Smoking Barrels - LTT's Unnofficial Gun Club!

[IPD]

9 hours ago, fpo said:

What is it? Gel blaster? 

Yeah.  Didn't want to spend $500 on a first attempt.  I had a litany of higher-end super-soakers BITD.  Not even sure where I'd play with this thing.

[IPD]

9 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

I found semi automatic handguns overall to be an acquired taste, but that's fair.

 

I wasn't a huge fan of shooting auto handguns until my 3rd or 4th magazine.

Fully-automatic handguns are a fool's errand, imho.  They're for spray-n-pray shiens--not for real use.

 

Semi-automatic handguns are much more preferable to moon-clips, imho.  Though to be fair, I would rather put a rifle in the hands of a novice, than a handgun.  Much easier to learn, control, aim a rifle--than a handgun--at novice level.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, IPD said:

Fully-automatic handguns are a fool's errand, imho.  They're for spray-n-pray shiens--not for real use.

I think he meant auto loading meaning semi auto as slang. 

23 minutes ago, IPD said:

Semi-automatic handguns are much more preferable to moon-clips, imho.  Though to be fair, I would rather put a rifle in the hands of a novice, than a handgun.  Much easier to learn, control, aim a rifle--than a handgun--at novice level.

One reason I am disappointed in revolvers...

There was one video game (probably killzone) where when you reloaded the revolver, you swapped the whole cylinder. 

That'd be expensive to buy reloads but dang, would that be a nice gun to shoot and reload. 

[Crunchy Dragon]

54 minutes ago, fpo said:

I think he meant auto loading meaning semi auto as slang.

Correct. Auto = semi auto when I'm too lazy to type semi

 

Also the "A" in "ACP" stands for "automatic" so I'm not technically wrong....

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Correct. Auto = semi auto when I'm too lazy to type semi

 

Also the "A" in "ACP" stands for "automatic" so I'm not technically wrong....

Armor-piercing cool projectile 

[IPD]

4 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Correct. Auto = semi auto when I'm too lazy to type semi

 

Also the "A" in "ACP" stands for "automatic" so I'm not technically wrong....

Well if that's the definition of what technically qualifies--than anything NOT a Colt-brand 1911 doesn't qualify.  Just Saying.

[Crunchy Dragon]

9 hours ago, fpo said:

Armor-piercing cool projectile 

That reminds me, I still do not own any green tips. I do hear about them screwing up feed ramps and receivers though, although I am yet to properly look into it for myself O.o

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

That reminds me, I still do not own any green tips. I do hear about them screwing up feed ramps and receivers though, although I am yet to properly look into it for myself O.o

The military basically exclusively uses green tips. 

Weird that it'd mess it up... could be what they call "fuddlore" or whatever. Maybe because they're "armor piercing" when all they have is a little extra metal or something in the projectile, but not armor piercing projectiles. 

 

I got a bag of "mixed" (wolf and Norinco) green tips. They're expensive so they're my "what was that?" Ammo. 

I tested one and it definitely has a lot more power than regular 5.56/.223. 

 

 

Also I just shot my Walther PPS M2 in my weekly class, dang is it good. Super accurate, super nice. It's definitely skinny but feels very similar to the vp9 when shooting. Not as nice, but without side by side you'd say they're close. 

Vp9 is only like $700, so maybe I save extra money for one when I can have "high capacity" pistols. As for now, I'm pretty decked out. 4 mags (27 rounds- 3x 7rds 1x 6rds) flashlight, training, good holster I've been training with. 

Trainer gave me 20 bullets to go home with but I also got the hollow points at the store. I tested 4 of the Hornady something hollow points and they're nice. 

 

Oh, the PPS M2 has a short barrel so there's a ton of unburned gun powder in it. 

 

Easily shot 150~ rounds tonight. Thinking maybe 200, idk. 3 hours of class. 

[Crunchy Dragon]

18 minutes ago, fpo said:

The military basically exclusively uses green tips. 

Weird that it'd mess it up... could be what they call "fuddlore" or whatever. Maybe because they're "armor piercing" when all they have is a little extra metal or something in the projectile, but not armor piercing projectiles. 

