Skylake or better GPU

[TheKDub]

Just now, don_svetlio said:

Thing is - we are already seeing that. Look at the releases - almost every AAA game from 2015/2016 supports 8 threads and even RECOMMENDS and i7 3770 or FX 8350.  That is due to the 8-core consoles and the way ports work.

TL:DR - times are changing and just like we went from dual-cores to quad-cores, now we have to go from quad-cores to quad-cores with HT.

They're recommending the FX-8350 from AMD because it's basically their best CPU that they have available. (With the possible exception of some of their recent or upcoming processors)

[don_svetlio]

Just now, TheKDub said:

They're recommending the FX-8350 from AMD because it's basically their best CPU that they have available. (With the possible exception of some of their recent or upcoming processors)

But why not recommend an i5 2500? 8350's IPC is lower than Sandy yet they feel the need to recommend an Ivy i7. Reason? Game uses 8 cores/threads

[TristanKing]

4 minutes ago, don_svetlio said:

You don't read a lot of news posts, do you? Nvidia announced Volta for 2017

You don't read those news posts properly do you? There wont be any consumer Volta cards out until 2018. It's solely super computers. https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/4uhvpa/nvidia_accelerates_volta_to_may_2017/

[Dackzy]

Just now, TheKDub said:

They're recommending the FX-8350 from AMD because it's basically their best CPU that they have available. (With the possible exception of some of their recent or upcoming processors)

no it is not. Did you just forget about the FX 9590? Sure it is just 8350 with a higher clock, but game companies does not expect you to OC your CPU, because not everyone does that and just think about the shit strom they would get if they did. Every person running the recommended CPU would get mad at them

[CptLameJokes]

18 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

yes if you OC a CPU and you gain FPS in a game then there is a bottleneck. The thing with OCing is that you shorten the lifespand of the part and the heat goes up, further more not every CPU can OC well. I have build a i7 6700k system for a client and I used 4 days trying to get that CPU to a stable OC and that stable OC was just and I mean just above boost.

4

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, don_svetlio said:

Exactly - if the was no bottleneck, OCing the CPU wouldn't change anything. And that's on a Titan X - 1080 is a good 35% faster meaning that you'd need more CPU horsepower to feed the GPU

 

*Le me who feel out of place...

 

Does that mean that an i7 could be bottlenecking? Since it's the best (subjectively) CPU we got, we somehow have no way to find out

Could you guys recommend me some reliable channels or sites on this subject so I can do my research on this subject? It would be very helpful to me.

[TheKDub]

Just now, Dackzy said:

no it is not. Did you just forget about the FX 9590? Sure it is just 8350 with a higher clock, but game companies does not expect you to OC your CPU, because not everyone does that and just think about the shit strom they would get if they did. Every person running the recommended CPU would get mad at them

 

The FX-9590 is a joke essentially, if you're looking for something to heat your house with, sure, go ahead and get it.

[don_svetlio]

Just now, CptLameJokes said:

 

*Le me who feel out of place...

 

Does that mean that an i7 could be bottlenecking? Since it's the best (subjectively) CPU we got, we somehow have no way to find out

Could you guys recommend me some reliable channels or sites on this subject so I can do my research on this subject? It would be very helpful to me.

Digital Foundry and OC3D on youtube. Look for their more recent videos (2016)

[Dackzy]

Just now, CptLameJokes said:

 

*Le me who feel out of place...

 

Does that mean that an i7 could be bottlenecking? Since it's the best (subjectively) CPU we got, we somehow have no way to find out

Could you guys recommend me some reliable channels or sites on this subject so I can do my research on this subject? It would be very helpful to me.

digital foundry and pcper makes a lof of good video, just look up benchmarks and yes a i7 can be bottlenecking. This is over DX12 and AMD made this, so take it with a grain of salt. It shows that 6 cores (real cores) is the sweetspot 

[Dackzy]

3 minutes ago, TheKDub said:

 

The FX-9590 is a joke essentially, if you're looking for something to heat your house with, sure, go ahead and get it.

it is still higher than the 8350, so stop that BS about them recommending the 8350 because it is the best AMD has, because that it NOT true.

[TristanKing]

i5 that may bottleneck 1080 in some games, then upgrade to Cannon Lake for $2-300 in 2017   >   1070 that will bottleneck i7, and upgrade to a 1080 in 2017 for $600

[GArmyHD]

1 hour ago, TristanKing said:

Bad combo my ass.

