America, take a good look at your beloved candidates!

[GeekJump]

My favorite thing about Trump is, whenever they do close ups of his supporters, 90% of them look like the stereotypical negative image other countries have of us - white trash, hillbilly, incest driven, gun loving, trailer folk (no offense to those people lol)

 

I don't like any of the options but if I had to pick I would go Sanders. Unfortunately, he has no chance of winning. Yeah he has the young liberal voters but they're countered by the same if not greater amount of conservative peeps. Plus slim chance he is getting the nomination regardless. Hopefully Trumps following are just a very vocal minority.

 

Hillary is a flip flopper to the highest degree and Trump is an extremest carrot. I rather have her than him.

[spwath]

Uh, what about bernie????

[Kobathor]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

-k

The ACA is a horrible regulation. I'd say every healthcare bill that passed under Obama sucks. We pay $700 more a year for our healthcare. Doctors visits are no longer covered, we pay for way more medicine than we used to (as in medicine with no cost to us now costs money,) ambulance bills are a strict $1000/visit instead of $250-500 (depending on family member,) and hospital bills are thousands upon thousands more. Yeah, affordable. If it screws people at all then it sucks, no doubt about it. My friend down the street pays so much for healthcare now, kinda like us, but they get worse coverage for everything. Isn't that great? Were you affected? Around the time it happened, lots I heard among my friends and relatives was about "how much we pay for healthcare now" for MONTHS. And that was it. They STILL complain about how much they pay compared to before the act.

You have no idea if the ACA would have succeeded, given the reps blocked lots of it. Give me some proper research and explanation and I'll believe you.. but I don't think you have it.

 

 

[Real_PhillBert]

5 minutes ago, spwath said:

Uh, what about bernie????

Yesterday was very rough on Bernie. He would have to beat Hillary 2-1 in every primary from here on out to get the nomination.

 

He's effectively done. 

[Volbet]

14 minutes ago, spwath said:

Uh, what about bernie????

Bernie is done. There is no way he'll win now unless a revolution erupts in the Democratic Party. 

And there is no way he'll run as an independent. If he did he would effectivly split the Democrats, almost ensuring that the Republican candidate will win. 

[Citadelen]

And here I am, saying "But I don't want America to be great again".

[handymanshandle]

I can't vote because I'm not 18 (3 more years :/) ... Not sure if most countries are this way with voting, but if it was either Hillary or Trump on that ballot I wouldn't vote both are equally terrible options, Hillary might be a little better than Trump but there's probably no way she'd win against Trump.

 

@Kobathor What makes you think Bernie would kill our Economy? While I'm pensive about a $15 minimum wage I think that a single payer healthcare system makes more sense and would be nice.

Now tuition free college that's a bit of a stretch but I think that there's ways to get something close to that.

Hillary's winning because she's a woman and people seem to only care about that over her positions.

Bernie has also been a supporter of LGBT rights a whole lot longer than Hillary has and some how the Human Rights Campaign and a couple other LGBT groups have endorsed her.

Racism, Sexism, Xenophobia, and Homophobia is not what this country needs but it doesn't need a liar either.

a Democratic Socialist is a whole ton better than either of those two.

 

 

 

[dalekphalm]

5 minutes ago, Kobathor said:

The ACA is a horrible regulation. I'd say every healthcare bill that passed under Obama sucks. We pay $700 more a year for our healthcare. Doctors visits are no longer covered, we pay for way more medicine than we used to (as in medicine with no cost to us now costs money,) ambulance bills are a strict $1000/visit instead of $250-500 (depending on family member,) and hospital bills are thousands upon thousands more. Yeah, affordable. If it screws people at all then it sucks, no doubt about it. My friend down the street pays so much for healthcare now, kinda like us, but they get worse coverage for everything. Isn't that great? Were you affected? Around the time it happened, lots I heard among my friends and relatives was about "how much we pay for healthcare now" for MONTHS. And that was it. They STILL complain about how much they pay compared to before the act.

