Microsoft Kills N64 emulator for Xbox One

[manikyath]

i should probably add that emlators are still VERY grey zone buisiness, and i'd dare guarantee you that MS removed it to avoid a lawsuit with nintendo because if that app got big, it WOULD happen.

[Master Disaster]

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

You said it yourself: the games have the copyright. If you own the game and the console you're entitled to use emulators and dump your ROM games (and yes in some jurisdictions even download ROM copies) and do as you please. 

 

As long as you don't sell the emulator along with some ROMs or give people direct access to them it's actually not illegal. Just because nobody can afford to take Nintendo to court and win doesn't means Nintendo is in the right: they're completely ignoring fair use exceptions.

In most cases surrounding Nintendo and fair use I'd 100% agree with you but this is slightly different. 

 

Nintendo are allowed to stop users from using ROMS because they still actively sell the games on the 3DS & Wii U. This makes the law slightly stronger and allows them to put tighter restrictions in place on the usage of ROMS, obviously it only applies to games they sell though. 

 

Also I'm calling it right now, the next Nintendo dmca claim will be against this... 

 

[dalekphalm]

15 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

You said it yourself: the games have the copyright. If you own the game and the console you're entitled to use emulators and dump your ROM games (and yes in some jurisdictions even download ROM copies) and do as you please. 

 

As long as you don't sell the emulator along with some ROMs or give people direct access to them it's actually not illegal. Just because nobody can afford to take Nintendo to court and win doesn't means Nintendo is in the right: they're completely ignoring fair use exceptions.

Whether it's right or wrong is immaterial at this point.

 

Microsoft is doing this no doubt because they want to avoid an unnecessary and costly lawsuit from Nintendo. Even if Microsoft won, it might cost them more then they'd make in sales from this emulator app.

 

And yes, while the emulator itself doesn't break any IP, it can basically only be used to play ROM's, which themselves are at best, a legal grey area.

 

Unlike Torrents, where you can legally download a Linux Distro, for example, an Emulator is really only good for playing roms. Until using emulators to play old games is 100% legal, you'll probably find companies like Microsoft avoid it.

 

Now, if the App was free? Microsoft would probably ignore it. But the fact that they're taking a cut of that money is really what puts them in a risky spot.

[Master Disaster]

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Whether it's right or wrong is immaterial at this point.

 

Microsoft is doing this no doubt because they want to avoid an unnecessary and costly lawsuit from Nintendo. Even if Microsoft won, it might cost them more then they'd make in sales from this emulator app.

 

And yes, while the emulator itself doesn't break any IP, it can basically only be used to play ROM's, which themselves are at best, a legal grey area.

 

Unlike Torrents, where you can legally download a Linux Distro, for example, an Emulator is really only good for playing roms. Until using emulators to play old games is 100% legal, you'll probably find companies like Microsoft avoid it.

 

Now, if the App was free? Microsoft would probably ignore it. But the fact that they're taking a cut of that money is really what puts them in a risky spot.

Homebrew is a thing though? 

 

Also Microsoft didn't make the emulator so Nintendo wouldn't go after them, they'd have to categorically prove that Microsoft were facilitating the use of ROMS illegally which would be impossible. 

 

Nintendo would go after the developer if they were going to but considering there's already 3 or 4 N64 emulators in existence which Nintendo have ignored I do find it odd that MS have pulled it. I wonder if there's been a friendly call from Nintendo to Microsoft that said something like "we don't like this and would really like it to be pulled please". 

 

Of course I fully understand Microsofts decision, its better to avoid the situation than try and fight it after the fact.

[manikyath]

7 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Whether it's right or wrong is immaterial at this point.

 

Microsoft is doing this no doubt because they want to avoid an unnecessary and costly lawsuit from Nintendo. Even if Microsoft won, it might cost them more then they'd make in sales from this emulator app.

 

And yes, while the emulator itself doesn't break any IP, it can basically only be used to play ROM's, which themselves are at best, a legal grey area.

 

Unlike Torrents, where you can legally download a Linux Distro, for example, an Emulator is really only good for playing roms. Until using emulators to play old games is 100% legal, you'll probably find companies like Microsoft avoid it.

 

Now, if the App was free? Microsoft would probably ignore it. But the fact that they're taking a cut of that money is really what puts them in a risky spot.

the biggest issue microsoft, apple, google, and any other company that serves an app store of sorts faces in cases like this is that the great majority of these apps indirectly encourage piracy, more specificly the piracy of the platform of another company.