 

I got a bag of "mixed" (wolf and Norinco) green tips. They're expensive so they're my "what was that?" Ammo.

From what I remember, the original M855 was designed to go through steel helmets in one of the World Wars. So it has some "armor piercing" capabilities, and should be a better penetrating round than your typical FMJ.

 

My "something went bump in the night" is the magazine of hollow points I keep stored in the gun. If something gets really bad, I keep 2 mags of FMJ and 2 more mags of HP staged next to the gun so I can retreat quickly and grab more if I need it, which brings me back to the idea of coupling magazines to keep more ammo on the gun at one time.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

From what I remember, the original M855 was designed to go through steel helmets in one of the World Wars. So it has some "armor piercing" capabilities, and should be a better penetrating round than your typical FMJ.

It's something like that. I don't recall the details. 

9 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

My "something went bump in the night" is the magazine of hollow points I keep stored in the gun. If something gets really bad, I keep 2 mags of FMJ and 2 more mags of HP staged next to the gun so I can retreat quickly and grab more if I need it, which brings me back to the idea of coupling magazines to keep more ammo on the gun at one time.

Rifle hollow points? 

I only have 1 pistol so now I have two strategically placed devices. 

One rifle hidden well and now the pistol hidden well on the other side of my residence. 

 

Later I will just have my pistol with me nearly 24/7. 

[Crunchy Dragon]

1 hour ago, fpo said:

Rifle hollow points?

Yee

 

I keep it loaded with Underwood Controlled Chaos, 62gr .223 Remington: https://underwoodammo.com/223-remington-62-grain-controlled-chaos/

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Yee

 

I keep it loaded with Underwood Controlled Chaos, 62gr .223 Remington: https://underwoodammo.com/223-remington-62-grain-controlled-chaos/

Ahh yeah. 

I heard those are interesting. 

I think expanding projectiles are against the Geneva convention so that's why they can't use them in the military. 

"Inhumane" ways to kill people so the ruling goes. 

 

I wonder how they fare; have you seen any jello tests or whatever they're called to see how they do? Feel like they'd just go straight through without expanding noticably, but idk. 

 

 

Also SKU...

Spoiler

 

[Crunchy Dragon]

2 hours ago, fpo said:

Ahh yeah. 

I heard those are interesting. 

I think expanding projectiles are against the Geneva convention so that's why they can't use them in the military. 

"Inhumane" ways to kill people so the ruling goes. 

 

I wonder how they fare; have you seen any jello tests or whatever they're called to see how they do? Feel like they'd just go straight through without expanding noticably, but idk.

 

I tend to buy high grain hollow points for home defense to minimize overpenetration as much as I possibly can. If it was a SHTF scenario, I'd probably go FMJ all the way.

 

Should probably get some more defensive ammo...

[IPD]

Gel blaster works great.  Cheap but effective fun.  Good idea to keep it cleaned with water after use--as I can see how silica residue will build up over time.

 

Magazine is far too tiny for my liking though.

[Crunchy Dragon]

10 minutes ago, IPD said:

Gel blaster works great.  Cheap but effective fun.  Good idea to keep it cleaned with water after use--as I can see how silica residue will build up over time.

 

Magazine is far too tiny for my liking though.

Heck yeah. Never shot gel, how much does it differ from airsoft?

 

I could have a double drum mag or even a full ammo box mounted to my gun(M240 style) and I still would not be satisfied with magazine size.

[IPD]

1 hour ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Heck yeah. Never shot gel, how much does it differ from airsoft?

 

I could have a double drum mag or even a full ammo box mounted to my gun(M240 style) and I still would not be satisfied with magazine size.

I haven't shot airsoft.  I barely remember shooting paintball.  But this is far less powerful.  It won't leave lasting marks, but it will sting if you get hit within 5 feet of the barrel.

 

Solid range.  Probably 30' with good velocity, maybe 50' ballistic.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

I could have a double drum mag or even a full ammo box mounted to my gun(M240 style) and I still would not be satisfied with magazine size.