You have no idea if the ACA would have succeeded, given the reps blocked lots of it. Give me some proper research and explanation and I'll believe you.. but I don't think you have it.

 

 

Of course no one knows how well the ACA would have succeeded in an entirely fictional scenario with no Data. We simply cannot say how much better (or worse) it would have been under a majority Dem House.

 

What we can say for sure, is that the rate of Uninsured Americans has gone down.. A LOT. As in, the lowest percent of uninsured Americans... ever.

 

 

 

There are still issues of course. You'll note I never said the ACA was perfect - far from it! The biggest issue being that some people are caught in the middle: They make too much for Medicaid yet cannot afford private insurance.

 

This is much worse in states that refused the Medicaid Expansion, since Medicaid coverage isn't nearly as good.

 

Private Insurance companies still control the cost of how much they charge, as well as (to some degree) what coverage they get.

 

Again, the ACA is supposed to be a building block. The entire point of it was to get more people insured. You can say that cost and quality of care still need a lot of work, but when tons of people had zero insurance to begin with, that's a problem.

 

A Single Payer healthcare system would mean that you pay tax, and instead of paying for insurance at all, the government covers all basic healthcare needs. Whether the tax actually goes up, is entirely about the efficiency of the system, and about where the money goes. Your American healthcare system, even in it's current state, has loads of room to increase efficiency.

[handymanshandle]

2 minutes ago, Volbet said:

Bernie is done. There is no way he'll win now unless a revolution erupts in the Democratic Party. 

And there is no way he'll run as an independent. If he did he would effectivly split the Democrats, almost ensuring that the Republican candidate will win. 

Hillary isn't inevitable yet there's only like 314 delegates that separate them and still quite a few primaries and big states to go. 

If Bernie is able to pull ahead in Arizona and capture Washington he's got 176 more delegates closing the gap to 136 delegates

Unfortunately Google only shows up to March 26th.

[Kobathor]

4 minutes ago, wcreek said:

I can't vote because I'm not 18 (3 more years :/) ... Not sure if most countries are this way with voting, but if it was either Hillary or Trump on that ballot I wouldn't vote both are equally terrible options, Hillary might be a little better than Trump but there's probably no way she'd win against Trump.

 

@Kobathor What makes you think Bernie would kill our Economy? While I'm pensive about a $15 minimum wage I think that a single payer healthcare system makes more sense and would be nice.

Now tuition free college that's a bit of a stretch but I think that there's ways to get something close to that.

Hillary's winning because she's a woman and people seem to only care about that over her positions.

Bernie has also been a supporter of LGBT rights a whole lot longer than Hillary has and some how the Human Rights Campaign and a couple other LGBT groups have endorsed her.

Racism, Sexism, Xenophobia, and Homophobia is not what this country needs but it doesn't need a liar either.

a Democratic Socialist is a whole ton better than either of those two.

Because he wants all those things! $15 minimum wage would crush tons of minimum wage jobs until the economy equalizes (gets inflated enough to be OK,) free college is impossible with the amount of colleges we have and the insane taxes it would need, and changing our healthcare system entirely. He wants to do that in 4 years. Oh, what a wonderful idea! I don't care if he's for LGBT rights. So are the other two (major) candidates. If they weren't for it, all the millennials wouldn't vote for them.

I think you're right about Hillary. Every supporter I've seen on TV has no real reason that they're voting for her, other than that she's a woman or that she's "good." If "good" means criminal liar then I guess she's the best.

[Volbet]

8 minutes ago, wcreek said:

Hillary isn't inevitable yet there's only like 314 delegates that separate them and still quite a few primaries and big states to go. 

If Bernie is able to pull ahead in Arizona and capture Washington he's got 176 more delegates closing the gap to 136 delegates

Unfortunately Google only shows up to March 26th.

That is true, but Hillary is currently leading the polls in Arizona and Califonia. 

I know Hillary was also leading in Massachusetts untill Bernie won, but it was a rather slim win. 