 

The i5 + 1080 will give better performance than an i7 + 1070 in the large majority of games, and then by upgrading his CPU to Cannon Lake next year he'd get a faster CPU than an i7 6700k, and a MUCH better overall performance than an i7 and 1070.

 

So he'd be getting the best performance now AND in the future by going i5 + 1080.

 

You are actually delusional. In what fantasy world do you live in that the i5 is enough for anything above 480/1060.

[TristanKing]

32 minutes ago, GArmyHD said:

You are actually delusional. In what fantasy world do you live in that the i5 is enough for anything above 480/1060.

It's enough when the alternative is getting a slower graphics card and thus slower over all performance. Clearly you're the delusional one if you think that no matter what i5's are "not enough" for anything above an RX 480/1060, even when the plan is to upgrade to a newer i7 afterwards.

 

The decision is "an i5 that may bottleneck a GTX 1080 in some odd games, then upgrade to Cannon Lake for $2-300 in 2017   VS   1070 that will bottleneck an i7, and upgrade to a 1080 in 2017 for $600".

 

Your twisted "i5's are for peasants" philosophy doesn't change that the first option is the one that will give you more performance now and in the future, is over all cheaper, and is the most future proof because Cannon Lake will last you far longer than a then almost 3 year old i7 6700k.

 

Seriously, I can't believe so many people here spread such BS misinformation. An i5 4690k, especially when overclocked, is great for GTX 1080 gaming. On the odd, very CPU intensive game, it will have some bottleneck. But god damn it's still going to crush pretty much every game and come within 10fps of a system with an i7 6700k in the large majority of games.

[GArmyHD]

6 minutes ago, TristanKing said:

Your twisted "i5's are for peasants" philosophy

Didn't say that. I'm getting an i5 RX 480 combo later this year or next year.

 

8 minutes ago, TristanKing said:

then upgrade to Cannon Lake

What if OP doesn't want to/have the budget to upgrade next year.

[TristanKing]

Just now, GArmyHD said:

Didn't say that. I'm getting an i5 RX 480 combo later this year or next year.

 

What if OP doesn't want to/have the budget to upgrade next year.

Even if he doesn't have the budget to upgrade next year, (Which I doubt, come on even a 15 year old can earn $2-300 in an entire year, Linus even made videos on it. Or just use their birthday money) then an i5 4690k paired with a GTX 1080 will still out perform an i7 6700k and GTX 1070 until he finally does have the cash.

[GArmyHD]

1 minute ago, TristanKing said:

come on even a 15 year old can earn $2-300 in an entire year

OP may, but he may not want to spend even that much. Is that not acceptable? Just because you have the money, does that mean you have to upgrade?

3 minutes ago, TristanKing said:

then an i5 4690k paired with a GTX 1080 will still out perform an i7 6700k and GTX 1070 until he finally does have the cash.

@Dackzy and @don_svetlio have posted graphs and videos that suggest otherwise.

[TristanKing]

1 minute ago, GArmyHD said:

OP may, but he may not want to spend even that much. Is that not acceptable? Just because you have the money, does that mean you have to upgrade?

@Dackzy and @don_svetlio have posted graphs and videos that suggest otherwise.

The videos and graphs they posted are absolute bogus crap. Just look in the comment sections and see how much the youtuber is being destroyed.

[TristanKing]

OP just get the damn i5 + 1080 combo. Ask anywhere else on the internet, you're far better off with it. It'll perform like a beast, and you'll be able to upgrade your CPU anytime you want, late 2017 will be a great time to upgrade because of Cannon Lake which will be a big jump in performance.

 

I don't know why so many people on LTTF are so anti what every other PC enthusiast already agrees on.

 

Been asked plenty of times on Tom's hardware.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3057778/4690k-bottleneck-gtx-1070.html

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3057075/4690k-bottleneck-gtx-1080-released.html

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3066242/4690-planning-upgrade-gtx-1080-released-cpu-bottleneck.html

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3054876/4690-bottleneck-gtx-1080-sli-rig-ultra-max-gaming.html

[Prysin]

10 hours ago, TheKDub said:

 

It's only beneficial for games which can take advantage of more than 4 threads.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

those slides hold no merit as your comparisons are not apples to apples. Its apples to oranges to pears. Unless you have real slides with relevant information in them, please refrain from posting.

