AMD does not need to catch up to intel.

[jimakos234]

I did. I said compare i5 4460 to FX.

well, for sure the i5 has better performance, but still, i mentioned the fx because on a server workload with virtual machines, the extra threads of the fx,let alone the xeon, will come in more handy,even if the i5 is stronger than the fx, thats why i mentioned server and budget.

[ZetZet]

Yes because I can overclock and tune my PC like i have done with my 8350... Would I rather have an i5, probably but when I bought the FX the i5 wasn't within my budget... and I'm yet to see a bottle neck... my gpu is pretty much at 94-99%... If the i5 wasn't over £200 back when I bought my FX then I'd of had that.

But overclocking does nothing. It's still slower than a locked i5. And more expensive after you add a cooler to the budget and the time you spent doing it, potential risks involved. 

 

I can because budget, I couldn't afford the i5 at the time.

You couldn't afford an unlocked i5, you could afford a locked one. You have a god damn sabretooth and watercooling. You spent so much money on the platform alone you could have easily fit in an i7 in your build.

 

 

All I am seeing in your posts is buyers remorse and trying to defend your own mistakes in planning.

[Tomsen]

Intel can't convince people to upgrade. Keep it within sandy-haswell core performance, and they will do all fine.

Abuse intels artificial product-segmentation, go more aggressive on delivering AMD-exclusive OEM products, and they might end up with some very competitive products.

[Benji_w]

Of course, nobody WANTS AMD to die, but equally I am not going to recommend a product that i find inferior, when for that same money, they can get something IS factually better

 

"and AMD would do the job" sure, but why should they settle for "does the job" when a similar product can potentially do it better?

 

can I live with a locked i5? sure, I have not even overclocked my 4770k, overclocking is overrated, just because you need to OC an 8350 to be competitive does not mean that you have to OC an i5

 

Then why do you own an unlocked CPU? I'd only recommend a CPU that someone needs rather than let it sit in a computer not performing at it's best. It's like me buying a Subaru and letting it sit on the drive because I have a motorcycle license. This is what I don't understand about most people who buy tech, you pay out your arse to have the greatest then don't even push them... What's the point? "they perform well stock so there's no need" fuck that, if I spunked £700+ on a X99 chip i'd want my fucking money's worth lmao I've got what I wanted from my FX it does everything an intel can do just slightly slower and it was shit when it came out yet still performs? I'm glad I didn't waste all my cash on an intel rig. 

 

But overclocking does nothing. It's still slower than a locked i5. And more expensive after you add a cooler to the budget and the time you spent doing it, potential risks involved. 

 

You couldn't afford an unlocked i5, you could afford a locked one. You have a god damn sabretooth and watercooling. You spent so much money on the platform alone you could have easily fit in an i7 in your build.

 

 

All I am seeing in your posts is buyers remorse and trying to defend your own mistakes in planning.

 

I got a custom loop that I can transfer to any build, I would of got a custom set up on intel, again couldn't afford the intel rig when I got mine, also all my watercooling parts are pretty much 50% off other than the CPU block. Defending mistakes? Not really as I couldn't afford the intel, not sure how many times I can tell you that tbh, also when I was looking to upgrade I heard Skylake was coming so rather than waste cash buying old tech I'm probably going to grab myself a skylake.

[Benji_w]

Intel can't convince people to upgrade. Keep it within sandy-haswell core performance, and they will do all fine.

Abuse intels artificial product-segmentation, go more aggressive on delivering AMD-exclusive OEM products, and they might end up with some very competitive products.

 

Depends, DDR4 will be mainstream so will have to see where that is heading. We can only wait and see. Personally I'll end up upgrading before Zen arrives so it's pretty pointless for me.

[ZetZet]

I got a custom loop that I can transfer to any build, I would of got a custom set up on intel, again couldn't afford the intel rig when I got mine, also all my watercooling parts are pretty much 50% off other than the CPU block. Defending mistakes? Not really as I couldn't afford the intel, not sure how many times I can tell you that tbh, also when I was looking to upgrade I heard Skylake was coming so rather than waste cash buying old tech I'm probably going to grab myself a skylake.

The only problem with your reasoning here is... you don't need a custom loop if you are budget limited. You don't, it gives you no value. none. zero. absolutely nothing. Money wasted. It looks nice I guess. It sounds cool. It gives you no day to day performance, which was your main argument before.

