Who does Apple think they are?

[Dash Lambda]

4 minutes ago, iTzPrime said:

Not trying to be rude, but i dont think you got the point.

Professionals want reliable hardware and good support. Things a custom machine doesn't have.

 

If your graphics card fails, and at the end of the day you still have to deliver a product  - it will be hard with a custom graphics card cause of RMA. 

With apple they can repair most things in a few hours at the apple shop near you. 

 

And the MAC Pro is more like a Smartphone than a custom pc, cause of the formfactor. You cannot built that as a custom rig.

 

Again it is not about consumers, it is about professionals. No consumer should buy a mac pro. a macbook pro yes, but a mac pro won't give them a lot more, but a professional is just at another level, in terms of needs and reliability.

 

And yes a consumer has the time to research, a professional don't have it. And if you work in an industry with equipment where  10 , 000 $ are peanuts, the price doesn't really bother either you or the company. 

You're not being rude :3

 

The reliability of a custom machine can vary, but saying that a custom machine simply can't have reliable hardware is absolutely false. I'm sure you understand that.

As for the support...

-If you're a lone content creator, in the event of a hardware failure, I don't think the time saved (which isn't always that much anyway) would be worth the absurd price premium and inferior hardware to anyone besides a special few with exceptional use cases.

-If you're in a company where tens of thousands of dollars is 'peanuts,' you should have backup machines and an IT staff.

 

The form factor shouldn't matter to the overwhelming majority of content creators, since they're tools. A professional should put function way above form.

 

And also, given how important a computer is to content creation, an independent creator should definitely be able to put the necessary time into making one. It only takes a few hours, and I don't care who you are, you have time that isn't working, eating, and sleeping.

[DaiGurenMK42]

Marketing works. Marketing as a simple, easy to use product is effective. 

[Dash Lambda]

7 minutes ago, Sunshine1868 said:

Most cars are actually built using standardized hardware - that makes them cheaper to manufacture and fix. Also, it is illegal in the US to make a car that MUST be fixed by the manufacturer. (side note, the original Land Rover came with a single wrench that could be used to undo EVERY nut & bolt on the automobile)

 

There are so many posts on this forum with people finding out that their parts are not compatible, or don't work well together, or parts revert to lower functionality because of another piece. These are all things that a person who needs to get a job done doesn't want to worry about. They want to create content and get it out because that is the job they are paid to do; they are not paid to pick computer parts and put it together. They just want something that works; and if it doesn't work, they can take it to a store and get it fixed/replaced same day.

I wasn't saying that cars have no standards, I had three points:

-Computer parts are way more intercompatible than car parts. There are only a handful of numbers you have to match up for everything to work, and only a couple components aren't essentially universal at this point. The more nuanced conflicts that can happen are sparse and easily caught by helpful people on easily accessed forums like this (and tools like PCPP).

-Computer parts are retail products, car parts are not. This means there's a massive difference in ease of access and ease of use.

-A computer is far easier to work with than a car, for obvious reasons.

 

Computers simply aren't complicated enough for "they don't have the time to figure it out" to be an excuse.

(I also personally think that, if a computer's that important to your work, you should learn enough to service and upgrade it anyway.)

[Sunshine1868]

14 hours ago, Dash Lambda said:

I wasn't saying that cars have no standards, I had three points:

-Computer parts are way more intercompatible than car parts. There are only a handful of numbers you have to match up for everything to work, and only a couple components aren't essentially universal at this point. The more nuanced conflicts that can happen are sparse and easily caught by helpful people on easily accessed forums like this (and tools like PCPP).

-Computer parts are retail products, car parts are not. This means there's a massive difference in ease of access and ease of use.

-A computer is far easier to work with than a car, for obvious reasons.

 

Computers simply aren't complicated enough for "they don't have the time to figure it out" to be an excuse.

(I also personally think that, if a computer's that important to your work, you should learn enough to service and upgrade it anyway.)

I won't get into an argument about the ease of maintaining a car vs computer but I will say this: there are university areas of study in Computer Science, meanwhile some random guy named "Joe" with a ketchup stain on his shirt is replacing an engine and transmission in a car...somewhere...right now.

[ShadowCaptain]

18 hours ago, Dash Lambda said:

 all additional storage must be external, there's only a single HDMI 1.4 display out, and the reliability of the entire machine's cooling system falls down to one single fan.

6 thunderbolt ports is insanely useful though

[harrynowl]

You're paying for the ecosystem. And you get support/warranty which is rather important for professional work.

[ShadowCaptain]

21 minutes ago, harrynowl said:

You're paying for the ecosystem. And you get support/warranty which is rather important for professional work.

 

Also, its a machine that runs MacOS

 

If you need a powerful machine that runs MacOS natively and without issues, then you get a Mac Pro

 

you can buy them off the shelf, you get support, its easier to sort out

 

Price to performance is not always a relevant or important metric, but the only thing this forum cares about

 

[Bsmith]

OP made me laugh, replacing workstation GPU's with standard of the shelf gaming GPU's, lol.