5,000 isn't enough? lol

 

2 hours ago, IPD said:

I haven't shot airsoft.  I barely remember shooting paintball.  But this is far less powerful.  It won't leave lasting marks, but it will sting if you get hit within 5 feet of the barrel.

 

Solid range.  Probably 30' with good velocity, maybe 50' ballistic.

Airsoft is 100~200 feet max for most replicas. Maybe more like 150 max.

 

I haven't seen a mag fed gel blaster in person, but they were popular in Australia since... airsoft & paintball is illegal there. I think Rimmy Down Under or someone did a milsim event on youtube.

[Jito463]

5 minutes ago, fpo said:

5,000 isn't enough? lol

It sounds like a good start.  

[Crunchy Dragon]

43 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

It sounds like a good start.  

Magazines and ammo: the 2 things you can never have enough of.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Magazines and ammo: the 2 things you can never have enough of.

Interestingly, I've been finding less ammo is better.
For airsoft I used to carry a TON of magazines; maybe it's because a speed loader broke so it'd only ever load like 30 bbs, but I got a new speed loader and I carry 3 mags of 100~120 rounds each and I found that to be plenty.
In super long engagements, I'll have time to reload my mags if I need to. A long time airsoft friend found he didn't need that much ammo either, but he's also an ex infantry marine that has been deployed so we might be the exception with 10+ years of airsoft experience. I've been thinking of just grabbing two high caps (300~ rounds each) and going out with scarcely any gear.

 

I also just got a GBBR (gas blowback rifle) which only holds 35 bbs in a magazine but simulates all the functions of a real M4 (recoil, last round bolt hold open, bolt catch, safety, forward assist) and I hardly used all that much ammo. Sample size of 1 day, so we'll see.

 

As for real life, there was a police report or something I heard about where an officer shot a violent suspect 40 times and the dude was still alive despite the report not detailing any influence of drugs. Where some drugs may make people feel no pain & become psuedo super human so to speak.

 

Not to tell you what to do, but many FBI reports say 7 rounds is just enough or the median or average for many encounters of defense, but it'd suck to be the exception when you forgot your spare mag at home that day.

Anyone here practice force on force? IE paintball, airsoft, nerf, simunitions, laser tag, so on?
I'd be curious to hear your use of ammo and whether you think you have "too much" sometimes or that you commonly find yourself needing only a little bit when you engage effectively.

[Crunchy Dragon]

6 minutes ago, fpo said:

I'd be curious to hear your use of ammo

I hoard it and sometimes shoot it

7 minutes ago, fpo said:

whether you think you have "too much" sometimes

Not so far, I actually don't have "a lot" right now. Around 800 rounds of Tula .223 for the range, probably down to about a 100-160 rounds of FMJ 5.56, 120 rounds of hollow points(mix of .223 and 5.56).

 

60 rounds of .223 HP and 200 rounds of M855 on the way, so in a bit it'll come to around 1300 rounds all together, and I'll probably burn through easily 200 rounds of Tula alone next time I hit the range.

 

I currently have probably 20ish 30 round magazines, with 10 more on the way(it was a good bundle deal with that aforementioned M855). Magazines are useful to me particularly because I can keep the home defense gun staged with ample supply should things get really bad, and because reloading magazines at the range is fun, but is also annoying.

 

20 minutes ago, fpo said:

Not to tell you what to do, but many FBI reports say 7 rounds is just enough or the median or average for many encounters of defense, but it'd suck to be the exception when you forgot your spare mag at home that day.

Correct, and correct. Personally, I tend to plan for the spot just above the worst-case scenario. I don't ever expect to(and I hope never do) deal with an intruder in my home(much less multiple intruders), but I still keep the home defense gun with a fully loaded magazine in case it happens.

 

Ultimately, it's a "no harm in being prepared" mindset; I'm just a little bit of a prepper. Not one of the crazies who goes on about government breakdown or the world ending, just a normal guy who knows crap can happen, crap will happen, and would prefer being ready when it does.

 

I'm also not telling anyone what to do, everything I say here is how I personally approach things.

28 minutes ago, fpo said:

Anyone here practice force on force? IE paintball, airsoft, nerf, simunitions, laser tag, so on?