[ShadowCaptain]

Then why do you own an unlocked CPU? I'd only recommend a CPU that someone needs rather than let it sit in a computer not performing at it's best. It's like me buying a Subaru and letting it sit on the drive because I have a motorcycle license. This is what I don't understand about most people who buy tech, you pay out your arse to have the greatest then don't even push them... What's the point? "they perform well stock so there's no need" fuck that, if I spunked £700+ on a X99 chip i'd want my fucking money's worth lmao I've got what I wanted from my FX it does everything an intel can do just slightly slower and it was shit when it came out yet still performs? I'm glad I didn't waste all my cash on an intel rig. 

 

 

Because I could afford it? I have a motorbike in the garage because i drive my car to work. I am not interested in "pushing them" I just want it to work off the shelf, 

Besides, for the money you pay for your FX solution, I could find a Intel solution that performs the same or better and costs the same money (maybe less, maybe a few % more)

[Benji_w]

The only problem with your reasoning here is... you don't need a custom loop if you are budget limited. You don't, it gives you no value. none. zero. absolutely nothing. Money wasted. It looks nice I guess. It sounds cool. It gives you no day to day performance, which was your main argument before.

 

I'd need a custom loop if I was overclocking an unlocked CPU which is what I would buy, you changed the discussion to my custom loop on your own. My argument is budget again let me go back to 2012 when I got this FX chip, the intel was too expensive, I had an air cooler on my FX when I started overclocking and hit 4.7ghz while tuning up the rest blah blah blah. 

 

The discussion evolved onto other areas which you brought up and I also added now you're trying to focus on anything you can to discredit me. The i5 is better, 100%, would I have bought one if I had the cash, yes, an unlocked one, would I have watercooled that, yes, this is how it is relevant. Do I recommend an FX these days? No, why? i5 is stronger and for someone who doesn't want to overclock or know how to the FX is useless to them.

 

Anything else to say or you still searching for anything you can? Budget is still relevant to a PC builder's choice. An i5 isn't always the answer.

[Benji_w]

Because I could afford it? I have a motorbike in the garage because i drive my car to work. I am not interested in "pushing them" I just want it to work off the shelf, 

Besides, for the money you pay for your FX solution, I could find a Intel solution that performs the same or better and costs the same money (maybe less, maybe a few % more)

 

Fair enough, seems pointless to me. All that performance that makes intels so much better just sat there twiddling it's thumbs. Such a shame, like a Honda NSR250 sat on a pedestal rotting away because the owner had the money. 

[ShadowCaptain]

I'd need a custom loop if I was overclocking an unlocked CPU which is what I would buy, you changed the discussion to my custom loop on your own. 

 

No you do not, a cheap evo 212 will let you OC an i5/i7 to a great degree

 

 

As you said, you do not recommend the FX series yourself.... because AMD are behind.... and outside of speculations about Zen it is equally unlikely they will catch up with Intel who have the budget and market share to R&D and develop better tech, or buy other companies to gain an advantage

[ZetZet]

The discussion evolved onto other areas which you brought up and I also added now you're trying to focus on anything you can to discredit me. The i5 is better, 100%, would I have bought one if I had the cash, yes, an unlocked one, would I have watercooled that, yes, this is how it is relevant. Do I recommend an FX these days? No, why? i5 is stronger and for someone who doesn't want to overclock or know how to the FX is useless to them.

 

Anything else to say or you still searching for anything you can? Budget is still relevant to a PC builder's choice. An i5 isn't always the answer.

You just said that you wouldn't recommend FX and then the next sentence you again say that i5 isn't always the answer.

 

 

Can we make this clear, OVERCLOCKED FX doesn't match a LOCKED i5 now. Yes i5 is always the answer. It is. It just is.

 

No you do not, a cheap evo 212 will let you OC an i5/i7 to a great degree

Pretty much most of the way. Going to a custom loop or water coolers only gets you the last couple percent of the performance, which again is a terrible value, people do it because it's cool.

[Tomsen]

Can we make this clear, OVERCLOCKED FX doesn't match a LOCKED i5 now. Yes i5 is always the answer. It is. It just is.

Someone has been bit by marketing?

[ShadowCaptain]

 

You just said that you wouldn't recommend FX and then the next sentence you again say that i5 isn't always the answer.

 

 

Can we make this clear, OVERCLOCKED FX doesn't match a LOCKED i5 now. Yes i5 is always the answer. It is. It just is.

 

Pretty much most of the way. Going to a custom loop or water coolers only gets you the last couple percent of the performance, which again is a terrible value, people do it because it's cool.

