean it's pointless. 

 

4 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

That's a console, not a phone. Tessellation benefits 2D a lot too.

 

It's stupid to push 3D gaming on phones. A flagship phone without a 2-day battery life at this stage is just sad. Give me an iPhone 6-sized phone with barebones graphics processing power to handle up to 1080p 60 videos, and give me my battery life damn it.

There are loads of midrange phones using the Snapdragon 6 series processors that have near flagship spec. They're usually much easier on the battery.

4 hours ago, meenmeen1103 said:

I don't just want a larger battery. Give me the same size battery, better power management and/or more efficient components at the same performance specs compared to a last year flagship with a die shrink, while adding features like user replaceable battery, microsd card slot that doesn't involve taking the cover off, usb-c, and a max res of 1080 on a <5" screen. I'd like to just browse the web, listen to music (keep the damn headphone jack), and see images clearly, don't much care about the latest microtransaction riddled mobile games running at PC-like settings or streaming 4k on a handheld device.

Generally adding a removable battery means you'll be putting the SIM and SD card in the back. Or you'll need a pin to remove the tray. 

Personally I'd rather remove the back.

The Japanese version of the V20 sounds like it'd have been perfect for you :P 

 

Bigger screens have other uses though. For example those with larger hands, bigger thumbs, who do work as they go, etc etc. 

 

I'm curious, would you actually find it that much of annoyance to use an adapter for music? It's not really much different than plugging in a set of headphones. 

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CPU: Intel i5 7600k Cooler: CryOrig H7 Motherboard: MSI Z270 M5

RAM: Crucial LPX 16GB DDR4 Storage: Intel S3510 800GB GPU: Nvidia GTX 980

PSU: Corsair CX650M Case: EVGA DG73

Monitor: LG 29WK500 Mouse: G.Skill MX780 Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

OG Gaming Rig - Gone

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CPU: Intel i5 4690k Cooler: Corsair H100i V2 Motherboard: MSI Z97i AC ITX

RAM: Crucial Ballistix 16GB DDR3 Storage: Kingston Fury 240GB GPU: Asus Strix GTX 970

PSU: Thermaltake TR2 Case: Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ITX

Monitor: Dell P2214H x2 Mouse: Logitech MX Master Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

 

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Posted
16 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-rolls-out-industrys-first-8gb-lpddr4-dram-package

 

A single 8GB LPDDR4 BGA package running at 4266mbps per pin (x64) has been developed by Samsung and will be deployed on next-gen mobile platforms. The package will be made using Samsung's 10nm process.

 

This is beyond stupid imho, but hey, who needs battery life, right?

I don't disagree with you that this is completely pointless, because it is, but I have to disagree with the battery life argument. It's using LPDDR4 (an even lower-power DDR4) which already has lower power consumption compared to traditional LPDDR3. Not only that, we have no idea what the timings look like. If it's anything like the soldered LPDDR3 on the Dell XPS 13:

 

feQUQbM.jpg

 

Then believe me, it's garbage performance for its power consumption. It also won't achieve it's full speed, as you are already aware. What I mean is, with completely garbage timings, anyone can achieve higher clock speeds on lower voltages. It just completely defeats the purpose. I'd rather see refined LPDDR4 running at a slower clock speed, but have much tighter timings at the same power consumption. Lower latency is far more important in this scenario. 

 

Until I see the timings of this LPDDR4 4266 package, I'll just assume its as bad as every other BGA LPDDRX kit we've seen before. 

 

EDIT: Before anyone calls me out on that Aida64 screenshot, that is from my brothers laptop. You also can't even tweak it with XTU. Those awful timings (and abysmal latency) are absolute, lol. 

My (incomplete) memory overclocking guide: 

 

Does memory speed impact gaming performance? Click here to find out!

On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

Sometimes, we all need a little inspiration.

 

 

 

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Posted
22 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Generally adding a removable battery means you'll be putting the SIM and SD card in the back. Or you'll need a pin to remove the tray. 

Personally I'd rather remove the back.

The Japanese version of the V20 sounds like it'd have been perfect for you :P 

 

Bigger screens have other uses though. For example those with larger hands, bigger thumbs, who do work as they go, etc etc. 