[Prysin]

7 hours ago, TristanKing said:

The videos and graphs they posted are absolute bogus crap. Just look in the comment sections and see how much the youtuber is being destroyed.

destroyed? The comments have no real counter evidence other then "this link doesnt show your results". And yes, it doesnt. But it also doesnt show the technical information needed to tell how close to a bottleneck you are.

[Dackzy]

8 hours ago, TristanKing said:

The videos and graphs they posted are absolute bogus crap. Just look in the comment sections and see how much the youtuber is being destroyed.

oh just ssshhh, you try to be this know all, but you fail hard, really hard. My references are from digital foundry, where they show how close a i5 6600k is to 100% with a 1060 with Vsync on, this means that the CPU numbers will go up if you remove Vsync. You also outright ignore the fact that the FPS is more stable with a i7, even from the YouTube video screenshots you have taken from, you would see that the FPS from a i7 is more stable, if you even care to look up there, but I have a feeling that you don't care. Also if you use YouTube comments as evidence, then you are seriously not very clever 99.999999% of YouTube comments know jack shit about what they talk about and if that is your source of information, well then it doesn't look good. As prysin already said your slides does not hold any merit.

[TristanKing]

4 hours ago, Dackzy said:

oh just ssshhh, you try to be this know all, but you fail hard, really hard. My references are from digital foundry, where they show how close a i5 6600k is to 100% with a 1060 with Vsync on, this means that the CPU numbers will go up if you remove Vsync. You also outright ignore the fact that the FPS is more stable with a i7, even from the YouTube video screenshots you have taken from, you would see that the FPS from a i7 is more stable, if you even care to look up there, but I have a feeling that you don't care. Also if you use YouTube comments as evidence, then you are seriously not very clever 99.999999% of YouTube comments know jack shit about what they talk about and if that is your source of information, well then it doesn't look good. As prysin already said your slides does not hold any merit.

It's not about whether an i7 makes the fps more stable. No one here is arguing that an i7 wouldn't be better than the i5. It's about whether an i5 4690k and GTX 1080 give more performance than an i7 6700k and 1070, and they do. Thus it's best to get that combo, and then upgrade to a new CPU when he can, to alleviate any bottleneck he may have in games (because plenty of new lines of CPUs are coming out soon too. Like Kaby Lake/Zen and Cannon Lake next year).

[Dackzy]

5 minutes ago, TristanKing said:

It's not about whether an i7 makes the fps more stable. No one here is arguing that an i7 wouldn't be better than the i5. It's about whether an i5 4690k and GTX 1080 give more performance than an i7 6700k and 1070, and they do. Thus it's best to get that combo, and then upgrade to a new CPU when he can, to alleviate any bottleneck he may have in games (because plenty of new lines of CPUs are coming out soon too. Like Kaby Lake/Zen and Cannon Lake next year).

well stable FPS= better experiance. Also when you look at those benchmarks, you should take how stable the FPS is into account. So how stable the FPS is a huge part of this.

 

Also that would only make sense if he can upgrade the CPU soon, if he cannot upgrade the CPU fairly soon (like when zen or kaby comes out) then the i7 makes for a much better base for the future GPU upgrades.

 

Also the i7 is 90€ more than the i5 and the mobo is 20€ more and the ram is 60€, so that is 170€ more for DDR4 and a much better CPU. It is fairly hard to sell used CPUs and motherboards and you don't get that much for them used, so he would end up using more money if he takes the i5 and upgrades to a i7 in the future.

 

He also said that he has the money, but he doesn't want to spend more than €1k, this points in the direction that he doesn't want to upgrade the CPU in the furture and if he is like most people then he is going to keep that system for about 4 years and all of those videos are with "older" games and with those we see that a i5 +1070= bottleneck in some and that even with a 1060 the i5 is pushed hard.

 

We all know that if a CPU is pushed to the max in games then you often get stuttering, that is not very nice at all. So with next gen games and really just newer AAA titles the problem will only become bigger. 

 

We also don't know what res OP is playing at, if he plays at 1080p then get the i7 and 1070, if he plays at 1440p then it is a bit of a mixed bag, but if he plays at 4k then the i5 should not bottleneck, because the GPU load will be much bigger and it would not be able to push as many FPS as it would at 1080p We often see that if you have a 8-10fps bottleneck at 1080p then it is gone at 4k, but still about 3-4 FPS at 1440p

 

You see this is not about finding what would give the best average FPS, this is about finding what would give the best experiance in the longer run and you don't get a very good experiance if you get stuttering or if the FPS goes up and down a lot all the time.