And that's probably Bernies biggest problem. When he wins it's by a much smaller margin than when Hillary wins. 

 

Edit: In the end I think the greatest thing Bernie can do is leading a political change. 

He has shown that a campaign can be run without corporate money and he has shown that a social democrat can actually have a chance in American politics. 

The US might not see a revolution now, but it might come some day. And right now that day seems closer than ever.

[handymanshandle]

1 minute ago, Kobathor said:

Because he wants all those things! $15 minimum wage would crush tons of minimum wage jobs until the economy equalizes (gets inflated enough to be OK,) free college is impossible with the amount of colleges we have and the insane taxes it would need, and changing our healthcare system entirely. He wants to do that in 4 years. Oh, what a wonderful idea! I don't care if he's for LGBT rights. So are the other two (major) candidates. If they weren't for it, all the millennials wouldn't vote for them.

I think you're right about Hillary. Every supporter I've seen on TV has no real reason that they're voting for her, other than that she's a woman or that she's "good." If "good" means criminal liar then I guess she's the best.

Trump isn't the greatest option on the basis of LGBT rights. Honestly I think a 3rd term for Obama would be a better option than Hillary or Trump. Shame that can't and even it could wouldn't happen.

 

[Real_PhillBert]

8 minutes ago, wcreek said:

Hillary isn't inevitable yet there's only like 314 delegates that separate them and still quite a few primaries and big states to go. 

If Bernie is able to pull ahead in Arizona and capture Washington he's got 176 more delegates closing the gap to 136 delegates

Unfortunately Google only shows up to March 26th.

You're ignoring the super-delegates. Which are a horrible idea, but they can vote for whoever they want regardless of what the population thinks. Right now Hillary has pledges from 467 super delegates, while Bernie has 26.

 

Again, Bernie has to win each primary from here on out 2-1 in order to steal the primary from Hillary.  

[Kobathor]

Just now, wcreek said:

Trump isn't the greatest option on the basis of LGBT rights. Honestly I think a 3rd term for Obama would be a better option than Hillary or Trump. Shame that can't and even it could wouldn't happen.

 

Oh God, a third Obama would really destroy the country. Literally, though. Like, giving Iran more nukes, then ISIS takes them over and nukes the US. That might happen.

[handymanshandle]

1 minute ago, Volbet said:

That is true, but Hillary is currently leading the polls in Arizona and Califonia. 

I know Hillary was also leading in Massachusetts untill Bernie won, but it was a rather slim win. 

And that's probably Bernies biggest problem. When he wins it's by a much smaller margin than when Hillary wins. 

Eh he won by a pretty large margin in my state (Minnesota) and in New Hampshire and Vermont.

[handymanshandle]

4 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

You're ignoring the super-delegates. Which are a horrible idea, but they can vote for whoever they want regardless of what the population thinks. Right now Hillary has pledges from 467 super delegates, while Bernie has 26.

 

Again, Bernie has to win each primary from here on out 2-1 in order to steal the primary from Hillary.  

Yes Super Delegates are horrible but if he was leading in pledged delegates and the super delegates still voted for Hillary, I think that would cause a bit of an issue. 

4 minutes ago, Kobathor said:

Oh God, a third Obama would really destroy the country. Literally, though. Like, giving Iran more nukes, then ISIS takes them over and nukes the US. That might happen.

Lol.

[Volbet]

4 minutes ago, wcreek said:

Eh he won by a pretty large margin in my state (Minnesota) and in New Hampshire and Vermont.

I agree on Vermont, but the New Hampshire ´win´ was only a win on popular vote. 

When all the super delegates were accounted for he didn't win anything.

[handymanshandle]

1 minute ago, Volbet said:

I agree on Vermont, but the New Hampshire ´win´ was only a win on popular vote. 

When all the super delegates were accounted for he didn't win anything.

