RX 480 - DownloadMoreRAM.com

[Yamoto42]

1 minute ago, App4that said:

You're talking about middlemen and retailers, completely different topic.

And what exactly is different?  Perhaps I like to fancy myself a retailer?  It is a private transaction between two entities, the only difference is that you you want there to be one.

[App4that]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

How about the 4790k you own? The only difference between it and a 4790 is that one is clocked higher and has an unlocked multiplier. Both chips are identical, one just costs more. 

Actually no, they are different. Now the 6600 and 6600k you have a point. And why I didn't go Skylake.

[App4that]

2 minutes ago, Yamoto42 said:

And what exactly is different?  Perhaps I like to fancy myself a retailer?  It is a private transaction between two entities, the only difference is that you you want there to be one.

If I buy a Rx 480 from Fry's and sell it to you used, then I am responsible for the morality of the contract between us. Fry's is under contract on pricing, so the responsibility falls on them and the entity in which they are contracted with. You think you just call up AMD and buy a container of product? That's cute  

[DXMember]

27 minutes ago, App4that said:

If I charge you 10 dollars for 8 apples, and DX 8 dollars for 8 apples. That is acceptable to you? I have not done anything immoral? Given that both sets of apples are the same.

you did something immoral there actually...

 

the right way to do it would be like this:

 

You have packed bags of apples of 8

1) @djdwosk97 comes up and asks if he can buy a bag - you tell him $10, he buys it

2) @DXMember comes up and asks if he can buy a bag - you tell him $10 - he tells you he doesn't have that much money, so maybe you can offer less apples for $8 ??

at this point you have to options:

a) tell him to go look for apples somewhere else - you lose a potential customer.. like not even a potential, you lose a real customer that's just right there in front of you, you also lose a potential target audience - tens of people like that, that might come up to you in the future

b) give that bag for $8 - you gain that one sale but then @DXMember tells @djdwosk97 that he got a bag of 8 apples for less, and then you get a backfire from both @djdwosk97 and some anti-trust class action law suit for making selective discounts and unfair competition

c) give that bag for $8 but to make it fair, chuck a knife trough two of the apples in the bag (or maybe you have a bag where two of the apples are rotten and you'd have to throw out the bag otherwise) and say - look I've got only bags of 8, but in this bag two of the apples are bad so you can't eat them, so it has a discount and you can have it for less - that's a win/win situation, you just created a new product with no additional cost and the customer got his product for the price he was OK with

 

yes the examples are a bit crude, but I hope you get the general idea... that's basically what everyone has been doing for like ever in the computer hardware, it is a win/win for everyone

[Yamoto42]

4 minutes ago, App4that said:

If I buy a Rx 480 from Fry's and sell it to you used, then I am responsible for the morality of the contract between us. Fry's is under contract on pricing, so the responsibility falls on them and the entity in which they are contracted with. You think you just call up AMD and buy a container of product? That's cute  

Interesting...so in that case you think AMD is perfectly fine controlling how, what, and under what conditions something is being sold...

 

Here I thought that was supposed to be immoral for them to do what they want about selling THEIR product.

But I see that you will make exceptions when you want them to be there...

[Kryptyx]

In my opinion, you shouldn't have to pay more to access hardware you already have. I can understand paying a premium for factory OC chips because they are usually binned higher, meaning they will likely perform better.

[DXMember]

8 minutes ago, App4that said:

Actually no, they are different. Now the 6600 and 6600k you have a point. And why I didn't go Skylake.

how exactly is 4790K and 4790 different in a way that 6600 and 6600K aren't?

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, DXMember said:

how exactly is 4790K and 4790 different in a way that 6600 and 6600K aren't?

The 4790 has some business features that a 4790k does not (trusted execution bit for example). But again, the two are identical with the only difference being in firmware.  

 

Edit: nevermind, I didn't realize the same distinction exists between a 6600k and a 6600. Yeah, I don't know. 

[App4that]

3 minutes ago, DXMember said:

2 minutes ago, Yamoto42 said:

Interesting...so in that case you think AMD is perfectly fine controlling how, what, and under what conditions something is being sold...

 

Here I thought that was supposed to be immoral for them to do what they want about selling THEIR product.

you did something immoral there actually...