 

which... i do not need to tell you how important it is for these companies to -at least officially- put the vice down on this one.

[LAwLz]

8 hours ago, Sauron said:

It's funny how everyone takes the piss out of the windows store but doesn't say a thing about apple doing essentially the same thing

What planet do you live on? Apple devices being walled gardens and locked down is like the number one argument people shout as soon as someone even looks at an Apple device.

[PocketNerd]

1 hour ago, Misanthrope said:

For shit's and giggles: can someone look on the Windows 10 store on a computer and see if the emulator (or any other) is there? Because I can't find a reason why it would be not allowed on the xbone yet allowed on win10 pcs....

It's there, along with 50 other emulators (did a search on "emulator")

According to the comments it's absolute shit though.

[Coaxialgamer]

Meh .Won't be surprised if tons of emulators will come to the inevitable xbone homebrew scene , just like on every other console ever . 

[Misanthrope]

49 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

In most cases surrounding Nintendo and fair use I'd 100% agree with you but this is slightly different. 

 

Nintendo are allowed to stop users from using ROMS because they still actively sell the games on the 3DS & Wii U.

Not all of them henceforth you can't get rid of the emulator altogether because of a few games still being pushed by Nintendo. 

[Misanthrope]

25 minutes ago, PocketNerd said:

It's there, along with 50 other emulators (did a search on "emulator")

According to the comments it's absolute shit though.

Well then my question seems to be valid: Whats the reason for this to be illegal on the xbone and legal or overlooked on Windows 10 PCs? 

 

This means it isn't about copyright concerns, it's about Microsoft not wanting to "dilute" their platform with a competitor's products on them. You can all drop the "it's illegal" angle cause 1) It's not, there's a fair use provision for emulator usage and 2) It's not even the case Microsoft clearly doesn't cares about a Nintendo Lawsuit since they could easily go after Windows 10 anyway.

[Misanthrope]

52 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Whether it's right or wrong is immaterial at this point.

 

Microsoft is doing this no doubt because they want to avoid an unnecessary and costly lawsuit from Nintendo.

Above post shows this his highly unlikely: No reason why Nintendo couldn't sue just as easily for the same type of emulators sold on the Windows 10 store. In fact it's been like 10 years since they could go for Google since emulators have been readily available on Play store for years.

[Nowak]

1 hour ago, Minibois said:

Just because they are older, doesn't mean they are shit. That is why Rare released 'Rare Replay' on the Xbox One, which has some remade N64 games on it.

I've seen a few N64 Rare Replay games. Textures aren't upgraded, they're still low-res, but the resolution seems much higher and N64 controller button prompts are replaced by Xbox One controller button prompts (except for those in voice-overs, e.g. Conker's Bad Fur Day, although the VOs in CBFD still refer to N64 buttons like the Z button and Start button). Other than apparently increased resolution and different button prompts, the N64 games are untouched.

[biggiebody]

55 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Homebrew is a thing though? 

 

Also Microsoft didn't make the emulator so Nintendo wouldn't go after them, they'd have to categorically prove that Microsoft were facilitating the use of ROMS illegally which would be impossible. 

 

Nintendo would go after the developer if they were going to but considering there's already 3 or 4 N64 emulators in existence which Nintendo have ignored I do find it odd that MS have pulled it. I wonder if there's been a friendly call from Nintendo to Microsoft that said something like "we don't like this and would really like it to be pulled please". 

 

Of course I fully understand Microsofts decision, its better to avoid the situation than try and fight it after the fact.

They could go after Microsoft for having it in their store, and since in the store Microsoft is technically making money off it

[Master Disaster]

Just now, biggiebody said:

They could go after Microsoft for having it in their store, and since in the store Microsoft is technically making money off it

They're allowed to make money of it,  as long as it has no proprietary code in it it's not illegal and can be legally sold. It's only using the roms which is "illegal". 

 

Google have been selling emulators for years. 

