Wireless Mouse Technology Testing

[nicklmg]

Amazon: http://geni.us/1XBT

NCIX: http://bit.ly/1pPAVZF

 

This video was sponsored by Logitech.

Logitech brought Luke out to the Daniel Borel Innovation Center to check out some of their tests around wireless mouse technology!

 

 

[ahuckphin]

hello. Why unlisted? 

[nicklmg]

1 hour ago, bindydad123 said:

hello. Why unlisted? 

We post each video (whenever possible) to the forum a bit early to get this thread ready & give the forum peeps an opportunity to view a bit early  

[Guest]

Was the competition picked and provided by Logitech?

Cool video and all, but more than hyping me up for the G900, it makes me wish hardware reviewers would be doing this sort of thing with their own equipment using retail samples.

Which okay, the RF anechoic chamber is probably out of the question, but the sensor drift and input latency measurement rigs seem pretty straightforward.

And if you have a university nearby, they probably rent out their RF testing facilities when not in use, so it's not like you'd have to build one if you wanted to go that far.

[sisu]

well that was a long advertaisment  but nice vid, just really logitech bias espescally over razer

[Ender Wiggin]

I very much liked this video. The equipment shown and the test run were great. There dose seem to be some cherry picking with the mice but i still believe there clam as compared to there competition. The one thing they did not show or was not gone over in the video was the operating system if there was one and the drivers/programs. I think what they improved was the Logitech driver software for windows that is how they beat the other competitors. I would like to see them compare there mouse to older version of there wireless mice as well as wired version of Logitech mice. Maybe let them bring in there favorite mouse and test those head to head. I really hope we will get to see more of this!

 

tell me what you think! http://strawpoll.me/7284831

 

Tell me what you think but with multiple votes! http://strawpoll.me/7284833

 

Thanks 

Ender

 

edit: grammar

Edited April 5, 2016 by Ender Wiggin
grammar

[Nexxus]

1 hour ago, sisu said:

well that was a long advertaisment  but nice vid, just really logitech bias espescally over razer

Unless you have run some pretty damn similar tests you have 0 grounds to call this a bias video. 

 

While I myself would like to see some independent testing by LTT on Logitech claims since they are very bold claims. We still have nothing to go on that says they are lying.

[gonvres]

I've never really got the benefit of wireless mouses, they have less performance and you have to charge them. For what use? I can understand for like a HTPC setup, but for a desk next to the computer its much easier just to have a cable. I have a G502 but man i wish they made a wired mx master. I'd buy that in a heartbeat. 

[Nexxus]

2 minutes ago, gonvres said:

I've never really got the benefit of wireless mouses, they have less performance and you have to charge them. For what use? I can understand for like a HTPC setup, but for a desk next to the computer its much easier just to have a cable. I have a G502 but man i wish they made a wired mx master. I'd buy that in a heartbeat. 

cable drag feels disgusting

 

cables are ugly. 

[I am an SSD]

4 hours ago, nicklmg said:

Amazon: http://geni.us/1XBT

NCIX: http://bit.ly/1pPAVZF

 

This video was sponsored by Logitech.

Logitech brought Luke out to the Daniel Borel Innovation Center to check out some of their tests around wireless mouse technology!

 

 

@nicklmg If Luke went to switzerland only for the logitech video, does this rule out possibility of any other episodes of tech shopping around the world? Because I imagine it would be rather hard on the expenses + How can you guys do without Brandon for so long?

[JMJenkins]

Does anyone know the release date on this mouse, I looked on Amazon and says it usually ships between 1-2 months.

[mrchow19910319]

I think that the comparisons they could not be taken too seriously...

 

Hear me out before you disagree with me, I do have some doubts after watching it.

 

In the vid, they did not even use the same mice every time, I mean why keep changing the competitors?? 

        There were 3 sets of tests, and the competitors are: 

        1:  mamba & ouroboros & sensei wireless

        2:  deathadder chroma & mamba

        3:  rival 300 & deathadder chroma 

First of all, why change the competitor?? Why not let all the 5 other mouses showed up in the 3 tests?? Then give us a result, a chart or sth. 

 

Second of all, at the 1st test, when mamba came out, Luke MANUALLY started the interference. When the g900 came out, he did not do that. The result that showed on the screen could be one that already been reset already. The G900 did perform better in the 1st test , but the whole thing felt rigged. Looks like logitech hand picked some of the tests then only showed you the one that G900 can win. 

 

I know that this vid is sponsored by Logitech, and I admit that in all 3 tests the G900 wins hands down, there is no doubt. (I didn't know the sensei was that bad though) , but does it really matter?? As Luke in the vid said some of the tests are simulating some extreme circumstances that can only happen in a lab. It does show us that the G900 is more accurate than its rivals, but when it comes to practical uses how much does it matter? What I mean is that I am not gonna use it in the lab and connect it to the testing machine and looking at the result and feel good about it. Maybe I am too harsh on this vid... I don't know... What do you guys think??

 

[Psykomantis00]

When Luke goes clothes shopping does he ask for help and say "Hi, I'd like all of my shirts to look like terrible christmas sweaters please."?

[Sharif]

Amazing video,would be great to see some logi mice in there too and like @Svinsparbriivu said it would be awesome to have something like that implemented in the mouse reviews 

[samcool55]

I wanted to see their own older mice in that first test.

I'm sure the MX performance will fall flat on it's face on that one. 