 

the right way to do it would be like this:

 

You have packed bags of apples of 8

1) @djdwosk97 comes up and asks if he can buy a bag - you tell him $10, he buys it

2) @DXMember comes up and asks if he can buy a bag - you tell him $10 - he tells you he doesn't have that much money, so maybe you can offer less apples for $8 ??

at this point you have to options:

a) tell him to go look for apples somewhere else - you lose a potential customer.. like not even a potential, you lose a real customer that's just right there in front of you, you also lose a potential target audience - tens of people like that, that might come up to you in the future

b) give that bag for $8 - you gain that one sale but then @DXMember tells @djdwosk97 that he got a bag of 8 apples for less, and then you get a backfire from both @djdwosk97 and some anti-trust class action law suit for making selective discounts and unfair competition

c) give that bag for $8 but to make it fair, chuck a knife trough two of the apples in the bag (or maybe you have a bag where two of the apples are rotten and you'd have to throw out the bag otherwise) and say - look I've got only bags of 8, but in this bag two of the apples are bad, so it has a discount and you can have it for less - that's a win/win situation, you just created a new product with no additional cost and the customer got his product for the price he was OK with

 

yes the examples are a bit crude, but I hope you get the general idea... that's basically what everyone has been doing for like ever in the computer hardware, it is a win/win for everyone

But I said that. If in testing they found that half the memory was not stable, then yeah divide it and sell it for less. That's not the point of contention.

 

Sorry, the quote went goofy.

 

Yamoto, libertarianism aside there is a responsibility when you accept the roll of a retailer or the like. I know because I spent years owning my own business. If there was no need to oversee the actions of society, we wouldn't need a police force or the space to hold those who went against the laws they enforce. There are rules for a reason, but we're drifting here.

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, App4that said:

But I said that. If in testing they found that half the memory was not stable, then yeah divide it and sell it for less. That's not the point of contention.

Except that on the 4gb card you technically can't access the 8gb of VRAM. So with the 4gb card you have an additional 4gb that you can hack (flash a new bios) to gain access to. And with the apples you can choose to eat rotten apples.... Both are choices that 99% of people won't make. 

[App4that]

3 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The 4790 has some business features that a 4790k does not (trusted execution bit for example). But again, the two are identical with the only difference being in firmware.  

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/520/Intel_Core_i7_i7-4790_vs_Intel_Core_i7_i7-4790K.html

 

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/496/Intel_Core_i5_i5-6600_vs_Intel_Core_i5_i5-6600K.html

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, App4that said:

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/520/Intel_Core_i7_i7-4790_vs_Intel_Core_i7_i7-4790K.html

 

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/496/Intel_Core_i5_i5-6600_vs_Intel_Core_i5_i5-6600K.html

I'm on my phone, so why don't you write down the differences for me. 

[App4that]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Except that on the 4gb card you technically can't access the 8gb of VRAM. So with the 4gb card you have an additional 4gb that you can hack (flash a new bios) to gain access to. And with the apples you can choose to eat rotten apples.... 

The difference comes down to what happens when you gain access to that memory. Do you have a 8g RX 480, or shit memory  

[Yamoto42]

6 minutes ago, App4that said:

But I said that. If in testing they found that half the memory was not stable, then yeah divide it and sell it for less. That's not the point of contention.

 

Sorry, the quote went goofy.

 

Yamoto, libertarianism aside there is a responsibility when you accept the roll of a retailer or the like. I know because I spent years owning my own business. If there was no need to oversee the actions of society, we wouldn't need a police force or the space to hold those who went against the laws they enforce. There are rules for a reason, but we're drifting here.

Ultimately, the point is if someone agrees to pay for 4GB, there is no moral obligation to allow access to more than that.  It was voluntary. Nothing more has been stated or implied by the selling party.

 

Those were the terms of the agreement and they were accepted by both parties.

 

That agreement IS the moral obligation.

 

That is something, as a business owner, you should very much understand.  

[wasd]

OMG!  I bought a V6 Ford Mustang.  After I removed the plastic cover on the engine I found 2 hidden cylinders.  I downloaded an updated firmware and now it's a V8!

 

Woo-hoo!

[App4that]

2 minutes ago, Yamoto42 said:

Ultimately, the point is if someone agrees to pay for 4GB, there is no moral obligation to allow access to more than that.  It was voluntary. Nothing more has been stated or implied by the selling party.   Those were the terms of the agreement and they were accepted by both parties.  That is something, as a business owner, you should very much understand.

You're not following.

 

If AMD tells their customers that both cards have 8g of VRAM, but one has access to only half of it for less. AMD is completely free and clear.

 

Is that what AMD has said?

[App4that]

6 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I'm on my phone, so why don't you write down the differences for me. 

Single threaded performance is better on the k skew. Oh, and I got mine for less than a 4790  No way I'd pay full pull for one.

[App4that]

4 minutes ago, wasd said:

OMG!  I bought a V6 Ford Mustang.  After I removed the plastic cover on the engine I found 2 hidden cylinders.  I downloaded an updated firmware and now it's a V8!

 

Woo-hoo!