Eh

[wpirobotbuilder]

I'm going to put this out there, because it makes fun of everyone:

 

 

 

[spwath]

33 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

Yesterday was very rough on Bernie. He would have to beat Hillary 2-1 in every primary from here on out to get the nomination.

 

He's effectively done. 

Well thats not good. Trump vs Hillary and Trump could win...

[dalekphalm]

3 minutes ago, wcreek said:

Eh he won by a pretty large margin in my state (Minnesota) and in New Hampshire and Vermont.

 

4 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

You're ignoring the super-delegates. Which are a horrible idea, but they can vote for whoever they want regardless of what the population thinks. Right now Hillary has pledges from 467 super delegates, while Bernie has 26.

 

Again, Bernie has to win each primary from here on out 2-1 in order to steal the primary from Hillary.  

The Super Delegates could also switch over to Bernie, if they so pleased. If the SD's switched sides, that would put Bernie in the lead by about 127 delegates.

 

Take the Super Delegates out of the equation, and it's a pretty close race. Granted, Bernie would need to seriously pick up the pace, for him to realistically win. But it's not impossible yet.

 

7 minutes ago, Kobathor said:

Oh God, a third Obama would really destroy the country. Literally, though. Like, giving Iran more nukes, then ISIS takes them over and nukes the US. That might happen.

Honestly, I don't even know what to make of this. Care to back up any of your statements with sources, facts, or logic? Obama has been slowly and steadily rebuilding the US. Would another President have done a better job? Maybe. Maybe not. But he's not doing a bad job. You're literally equating Obama to ISIS blowing up America with Nukes. You realize how hard it is to take that statement seriously?

 

Of course, the whole Government Spying thing is a different discussion, and I doubt a Rep President would make any difference there.

 

Just now, spwath said:

Well thats not good. Trump vs Hillary and Trump could win...

You really think Bernie would have a better chance vs Trump?

[spwath]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

 

The Super Delegates could also switch over to Bernie, if they so pleased. If the SD's switched sides, that would put Bernie in the lead by about 127 delegates.

 

Take the Super Delegates out of the equation, and it's a pretty close race. Granted, Bernie would need to seriously pick up the pace, for him to realistically win. But it's not impossible yet.

 

Honestly, I don't even know what to make of this. Care to back up any of your statements with sources, facts, or logic? Obama has been slowly and steadily rebuilding the US. Would another President have done a better job? Maybe. Maybe not. But he's not doing a bad job. You're literally equating Obama to ISIS blowing up America with Nukes. You realize how hard it is to take that statement seriously?

 

Of course, the whole Government Spying thing is a different discussion, and I doubt a Rep President would make any difference there.

 

You really think Bernie would have a better chance vs Trump?

He could. My dad, a Republican, switched to Democrat to vote Bernie, and won't vote Hillary.

[VerticalDiscussions]

5 hours ago, terrytek said:

-snip-

You wanna leave america? But my moms house isnt on america

[Real_PhillBert]

13 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

The Super Delegates could also switch over to Bernie, if they so pleased. If the SD's switched sides, that would put Bernie in the lead by about 127 delegates.

 

Take the Super Delegates out of the equation, and it's a pretty close race. Granted, Bernie would need to seriously pick up the pace, for him to realistically win. But it's not impossible yet.

It's possible for them to switch sides, but wildly unlikely. Bernie is just as anti establishment democrat as Trump is anti establishment republican, you have to keep in mind who these super delegates are, established democrats. Those votes aren't going anywhere. You can quote me on that. Perhaps a very small amount will move around, but not enough to create any type of change in the pecking order. 

 

I already have one bet out on the primaries with a forum member, I'm putting steam games on it.

 

Quote

You really think Bernie would have a better chance vs Trump?

Perhaps I am over selling things, but I think Bernie has a better chance in a general election than Hillary. Bernie motivates voters, no one really likes Hillary, but she is more center of the road than Sanders. Although I am much less confident making GE predictions at this point.

[Zodiark1593]

So, Canada a good place to move? That healthcare aspect could help too.