 

I'm curious, would you actually find it that much of annoyance to use an adapter for music? It's not really much different than plugging in a set of headphones. 

I prefer the push-to-eject micro sd method, though old, clunky and slightly more susceptible to damage, its convenience is appealing enough to me to still want it despite losing water resistance and having a slightly thicker device. I like the ~4.7" phones, but they feel awkward in the hand when they are also wafer thin. An adapter is a minor annoyance but would prefer not adding another point of failure (binding, risking the same port used for audio and charging getting physically damaged and disabling both features) and generally the possibility of misplacing it. These are just my wants/needs and would like manufacturers to consider such device. They can play with overkill (to me) power hungry hardware to advance the tech but if they could at the same time offer these features in a bracket between flagship and budget phones, focused on reducing power consumption for longer battery life without resorting to stuffing more lithium in it, I'd be overall happier.

CPU: AMD Sempron 2400+ / MOBO: Abit NF7-S2G / GPU: WinFast A180BT 64MB / RAM: Mushkin DDR333 256MBx2 / HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM 120GB

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Posted

Makes perfect sense to me. LPDDR4 is extremely low power ram and at a 10nm node it'll probably be close to an order of magnitude more efficient than than the 16nm or 20nm LPDDR3 ram we see in smartphones today. Mobile GPUs will really shine with some proper memory bandwidth. 

Corsair 600T | Intel Core i7-4770K @ 4.5GHz | Samsung SSD Evo 970 1TB | MS Windows 10 | Samsung CF791 34" | 16GB 1600 MHz Kingston DDR3 HyperX | ASUS Formula VI | Corsair H110  | Corsair AX1200i | ASUS Strix Vega 56 8GB | Internet http://beta.speedtest.net/result/4365368180

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Posted
5 hours ago, MageTank said:

EDIT: Before anyone calls me out on that Aida64 screenshot, that is from my brothers laptop. You also can't even tweak it with XTU. Those awful timings (and abysmal latency) are absolute, lol. 

Wow those awful timings. Even with them as such, it destroys the memory in my N550

 

yoTSbuL.png

The ability to google properly is a skill of its own. 

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Posted
4 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

Wow those awful timings. Even with them as such, it destroys the memory in my N550

 

 

Is your ram soldered on? If not, adding another stick would double your max theoretical bandwidth. The ram in the XPS 13 is completely soldered on, and cannot be upgraded. 

My (incomplete) memory overclocking guide: 

 

Does memory speed impact gaming performance? Click here to find out!

On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

Sometimes, we all need a little inspiration.

 

 

 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Is your ram soldered on? If not, adding another stick would double your max theoretical bandwidth. The ram in the XPS 13 is completely soldered on, and cannot be upgraded. 

According to some disassembly guides it isn't. This is the first laptop I haven't opened yet. According to Speccy, I've got only in it 1 stick out of 4 possible (even though I only see 2 slots). I don't think I'll upgrade, if possible I'm planning on selling it next year.

The ability to google properly is a skill of its own. 

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1 minute ago, Bouzoo said:

According to some disassembly guides it isn't. This is the first laptop I haven't opened yet. According to Speccy, I've got only in it 1 stick out of 4 possible. I don't think I'll upgrade, if possible I'm planning on selling it next year.

From what I can see, that thing has a really nice CPU in it. Would throw a 2133 DDR3L Dual Channel kit in that thing (and an SSD if it doesn't already have one) and enjoy it as a decent mobile machine. 

My (incomplete) memory overclocking guide: 

 

Does memory speed impact gaming performance? Click here to find out!

On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

Sometimes, we all need a little inspiration.

 

 

 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, MageTank said:

From what I can see, that thing has a really nice CPU in it. Would throw a 2133 DDR3L Dual Channel kit in that thing (and an SSD if it doesn't already have one) and enjoy it as a decent mobile machine. 

According to Ark it supports 1333/1600? 

It has a 7200 rpm 1TB SGHT HDD, and sadly I need huge space more than I need it to be that fast. 

The ability to google properly is a skill of its own. 

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