 

 

[TristanKing]

11 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

well stable FPS= better experiance. Also when you look at those benchmarks, you should take how stable the FPS is into account. So how stable the FPS is a huge part of this.

 

Also that would only make sense if he can upgrade the CPU soon, if he cannot upgrade the CPU fairly soon (like when zen or kaby comes out) then the i7 makes for a much better base for the future GPU upgrades.

 

Also the i7 is 90€ more than the i5 and the mobo is 20€ more and the ram is 60€, so that is 170€ more for DDR4 and a much better CPU. It is fairly hard to sell used CPUs and motherboards and you don't get that much for them used, so he would end up using more money if he takes the i5 and upgrades to a i7 in the future.

 

He also said that he has the money, but he doesn't want to spend more than €1k, this points in the direction that he doesn't want to upgrade the CPU in the furture and if he is like most people then he is going to keep that system for about 4 years and all of those videos are with "older" games and with those we see that a i5 +1070= bottleneck in some and that even with a 1060 the i5 is pushed hard.

 

We all know that if a CPU is pushed to the max in games then you often get stuttering, that is not very nice at all. So with next gen games and really just newer AAA titles the problem will only become bigger. 

 

We also don't know what res OP is playing at, if he plays at 1080p then get the i7 and 1070, if he plays at 1440p then it is a bit of a mixed bag, but if he plays at 4k then the i5 should not bottleneck, because the GPU load will be much bigger and it would not be able to push as many FPS as it would at 1080p We often see that if you have a 8-10fps bottleneck at 1080p then it is gone at 4k, but still about 3-4 FPS at 1440p

 

You see this is not about finding what would give the best average FPS, this is about finding what would give the best experiance in the longer run and you don't get a very good experiance if you get stuttering or if the FPS goes up and down a lot all the time.

 

 

"this is about finding what would give the best experiance in the longer run and you don't get a very good experiance if you get stuttering or if the FPS goes up and down a lot all the time." Then he'll be great with an i5 4690k and GTX 1080 because it wont stutter, and will only knock off 10fps at most in the vast majority of games, and it will undoubtedly give him higher than 60fps in all games max settings 1080p, "and if he plays at 4k then the i5 should not bottleneck, because the GPU load will be much bigger".

 

Then late 2017 he can upgrade to a Cannon Lake CPU if he wants to, which will get rid of any bottleneck on the GPU, is cheaper than an upgrade to a GTX 1080 (even if you don't sell the i5 - He could even use it in a HTPC or for Steam game streaming like I did with my old i5 4460) and will last him far longer than an ancient 3 year old i7 6700k, ESPECIALLY if it's an 8 core "replacement" for the i7 6700k. <-- That's a big one.

[Dackzy]

8 minutes ago, TristanKing said:

"this is about finding what would give the best experiance in the longer run and you don't get a very good experiance if you get stuttering or if the FPS goes up and down a lot all the time." Then he'll be great with an i5 4690k and GTX 1080 because it wont stutter, and will only knock off 10fps at most in the vast majority of games, and it will undoubtedly give him higher than 60fps in all games max settings 1080p, "and if he plays at 4k then the i5 should not bottleneck, because the GPU load will be much bigger".

 

Then late 2017 he can upgrade to a Cannon Lake CPU if he wants to, which will get rid of any bottleneck on the GPU, is cheaper than an upgrade to a GTX 1080 (even if you don't sell the i5 - He could even use it in a HTPC or for Steam game streaming like I did with my old i5 4460) and will last him far longer than an ancient 3 year old i7 6700k, ESPECIALLY if it's an 8 core "replacement" for the i7 6700k. <-- That's a big one.

You do know that when you push a CPU hard in games you might get stuttering right?

[TristanKing]

2 hours ago, Dackzy said:

You do know that when you push a CPU hard in games you might get stuttering right?

In the odd heavily CPU demanding game with a crap CPU, sure. But the i5 4690k is more than capable of handling every game available without stuttering. It'll bottleneck a GTX 1080 5-10fps on average compared to an i7 6700k, but it wont stutter.