 

 

Thats what I thought, hes defending a product he would not even recommend himself......

 

I think we can agree, neither you or me hate AMD, we just dont want to recommend a  product when better ones are available

 

And yes, crazy OCing, and custom loops are 100% unnecessary, they are for E-peen, enthusiasts, tinkerers

 

 

Someone has been bit by marketing?

 

 

its not marketing - check out one of 100000 billion benchmarks and tests, compare the prices of the products, its just fact based

 

I know ZetZet does not hate AMD, I dont either, but I will not be telling anybody to buy an FX CPU because they just do not make much sense anymore from a performance OR value proposition 

[ZetZet]

Someone has been bit by marketing?

Someone thinks he is smarter than everyone else with no evidence on his side?

 

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1403?vs=1198

[Benji_w]

 

You just said that you wouldn't recommend FX and then the next sentence you again say that i5 isn't always the answer.

 

 

Can we make this clear, OVERCLOCKED FX doesn't match a LOCKED i5 now. Yes i5 is always the answer. It is. It just is.

 

Pretty much most of the way. Going to a custom loop or water coolers only gets you the last couple percent of the performance, which again is a terrible value, people do it because it's cool.

 

 

Most of the best overclocks are on water, so think I'll go with that... I don't recommend the FX range because they're too far gone, they where ok-ish at the time but to get the performance out of them they need overclocking on a good motherboard, so it brings it in touch with the I5 anyway, different story when I purchased my FX though... 

 

No you do not, a cheap evo 212 will let you OC an i5/i7 to a great degree

 

 

As you said, you do not recommend the FX series yourself.... because AMD are behind.... and outside of speculations about Zen it is equally unlikely they will catch up with Intel who have the budget and market share to R&D and develop better tech, or buy other companies to gain an advantage

 

212 wouldnt be able to handle where I would want to go, that's why most people with good overclocks are using water. Maybe they're doing something wrong, I best go tell them before it's too late! 

 

So you're saying they just stopped R&D all these years? If AMD were struggling so much why didn't they sell when someone offered to buy them out? I don't recommend the FX range now because an unlocked i5 will do at the same price point, but that wasn't the case when I bought my FX, I would of watercooled the i5 if I was overclocking it with good reason. I also didn't pay as much as you think I did for this custom loop.

[ZetZet]

Most of the best overclocks are on water, so think I'll go with that... 

Are you serious? Who needs to have the BEST overclock? It's like 1-5% difference anyway. Doesn't change anything in actual day to day use. Other than hurt your wallet.

The only people who go for the BEST overclock are enthusiasts not limited by the money and do it for fun, not for the value.

[Benji_w]

Thats what I thought, hes defending a product he would not even recommend himself......

 

I think we can agree, neither you or me hate AMD, we just dont want to recommend a  product when better ones are available

 

And yes, crazy OCing, and custom loops are 100% unnecessary, they are for E-peen, enthusiasts, tinkerers

 

 

 

 

its not marketing - check out one of 100000 billion benchmarks and tests, compare the prices of the products, its just fact based

 

I know ZetZet does not hate AMD, I dont either, but I will not be telling anybody to buy an FX CPU because they just do not make much sense anymore from a performance OR value proposition 

 

For gaming, i5, anything else the FX will do, said it yourself.

My overclocking isn't for E-peen either, its for getting what I can out of a system I currently have. Please more blanket statements.

[Benji_w]

Are you serious? Who needs to have the BEST overclock? It's like 1-5% difference anyway. Doesn't change anything in actual day to day use. Other than hurt your wallet.

The only people who go for the BEST overclock are enthusiasts not limited by the money and do it for fun, not for the value.

 

Because if I'm paying a premium for a product, I want what I'm paying for. If I buy an intel that's unlocked I want to push it as far as it will go, I know you will struggle to understand this concept but hey ho.

[Tomsen]

its not marketing - check out one of 100000 billion benchmarks and tests, compare the prices of the products, its just fact based

 

I know ZetZet does not hate AMD, I dont either, but I will not be telling anybody to buy an FX CPU because they just do not make much sense anymore from a performance OR value proposition

It is marketing. Look at his statement. Is is simple ridiculous.

It is quite clear he have something against AMD. Going by his post and attitude towards it.

Unless of course he is just ignorant.

It is not because I'm saying Intel wont be the obvious choice to many, but saying always, simply is wrong.

 

Someone thinks he is smarter than everyone else with no evidence on his side?

 

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1403?vs=1198

Do I now?