A smart ass answer completely gets it, gotta love the internet  

[Yamoto42]

1 minute ago, App4that said:

You're not following.

 

If AMD tells their customers that both cards have 8g of VRAM, but one has access to only half of it for less. AMD is completely free and clear.

 

Is that what AMD has said?

Except AMD stated it was 4 GB.  Does the box say 4 or 8?

 

Are only 4GB accessible on a model with a box saying 8GB?  Then there would be a problem, because the product would not perform at the advertised specifications.

I was under the impression that AMD was advertising the model in question under the pretense of 4GB vram.  So can it access 4 GB of vram, or only 3.5?  If it can access 8, then it can access 4.  There's no reason to expect 8 when you agree to 4, ESPECIALLY when you had the option to explicitly request 8.

[TheRandomness]

34 minutes ago, DXMember said:

I believe it always says unlock possible at your own risk for Fiji cards as they all have locks opposed to Hawaii cards which had hardware disabled on them sometimes but not the other times, for Fiji cards the the general unlockability is dictated by whether or not you have all X in the same column, preferably all in the right most column, then you can do a flash with a predefined BIOS and have a very high success rate, if not you have to do custom BIOS and try your luck

There's a thread over on overclock.net, some people have been able to unlock weird amounts of shaders and have them work

[harrynowl]

6 minutes ago, App4that said:

Single threaded performance is better on the k skew. Oh, and I got mine for less than a 4790  No way I'd pay full pull for one.

Thanks to clock speed. Otherwise the same physical die.

[App4that]

2 minutes ago, Yamoto42 said:

Except AMD stated it was 4 GB.  Does the box say 4 or 8?

 

Are only 4GB accessible on a model with a box saying 8GB?  Then there would be a problem, because the product would not perform at the advertised specifications.

I was under the impression that AMD was advertising the model in question under the pretense of 4GB vram.  So can it access 4 GB of vram, or only 3.5?  If it can access 8, then it can access 4.  There's no reason to expect 8 when you agree to 4, ESPECIALLY when you had the option to explicitly request 8.

I'm against the whole 3.5g deal. Openly.

 

As stated earlier, PLEASE be a customer of mine. If you like the color of your socks so much you don't mind looking at them while we conduct business. Well I'd be happy to accommodate your needs.

[DXMember]

10 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I'm on my phone, so why don't you write down the differences for me. 

I'll do it for you:

• the K skew has higher TDP (due to higher clock)
• the K skew has better performance (due to higher clock)
• the K skew has a higher clock
• the K skew is more expensive (due to both higher clock and an unlocked multiplier)

but I still fail to see how the Devil's Canyon chips are not the same in the way Skylake chips are....

 

plus what he linked is basically a CPU BOSS where they compare the spec sheet...

[TheRandomness]

1 hour ago, DXMember said:

I'm actually looking into unlocking 4 compute units on each of my cards, but haven't got to it yet... maybe next month or so...

one of them almost made it to the full Fury X, but fell short on one CU... fellbadman

the other one is really disappointing and has given me troubles achieving high overclocks in CF...

 

Fiji-class chip with 16 compute units per Shader Engine
SE1 hw/sw: 00030000 / 00000000 [..............xx]
SE2 hw/sw: 00810000 / 00000000 [........x......x]
SE3 hw/sw: 08010000 / 00000000 [....x..........x]
SE4 hw/sw: 00030000 / 00000000 [..............xx]
56 of 64 CUs are active. HW locks: 8 (R/W) / SW locks: 0 (R/W)

 

Fiji-class chip with 16 compute units per Shader Engine
SE1 hw/sw: 00030000 / 00000000 [..............xx]
SE2 hw/sw: 00030000 / 00000000 [..............xx]
SE3 hw/sw: 00030000 / 00000000 [..............xx]
SE4 hw/sw: 00210000 / 00000000 [..........x....x]
56 of 64 CUs are active. HW locks: 8 (R/W) / SW locks: 0 (R/W).

With the top one I think there's a BIOS availible that can unlock certain CUs in the SE, don't try 2 and 3 though because those are probably defective. You could do a 4_low (I think) flash on that one.

With the bottom one you could try 4_all, but if that doesn't work a 4_low probably will.

[App4that]

1 minute ago, DXMember said:

I'll do it for you:

• the K skew has higher TDP (due to higher clock)
• the K skew has better performance (due to higher clock)
• the K skew has a higher clock
• the K skew is more expensive (due to both higher clock and an unlocked multiplier)

but I still fail to see how the Devil's Canyon chips are not the same in the way Skylake chips are....

 

plus what he linked is basically a CPU BOSS where they compare the spec sheet...

Cheap and dirty search. Wanted to make sure I could use the same site.