Nvidia to Discontinue 2GB Versions of the Geforce GTX 960 – 4GB Version Better Suited to Deal with the R9 380

[Atmos]

And yet have you actually used the card to know? No, you probably haven't.

 

I have had two GTX 960 Gaming G1 4GBs for a couple of weeks now, one since July. I have played games where I saw good performance and up to 4GB VRAM usage, including GTA V. I plan to test it more, but from what I've been doing so far, the card's "mathematically incapable of utilizing more than just over 2gbs of vram" 128-bit bus has been working perfectly fine.

 

But then again, what do I know? I'll probably just be called a shill.

 

I do actually have experience with it. In building rigs for friends a couple have purchased them. Regardless of what usage you see, what improvements over a 2gb variant have you seen? Because along with first hand experience, and every benchmark i've come across from a reputable source, there are no differences, or what differences there are, are within the margin of error.

[Nowak]

Am I the only one who hasn't exactly been the most blown-away by Maxwell overall?

I haven't been too, I'll probably wait until Pascal or so before upgrading.

[Dabombinable]

If anyone can do a comparison, play Skyrim with the high res DLC and only the texture optimizations at 1080p and 1440p-that will really show the difference in performance.

[Bob Jim]

The most funny thing about all this is that you can overclock a 950 to near-960 performance.

Am I the only one who hasn't exactly been the most blown-away by Maxwell overall?

What I find hilarious is how suddenly everyone is going on about efficiency like its the best thing in the world...Nvidia has such a large amount of ignorant followers they can count on to dominate the Internet with free adverts. Currently AMD>Nvidia other than the 980Ti.

[ivan134]

-snip

I don't think anyone ever knows what the fuck Nvidia is talking about.

[ybriK]

What's the math behind the 128 bit memory bus width not being able to utilize the 4GB of VRAM? I thought the "delta color compression" on the GM chips had something to do with this and that's why Nvidia's cards don't have a big memory bus width? Or am I completely going off track here. I don't recall Nvidia ever having a 512 bit memory bus width for a single GPU...

[Nowak]

What's the math behind the 128 bit memory bus width not being able to utilize the 4GB of VRAM? I thought the "delta color compression" on the GM chips had something to do with this and that's why Nvidia's cards don't have a big memory bus width? Or am I completely going off track here. I don't recall Nvidia ever having a 512 bit memory bus width for a single GPU...

The GTX 280 and 285 were both 512-bit GPUs. Those are the only two 512-bit single GPUs they've ever made. Since the GTX 480, the widest bus they've used on a single GPU is 384-bit.

[don_svetlio]

What's the math behind the 128 bit memory bus width not being able to utilize the 4GB of VRAM? I thought the "delta color compression" on the GM chips had something to do with this and that's why Nvidia's cards don't have a big memory bus width? Or am I completely going off track here. I don't recall Nvidia ever having a 512 bit memory bus width for a single GPU...

I can't exactly recall the formula used to calculate bandwidth but it plays a major role - the 4096-bit bus is the sole reason the Fury X is as good as a TitanX/980 Ti or better @ 4K and why it's the go-to GPU for VR. The larger buss means more speed, means less latency, means less lag/stutter when swapping out textures are your memory is maxed. So the 128-bit bus on the 960 is a major limitation and when you attempt to swap out large and multiple files to and from it you get to experience it.

On a side note: RiP 960. Seriously - with that card you pay more for software than hardware. Once Pascal drops - the 960 will suddenly become less than the current stock 950 as driver optimization slow down and eventually stop as a whole so that Nvidia can sell their new shinies.

[soaringchicken]

I really hope Nvidia is aware that the memory bus can't handle 4gb, I'm really hoping a massive company like them won't overlook something like that.

[don_svetlio]

I really hope Nvidia is aware that the memory bus can't handle 4gb, I'm really hoping a massive company like them won't overlook something like that.

You are talking about a company that won't sell a good cooler for their most powerful card.

[Lethal Seraph]

You are talking about a company that won't sell a good cooler for their most powerful card.

I think green team's logic is that flagship card don't have to make sense. And that people who can afford that would just watercool it anyway. But yeah, it's more just bragging rights.