I have that one for a couple of years now and it works perfectly, but the range is AWFUL.

Not an issue if the receiver is less than 50cm away, but if you just look at the distance between the mouse and the receiver in their first test, i'm sure it won't go well.

 

So instead of comparing it to other products, they should also compare it to their own things.

And they could at least compare it to something in the same price category...

The rival 300 is 1/3rd of the price and even tho it is slower in the click test, it is more consistant. Just pointing that out.

 

Also it depends on how high the polling rate is turned up into the mouse because that's something you have to keep in mind with USB keyboard and mice.

Just to make this clear: USB keyboard and mouse have to tell the usb controller how many times per second it has to check for input (polling rate).

So if it is 1000Hz, the usb controller will check 1000 times every second to see if the keyboard or mouse has some information it has to send.

If you press a button, that press gets processed by your keyboard and placed in a kind of waiting list, sitting there until the USB controller asks if there is a button pressed, and then the keyboard will send it's waiting list.

 

Of course you don't feel that because it happens so much. 1000Hz is standard atm which is usually fast enough.

 

And that's also the reason why some people prefer PS/2 because with a PS/2 port the keyboard can send the button press straight to the system, causing an interruption which forces the system to accept and process the input.

 

So the further you crank up the polling rate, the lower the latency can get, i'm guessing with the rival 300 it's 1500hz, the chroma runs at 1000hz and the G900 runs at 2500hz. (no idea what the exact numbers are but that's what i can understand from the numbers from Luke's test)

 

And the limiting factor is here usually the sensor, so yes the g900 has a better sensor which causes it to support the higher polling rate, and it better has!

It's really expensive compared to the other mice.

[mikeeginger]

Who brings a Wireless mouse to a lan?

[NikWillOrStuff]

mrchow19910319 mentions very good points that I noticed as well. you should keep them in mind while watching the video. but I do love how they didn't just say "Generic competitor mouse" for these tests, they used the real names. I love knowing this kind of information. 

I would've loved comparing to a lot more mice, but luke probably only had so much time to spend there, and this is a sponsored video after all.

if anyone else with logitech's equipment wants to make a video comparing a ton of different mice (absolutely wishful thinking here), I'd love that so much

[NikWillOrStuff]

36 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

I wanted to see their own older mice in that first test.

I'm sure the MX performance will fall flat on it's face on that one. 

...

Of course you don't feel that because it happens so much. 1000Hz is standard atm which is usually fast enough.

...

So the further you crank up the polling rate, the lower the latency can get, i'm guessing with the rival 300 it's 1500hz, the chroma runs at 1000hz and the G900 runs at 2500hz. 

haha yeah, I had a terrible experience with my mx performance too.

 

I'm not sure, but I think 1,000Hz is the maximum polling rate supported through USB.

 

and you're not taking into account the processing that has to be done. the mouse processor has to realize you clicked the button, then encode it and send it out to a receiver, or through a wire. I know those razer mice run at 1,000hz, and I can pretty safely assume the g900 will run at 1,000 as well. the difference in latency comes from less optimized code/processor/etc.

[Seri]

Huh..so all the (unsupervised and prepepared) test were done inside logitechs own facility and with logitechs own equipment? Gosh i wish i knew the outcome! The tension is killing me.

 

 

 

You could at least plaster a big "INFOMERCIAL" button to the top right of the Video.

[aflyinghotpocket]

This is a great video that goes into a lot of detail which I appreciate, but this was just not my cup of tea...

 

Yea... You were invited to Logitech's office so it would make sense that only one product would be promoted, so I understand that point of view. As @Sisu said, it felt like an 18 minute advertisement for $150 USD mouse. To me, that is simply way to much to spend on a mouse and unnecessary. I originally paid $60 USD for my Naga MMO and I love that mouse so much, but I even thought that $60 USD was getting up there in price. I think that in the end it was a great video and I truly do appreciate the science, detail, and experiments that were done to create the G900, but its just not something that's going to make me rush out and purchase the mouse for any reason what-so-ever. 

[Mirdon]

If I'm paying $150 for a wireless mouse, it better have a battery life of more than 24 hours (or 32).

[DioOmicida]

It's a bit on the pricey side for a mouse but you get what you pay for I suppose.

[chuiu]

I won't accept these results until I can see a third party reproduce these tests with all mice.  For all we know Logitech may have been doing something to give their mice a favorable advantage over the competition.  (though having used the Razer Chroma, I already know that mouse is junk)

[Rushfriend]

Really interesting video, I didn't know that they test wireless mice that way.

 

For all the dutch folks around on this forum (and other people of course) a dutch tech site Tweakers.net also made a video about the same test facility in Switzerland.

In the video they talk about more testing equipment then showed in this LTT Video. They didn't focus on the test results though.

 

For the interested: http://tweakers.net/video/11793/muizen-in-de-kelder-een-bezoek-aan-logitechs-ontwikkellab.html

 

Its not that Tweaker's video is better, they just show the facility in a other way then Luke

[nicklmg]

7 hours ago, I am an SSD said:

@nicklmg If Luke went to switzerland only for the logitech video, does this rule out possibility of any other episodes of tech shopping around the world? Because I imagine it would be rather hard on the expenses + How can you guys do without Brandon for so long?

The plan is to do an episode of that series whenever we go somewhere, so trips to facilities, trips to events, and other sponsored trips should all help to contribute episodes (when time allows).