Do you even know how to intepret the data? Or just looking at numbers and making clueless conclussions?

[ZetZet]

Because if I'm paying a premium for a product, I want what I'm paying for. If I buy an intel that's unlocked I want to push it as far as it will go, I know you will struggle to understand this concept but hey ho.

so it's your personal belief that you need to waste money on irrelevant things and save on the things that actually make a difference.

 

Do you even know how to intepret the data? Or just looking at numbers and making clueless conclussions?

Please elaborate.

[ShadowCaptain]

For gaming, i5, anything else the FX will do, said it yourself.

My overclocking isn't for E-peen either, its for getting what I can out of a system I currently have. Please more blanket statements.

 

The i5 will still do everything else, for a normal home user a locker i5, h81 board and stock cooler is a great product that is very powerful and great value

 

Severe overcooking is....the difference between an overclock on a 212, and the overclock on a custom loop is not economical. you might get 5-10% better performance but you are spending as much on the cooling as you are the CPU - and for 99% of programs would make no real difference

[Majestic]

Oh well i did ask a forum to think.... Bad idea.

People and their narrow brains .... Annoys me.

Fuck me it's like trying to teach sex ed to autistic 10 year olds on this forum.

Basic fucking brain cell usage guys... Wow.

I'm done... You are the opitome of a sheep.

Beta males everywhere.

Today we should all bash our heads on our desks! Tweet it once you have split your head open.

 

So i need to search everything i want to discuss? Why the hell does this forum get new topics o.0

 

You're like... a living caricature of yourlogicalfallacyis.com

 

Strawman

Adhominem

Tu quoque

 

Aswell as stuff not displayed on that website;

Lack of self-awareness

Lack of effort

Cognitive Dissonance

Dunning-Kruger*

 

*"T]he skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is." 

 

Which is the thing about dunning-kruger, you don't realise just how wrong you are, therefor someone else must be wrong. It's like a vicious cycle.

You don't defend a comment or argument, you just go full dissonance and lash out at everyone who doesn't agree with you.

 

This type of personality is becoming a pandemic. Special snowflakes everywhere, being brought up in a safe enviroment thinking they can never be (or do) wrong.

Because everyone in their life thusfar has been nothing but lip-service. Pandering to their every whim.

[Benji_w]

so it's your personal belief that you need to waste money on irrelevant things and save on the things that actually make a difference.

 

Not sure where you're going with this now, I clearly said if I'm buying an intel (something I don't really need right now as my FX is doing fine) I want it to be what I'm paying for, I'm a gamer and I like to overclock my stuff so I'm getting what I'm paying for, that is the purpose of overclocking for me personally. Saying I don't need my custom loop or it's for E-peen is daft because it's doing what I needed it to do, control the thermals of my overclock, my overclock is to get the most out of my system.

[ZetZet]

Not sure where you're going with this now, I clearly said if I'm buying an intel (something I don't really need right now as my FX is doing fine) I want it to be what I'm paying for, I'm a gamer and I like to overclock my stuff so I'm getting what I'm paying for, that is the purpose of overclocking for me personally. Saying I don't need my custom loop or it's for E-peen is daft because it's doing what I needed it to do, control the thermals of my overclock, my overclock is to get the most out of my system.

So you LIKE to overclock. And that's why you overpay, we are finally getting somewhere. You LIKE to pay more just so you could tinker with it and have fun. If you are spending money on what you like why do you argue about the value of the thing, it's clearly worse value wise, you just spend more money because you want to overclock, for fun.

 

 

 

Or do you seriously believe that overclocking gives you more for the money? Because it clearly doesn't. That's why I am sitting with a Xeon. I like value, not fun overclocking.

[Mikjul]

You love me so much... Look how big this post is lol

You're like... a living caricature of yourlogicalfallacyis.com

 

Strawman

Adhominem

Tu quoque

 

Aswell as stuff not displayed on that website;

Lack of self-awareness

Lack of effort

Cognitive Dissonance

Dunning-Kruger*

 

*"T]he skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is." 

 

Which is the thing about dunning-kruger, you don't realise just how wrong you are, therefor someone else must be wrong. It's like a vicious cycle.

You don't defend a comment or argument, you just go full dissonance and lash out at everyone who doesn't agree with you.

 

This type of personality is becoming a pandemic. Special snowflakes everywhere, being brought up in a safe enviroment thinking they can never be (or do) wrong.

Because everyone in their life thusfar has been nothing but lip-service. Pandering to their every whim.