[don_svetlio]

I think green team's logic is that flagship card don't have to make sense. And that people who can afford that would just watercool it anyway. But yeah, it's more just bragging rights.

If I could afford it I wouldn't watercool it honestly. Not worth the hassle

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Makes sense to discontinue. The 2GB 960 never really made sense. The 280/x had more vram, 380 had a 4GB variant and the 950 is a tough competition for the 960.  

 

 

The cheapest 2GB GTX 960 is currently $184 while the cheapest 4GB is currently $209. Just keep in mind WCCF have a heavy AMD bias, they're going to bend the numbers to fit their agenda just like others would for NVIDIA.

 

Better still, that's before the MIRs. The $184 card would go down $5 while the $209 card would go down $20.

 

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-video-card-gtx9602gd5toc

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-video-card-gtx9604gd5ttitaniumoc

 

Sadly the cheapest 380 2GB is $169.99 ($153.98 after mir) and the cheapest 380 4GB is $199.99 ($183.98 after mir) with both being PCS+ models. 

 

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/powercolor-video-card-axr93802gbd5ppdhe

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/powercolor-video-card-axr93804gbd5ppdhe

[Albatross]

I would still purchase the AMD card over it. Just better performance for the price range...

[patrickjp93]

Do you know why it is no match, no matter the ram it uses?

You see, theres this little thing called a memory bus, and the 960 seems to be stuck with a three generation old 128bit bus. This isn't problematic on the 2gb variant, as that's just enough. However, a 128bit bus is mathematically incapable of utilizing more than just over 2gbs of vram, literally making that extra 2gbs on a 4gb card completely, and utterly useless.

Uh, wrong... 256-bit bus on 5GHz GDDR5 gives you (256/8=32)*5*10^9 = 160GB/s

(128/8)*8*10^9 = 128GB/s You can work on 4GB of VRAM with both of those. AMD made it work on 160GB/s. As per who makes 8GHz GDDR5, Hynix does, and it's already been shipped out, but no one knows if any company will end up using it (Titan X 2?)

[don_svetlio]

Uh, wrong... 256-bit bus on 5GHz GDDR5 gives you (256/8=32)*5*10^9 = 160GB/s

(128/8)*8*10^9 = 128GB/s You can work on 4GB of VRAM with both of those. AMD made it work on 160GB/s. As per who makes 8GHz GDDR5, Hynix does, and it's already been shipped out, but no one knows if any company will end up using it (Titan X 2?)

5.5-6* GHz 256-bit bus. And sorry but the 960 has 7GHz memory, not 8GHz. Please CITE YOUR FUCKING SOURCE FOR ONCE.

[WereCat]

And yet have you actually used the card to know? No, you probably haven't.

I have had two GTX 960 Gaming G1 4GBs for a couple of weeks now, one since July. I have played games where I saw good performance and up to 4GB VRAM usage, including GTA V. I plan to test it more, but from what I've been doing so far, the card's "mathematically incapable of utilizing more than just over 2gbs of vram" 128-bit bus has been working perfectly fine.

But then again, what do I know? I'll probably just be called a shill.

From where are you talking your VRAM usage numbers?

If from game settings menu then those are not true.

Last time I checked it was saying that I am using 3.5GB on my GTX 770 2GB.

No AA and Advanced settings on default and everything maxed out. Game was running at 60FPS and no crashes so I am sure that I was not using even 2GB of VRAM..btw 1080p.

[patrickjp93]

5.5-6* GHz 256-bit bus. And sorry but the 960 has 7GHz memory, not 8GHz. Please CITE YOUR FUCKING SOURCE FOR ONCE.

All I did was say a 128-bit bus can handle 4GB, and it can as demonstrated by the math. AMD got away with 256 at 5GHz on 4 for either the 270X or 280. Nvidia would just have to up the memory clock to 8 to compensate for the difference in bus sizes just like it did with 7GHz on 384 against AMD's 512 at 5, coming to 336GB/s and 320GB/s bandwidth respectively for the 780TI and 290X.

Would you people please get it through your heads that there are some things sources aren't necessary for, especially in cases where objectivity simply boils down to 3rd grade arithmetic?