Seriously, people should think more sometimes and judge less, especially if they don't know for who it's meant.

[harrynowl]

22 minutes ago, ShadowCaptain said:

 

Also, its a machine that runs MacOS

 

If you need a powerful machine that runs MacOS natively and without issues, then you get a Mac Pro

 

you can buy them off the shelf, you get support, its easier to sort out

 

Price to performance is not always a relevant or important metric, but the only thing this forum cares about

 

This forum mostly cares about gaming and price, which tends to make people a little short-sighted

[Aztec]

On 6/29/2016 at 2:04 AM, ZacMelendez said:

So my dad was looking to buy a new MacBook Pro, and I was looking around the site and came across the Mac Pro. I was configuring some setups, when I created the "God PC". The 12 core, 64 GB DDR3, Dual GPU, and 1 tb of storage. When I saw the price tag, I thought, "Okay. That seems reasonable." But then I fooled around in PCPartPicker, and created the most overkill PC ever. 22 Core Intel Xeon, 128 Gb of DDR4, Dual GTX 1080s, and 1 tb of SSDs. I also included a 4K monitor, a mechanical keyboard and gaming mouse. Only to see that the price was 8500. How can Apple justify the price for the computers they sell when people can build and/or find people to build something of this caliber for them?

One thing that Macs will always beat PCs on is optimisation! You can easily edit 4K video on a underpowered Mac with Apple's software called Final Cut Pro X! I don't know how Apple does it but it works well and that's probs one of their biggest selling point. Well, for me and other content creators out there! However, I do agree that they're a bit overprices but in my opinion it's worth it if you think about what I've mentioned before and again, it's Apple! What do you expect? 

[ShadowCaptain]

11 minutes ago, harrynowl said:

This forum mostly cares about gaming and price, which tends to make people a little short-sighted

very

[Dash Lambda]

2 hours ago, Sunshine1868 said:

I won't get into an argument about the ease of maintaining a car vs computer but I will say this: there are university areas of study in Computer Science, meanwhile some random guy named "Joe" with a ketchup stain on his shirt is replacing an engine and transmission in a car...somewhere...right now.

There are also university areas of study in physics and engineering. I doubt that an average mechanic could design and build every intricate little component of a car the same way I doubt an average PC enthusiast could design an manufacture a microprocessor or write an OS.

Either way, that mechanic still has special training and expensive tools so he can do that, and he doesn't get the parts off Amazon.

2 hours ago, ShadowCaptain said:

6 thunderbolt ports is insanely useful though

Yeah, but it's a tad hindering when it's the majority of your IO and you have no way to add to it.

It's like a watered-down version of the 2015 Macbook's "look at all the shit this port can do, you don't need anything else."

[ShadowCaptain]

2 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

 

Yeah, but it's a tad hindering when it's the majority of your IO and you have no way to add to it.

It's like a watered-down version of the 2015 Macbook's "look at all the shit this port can do, you don't need anything else."

 Its not hindering at all,it can be adapted to almost anything, and you can daisy chain multiple thunderbolt devices together 

plus you could use a thunderbolt to USB hub and expand from there

[Sunshine1868]

1 minute ago, Dash Lambda said:

There are also university areas of study in physics and engineering. I doubt that an average mechanic could design and build every intricate little component of a car the same way I doubt an average PC enthusiast could design an manufacture a microprocessor or write an OS.

Either way, that mechanic still has special training and expensive tools so he can do that, and he doesn't get the parts off Amazon.

 

https://www.amazon.com/automotive-auto-truck-replacements-parts/b?ie=UTF8&node=15684181

 

yeah man, people (primarily automotive enthusiasts) fix their own cars all the time...with parts from amazon. IN THE SAME WAY that many people (primarily computer enthusiasts) fix their own computers...

 

you're beating a dead horse; the average person doesn't want to build a computer the exact same way the average person doesn't want to fix their own car. busy content creators often just want a solution that works. we aren't talking about you tubers here; we are talking about BIG corporations with multi-million dollar contracts for content. they want a supported solution that works.

 

its the exact same reason that not a single enterprise builds their own servers.. they pay 10x the cost for a SUPPORTED solution from HP, Dell, Pure Storage, etc.

[Dash Lambda]

5 minutes ago, ShadowCaptain said:

 Its not hindering at all,it can be adapted to almost anything, and you can daisy chain multiple thunderbolt devices together 

plus you could use a thunderbolt to USB hub and expand from there

Yeah, it can be adapted. So can USB-C, and look at all the good that does for the Macbook.

I know that there's a difference between a desktop and a portable machine, but it's still more of a hassle than just having a variety of ports (perhaps INCLUDING the 6 thunderbolts). When they focus on one port, no matter how universal it is, it always means you'll run into "oh, that thing doesn't use this connector... Guess I need an adapter..." more often.