I would love to get into airsoft still. For something like that, I would be more likely to carry as little extra gear with me as possible just so I'd be able to move more quickly and effectively.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

I hoard it and sometimes shoot it

I was mostly meaning about in engagement hahaha.

3 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Not so far, I actually don't have "a lot" right now. Around 800 rounds of Tula .223 for the range, probably down to about a 100-160 rounds of FMJ 5.56, 120 rounds of hollow points(mix of .223 and 5.56).

Yeah, looking a bit low on your end.
With 40 mags, (1,200 rounds) you'll definitely need a lot more "combat" rounds.

I'm under equipped more or less haha.

3 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

I'll probably burn through easily 200 rounds of Tula alone next time I hit the range.

yeah 120~200 is what I go through every range trip for rifles.

Pistols, I haven't checked yet.

3 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

because reloading magazines at the range is fun, but is also annoying.

Check out the magpump. It's cool and only like $150.

3 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Correct, and correct. Personally, I tend to plan for the spot just above the worst-case scenario. I don't ever expect to(and I hope never do) deal with an intruder in my home(much less multiple intruders), but I still keep the home defense gun with a fully loaded magazine in case it happens.

Best practice fighting in the dark.

3 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

I would love to get into airsoft still. For something like that, I would be more likely to carry as little extra gear with me as possible just so I'd be able to move more quickly and effectively.

Get a chest rig and a good replica.

What kind of rifle and pistol do you like? I can see what I can help you get into for force on force training depending on your budget you'd want to do.
Don't wanna dox you, but I'm assuming you live in the US and are somewhere close enough to an outdoor airsoft field.
Indoor airsoft has become sportorized and toxic.

[vf1000ride]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:25 PM, Crunchy Dragon said:

That reminds me, I still do not own any green tips. I do hear about them screwing up feed ramps and receivers though, although I am yet to properly look into it for myself O.o

 

On 8/12/2022 at 10:55 PM, Crunchy Dragon said:

From what I remember, the original M855 was designed to go through steel helmets in one of the World Wars. So it has some "armor piercing" capabilities, and should be a better penetrating round than your typical FMJ.

 

My "something went bump in the night" is the magazine of hollow points I keep stored in the gun. If something gets really bad, I keep 2 mags of FMJ and 2 more mags of HP staged next to the gun so I can retreat quickly and grab more if I need it, which brings me back to the idea of coupling magazines to keep more ammo on the gun at one time.

I would say that SS109/M855 will not wear out anything that the standard 55gr round wouldn't wear out.  The outer jacket of the bullet on the SS109/M855 is copper and just as soft as a standard lead core bullet.  The military would never approve something that would unnecessarily wear out a firearm faster than needed.

 

The SS109 round wasn't adopted until 1980, so not really a world war issue.  Per some reference material I could find, "The SS109 used a 62 gr full metal jacket bullet with a seven grain mild steel tip to move the center of gravity rearward, increasing flight stability and thereby the chances of striking the target tip-first at longer ranges, in part to meet a requirement that the bullet be able to penetrate through one side of a WWII U.S. M1 helmet at 800 meters"

[vf1000ride]

My latest piece.  A late 1950's production Colt Official Police in .22LR.  Needs a little bit of finish conservation but it came with the original serial # matched box.

[Crunchy Dragon]

On 8/13/2022 at 11:46 PM, fpo said:

Best practice fighting in the dark.

Yup, I have done several walkthroughs of my home with the gun(single man room clearing is suicide, this is just so I know how to move in the house with the gun). I mounted a nifty flashlight so I can see as well, because this house gets dark at night.

On 8/13/2022 at 11:46 PM, fpo said:

What kind of rifle and pistol do you like? I can see what I can help you get into for force on force training depending on your budget you'd want to do.

Don't wanna dox you, but I'm assuming you live in the US and are somewhere close enough to an outdoor airsoft field.

Indoor airsoft has become sportorized and toxic.

I like the AR platform a lot so far, I don't have enough pistol experience to tell you for sure what I do and don't like. I've shot .22LR revolvers, .38SPL revolvers, and an FNP-9.

 

I've not actually looked around for airsoft fields near me, but I can take a peek after work today.