[wolfmcbeard]

I'm not surprised by this, emulators aren’t inherently illegal, neither is the usage of ROM's (depending on where you live) what makes it illegal is that it is software that runs Nintendo 64 (Nintindo console) ROM's on an Xbox One (not a Nintendo console).
Because it's suddenly available on the market place of an unauthorised piece of hardware, Nintendo would have a right to pursue Microsoft in a court with a 90% chance of winning the case, not to mention most ROM's are downloaded instead of someone copying the file from the cart directly, thats why sites like coolrom and emuparidise always seem to be in the shit with Nintendo.

[Master Disaster]

3 minutes ago, Matt Hawkins said:

I'm not surprised by this, emulators aren’t inherently illegal, neither is the usage of ROM's (depending on where you live) what makes it illegal is that it is software that runs Nintendo 64 (Nintindo console) ROM's on an Xbox One (not a Nintendo console).
Because it's suddenly available on the market place of an unauthorised piece of hardware, Nintendo would have a right to pursue Microsoft in a court with a 90% chance of winning the case, not to mention most ROM's are downloaded instead of someone copying the file from the cart directly, thats why sites like coolrom and emuparidise always seem to be in the shit with Nintendo.

No they wouldn't, as long as the emulator contains no Nintendo code it's not illegal at all under any circumstances. 

 

Using the roms is a grey area. 

 

Btw 90% of Internet statistics are made up

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Sauron said:

It's funny how everyone takes the piss out of the windows store but doesn't say a thing about apple doing essentially the same thing

Well Apple actively filters stuff; it just takes a DMCA claim for a reskin of flappy bird to potentially be taken down.

[ZimFreak]

On 9/29/2016 at 0:11 AM, dexxterlab97 said:

Why would you buy Xbox One to play Ninetendo 64 games?

For the same reason I emulate PS1 and NES games on my $1,000 gaming PC.

[Mira Yurizaki]

23 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

You said it yourself: the games have the copyright. If you own the game and the console you're entitled to use emulators and dump your ROM games (and yes in some jurisdictions even download ROM copies) and do as you please.

It's actually still illegal to dump ROMs in the US. There's some court case about that (I forget the case, I think it was with Atari) and as far as I know, it wasn't overturned.

[Misanthrope]

36 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

It's actually still illegal to dump ROMs in the US. There's some court case about that (I forget the case, I think it was with Atari) and as far as I know, it wasn't overturned.

It's why I said some jurisdictions.

[Puddleuk]

Sorry to step in but I think the debate regarding emulators and copyright blah blah blah is not the actual reason the emulator was removed. It was removed because the emulators advertised screenshots showed Super Mario 64 running on the emulator. The developer cannot use that screenshot for a paid product unless they have permission from Nintendo..... They did not. That is why it was removed from the store.

 

Edit: To add to that you can see the screenshots still active on the Windows 10 version of the store. https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/p/win64e10/9nblggh4r9nw# it was likely not removed from Windows since its not a super closed platform. However the Xbox One is, so having an app using copyrighted material without permission (and charging for it) would be a breach of the stores policy.

[Mira Yurizaki]

5 minutes ago, Puddleuk said:

Sorry to step in but I think the debate regarding emulators and copyright blah blah blah is not the actual reason the emulator was removed. It was removed because the emulators advertised screenshots showed Super Mario 64 running on the emulator. The developer cannot use that screenshot for a paid product unless they have permission from Nintendo..... They did not. That is why it was removed from the store.

Either way Microsoft would've probably removed it anyway because they don't want a kerfuffle with Nintendo about emulators being on their system.

[Zodiark1593]

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 0:12 PM, Misanthrope said:

Well then my question seems to be valid: Whats the reason for this to be illegal on the xbone and legal or overlooked on Windows 10 PCs? 

 

This means it isn't about copyright concerns, it's about Microsoft not wanting to "dilute" their platform with a competitor's products on them. You can all drop the "it's illegal" angle cause 1) It's not, there's a fair use provision for emulator usage and 2) It's not even the case Microsoft clearly doesn't cares about a Nintendo Lawsuit since they could easily go after Windows 10 anyway.

Like Apple, the emulator could be removed on the grounds that it allows the execution of unsigned code. 

[Misanthrope]

29 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Like Apple, the emulator could be removed on the grounds that it allows the execution of unsigned code. 

That's inmaterial to what I am asking: Why are the grounds there for the xbone but not there for the Windows 10 store for pcs? Both allow the execution of said unsigned code yet only one is being targeted by this removal.

[Trik'Stari]

Hard to blame them considering how retarded and sue happy Nintendo is.