[don_svetlio]

All I did was say a 128-bit bus can handle 4GB, and it can as demonstrated by the math. AMD got away with 256 at 5GHz on 4 for either the 270X or 280. Nvidia would just have to up the memory clock to 8 to compensate for the difference in bus sizes just like it did with 7GHz on 384 against AMD's 512 at 5, coming to 336GB/s and 320GB/s bandwidth respectively for the 780TI and 290X.

Would you people please get it through your heads that there are some things sources aren't necessary for, especially in cases where objectivity simply boils down to 3rd grade arithmetic?

The 380 has memory clocked at 5.5 to 6GHz, not 5GHz - that means you manipulated the numbers.

The 960 has 7GHz memory, not 8GHz - again - you came up with numbers.

Forgive me for not following you blindly but YOU ARE LYING OUT OF YOUR ASS

[patrickjp93]

The 380 has memory clocked at 5.5 to 6GHz, not 5GHz - that means you manipulated the numbers.

The 960 has 7GHz memory, not 8GHz - again - you came up with numbers.

Forgive me for not following you blindly but YOU ARE LYING OUT OF YOUR ASS

Aftermarket cards are not my concern, and I used the 280 as my card selection. Reference comparisons or go home.

No because I never claimed the 960 ran with 8GHz memory. I'm saying Nvidia could change the memory on the 4GB SKU to make up for it. No manipulation and no thin air number pulling, just the facts. If Nvidia does X, they will be fine.

[Dabombinable]

 

The 380 has memory clocked at 5.5 to 6GHz, not 5GHz - that means you manipulated the numbers.
The 960 has 7GHz memory, not 8GHz - again - you came up with numbers.

Forgive me for not following you blindly but YOU ARE LYING OUT OF YOUR ASS

TBH, people said that a GTX 650ti wasn't powerful enough to utilise 2GB of vRAM and that the 128bit bus would bottleneck. And as I found out-it can easily use all 2GB before running into performance issues, and there are no problems at all when it comes to the vRAM.

[bogus]

The funny part is that NVIDIA sold Maxwell with the low power/tdp pitch... everyone sucked up the marketing part of it and went crazy: now graphics cards are all about power consumption, so fuck AMD.

 

Don't take me wrong NVIDIA did deliver what they promised! But this "feature" is more of a consequence of their real purpous of Maxwell - to cut costs and increase margins.

NVIDIA cheaped out on this generation, and focused only in their top tier cards: 980ti and Titan X... and even on those they managed to strap the same old cooler on it.

This was probably motivated by this delay of the process shrink, and due to AMD stance on focusing on releasing new tech, and a completly lack of respect for their client base.

[Dabombinable]

The funny part is that NVIDIA sold Maxwell with the low power/tdp pitch... everyone sucked up the marketing part of it and went crazy: now graphics cards are all about power consumption, so fuck AMD.

 

Don't take me wrong NVIDIA did deliver what they promised! But this "feature" is more of a consequence of their real purpous of Maxwell - to cut costs and increase margins.

NVIDIA cheaped out on this generation, and focused only in their top tier cards: 980ti and Titan X... and even on those they managed to strap the same old cooler on it.

This was probably motivated by this delay of the process shrink, and due to AMD stance on focusing on releasing new tech, and a completly lack of respect for their client base.

You know who else cheaped out over all of the previous generation? Gigabyte with their fucking horrible fan motors.

[patrickjp93]

You know who else cheaped out over all of the previous generation? Gigabyte with their fucking horrible fan motors.

The ones used on Windforce cards have given me no trouble.

[don_svetlio]

Uh, wrong... 256-bit bus on 5GHz GDDR5 gives you (256/8=32)*5*10^9 = 160GB/s

(128/8)*8*10^9 = 128GB/s You can work on 4GB of VRAM with both of those. AMD made it work on 160GB/s. As per who makes 8GHz GDDR5, Hynix does, and it's already been shipped out, but no one knows if any company will end up using it (Titan X 2?)

The 380 has a 176GB/s Bandwidth

The 960 has 112GB/s Bandwidth

REFERENCE - enjoy

http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/graphics/desktop/oem#

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-960/specifications