I'm not saying thunderbolt is bad, I'm saying that the lack of variety is bad.

1 minute ago, Sunshine1868 said:

https://www.amazon.com/automotive-auto-truck-replacements-parts/b?ie=UTF8&node=15684181

 

yeah man, people (primarily automotive enthusiasts) fix their own cars all the time...with parts from amazon. IN THE SAME WAY that many people (primarily computer enthusiasts) fix their own computers...

 

you're beating a dead horse; the average person doesn't want to build a computer the exact same way the average person doesn't want to fix their own car. busy content creators often just want a solution that works. we aren't talking about you tubers here; we are talking about BIG corporations with multi-million dollar contracts for content. they want a supported solution that works.

 

its the exact same reason that not a single enterprise builds their own servers.. they pay 10x the cost for a SUPPORTED solution from HP, Dell, Pure Storage, etc.

Okay, I obviously don't know enough about the car part market to argue on that front.

 

But you really have to realize the two big points here:

-Cars are more difficult to work on than computers. You need more tools, they're way more complex, and they're far bigger and heavier.

-Computer parts are standalone, retail, consumer products. They're designed to be sold individually and assembled by the end user or an OEM into a machine. Car parts (and I hope I actually know what I'm talking about here) are for maintenance or modification of a product that was designed and manufactured by a company in an industrial plant.

 

And, for BIG companies, I highly doubt very many of them use Mac Pros (unless they've had them for a while). I know that it's grossly impractical to have every machine in a fleet custom built. Thing is, even in that setting, they'd have to be stupid to intentionally get such outdated hardware.

[ALwin]

2 hours ago, harrynowl said:

This forum mostly cares about gaming and price, which tends to make people a little short-sighted

The best statement ever, on any topic of "whiny kids who complain about Apple".

[ShadowCaptain]

4 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

Yeah, it can be adapted. So can USB-Cd

 

 

 

And, for BIG companies, I highly doubt very many of them use Mac Pros 

 

USB C would be the way forward for future macs, like if they just had 10 USB C on it - perfect to me

 

 

They do use Mac Pros - if they want MacOS workstations!!! , or they use top end iMacs

[Sauron]

They think they are someone people will buy from regardless, and they are right - although their pc sales aren't nearly as high as their mobile sales.

[ALwin]

6 minutes ago, Sauron said:

They think they are someone people will buy from regardless, and they are right - although their pc sales aren't nearly as high as their mobile sales.

This is very true, and one part of Apple's philosophy is that they are selling the consumer a "lifestyle" or "fashion statement".

[ALwin]

7 minutes ago, ShadowCaptain said:

USB C would be the way forward for future macs, like if they just had 10 USB C on it - perfect to me

I think you mean Thunderbolt 3 (which uses USB-C type connection).

[KWelz]

2 minutes ago, Sunshine1868 said:

I'm not looking down my nose, I'm just saying that we can't judge the difficulty of something because we don't know the other person's point of view. to many people here, building a custom PC would be terribly easy, but fixing a 305 small block would be an impossible task...meanwhile many people could do a complete engine rebuilt in a day but would be dumbfounded if asked to assemble a PC... "you can't judge a fish's intelligence by its ability to climb a tree"

 

 This is exactly what so many people on this forum tend to miss. 

 

My father was an engineer in the Air Force, his job was to maintain nuclear weapons. He quite literally worked on the most dangerous weapons in the world and understands their inner workings to a level that makes my head spin.  My father was an engineer in the Air Force, his job was to maintain nuclear weapons. He quite literally worked on the most dangerous weapons in the world and understands their inner workings to a level that makes my head spin.    He can explain the process of how to disassemble and reassemble  A warhead down to the most minute detail. I am actually heard him do this with some of his old friends from this unit. 

 

But if you sit him down in front of the computer he is lost. I have to help him multiple times a week with the most simplistic computer tasks. Hardware? Forget about that it isn't happening.

You may as well ask him to perform open heart surgery.

 

 

[DildorTheDecent]

On 29/06/2016 at 2:42 AM, manikyath said:

but yeah... if you're a photographer that has no time for custom builds you wont exactly put this thing in your shop will you?

mfw someone gets it 

[manikyath]

2 minutes ago, DildorTheDecent said:

mfw someone gets it 

it's pretty simple: if a device or product has NO marketshare what so ever, it's not worth being produced.

 

so if it's being produced, it's useful somewhere, and it just comes down to finding that spot if you want to know why it exists. 

[ShadowCaptain]

48 minutes ago, ALwin said:

I think you mean Thunderbolt 3 (which uses USB-C type connection).

YES silly me, thunderbolt 3 type c connector

[DildorTheDecent]

6 minutes ago, manikyath said:

it's pretty simple: if a device or product has NO marketshare what so ever, it's not worth being produced.

 

so if it's being produced, it's useful somewhere, and it just comes down to finding that spot if you want to know why it exists. 

And they look pretty too