Hardware Canucks Gets Thermaltake's Side Of The Story

[Hulk]

this is the internet, if you think for yourself you are part of the problem.  that's why:

 

Apple = bad

Nvidia is destroying gaming with gameworks

MS = money hungry data overlord

HP = cheap shit

the human eye can see infinite frames (my personal favorite)

the 970 only has 3.5G of ram

gaben can say or do nothing wrong.

How is that relevant to what I said?

[TheProfosist]

I think that was the whole point, making these designs more accessible to people.

Op i always thought this was stupid from the beginning i even said it in the other thread, they look similar but they aren't direct copies and if you have done research or even just an eye for detail you will know the Thermaltake ones to the Caselabs and Fractal.

No one complained about Nanoxia....

na-ds2-1-large.jpg

I have a Nanoxia and they are different from fractal. I would say loser to an improved Antec truthfully. Still not as well designed as a Fractal but better built. My DS6 has 1mm steel all the way around!

Oh lord cases aren't really that original, I mean seriously, take a black box and slap some designs on it and call it original, I guarantee you that some one else has thought of that same idea somewhere else at some different point and time. It's only a matter a time before cases start looking similar to each other. In all honesty there is only a limited number of times one can make a box look pretty before others start copying your style. As a person who does a lot of graphics and art in Photoshop and Gimp, believe me, I know.

This is why you employ industrial designers to avoid this issue. Create an image unique to you company that has the features customers want and well as the ones you think they need.

Cases will only become all the same if everyone started liking the exact same style. Takes vary greatly he'll even for me they do depending on the use.

[mr moose]

How is that relevant to what I said?

 

Everything I listed is the group think on the internet, people believe all that to be true without thinking for themselves.  Anything linus says is automatically on the list for much of the LTT forum. Thus that list is supporting evidence that it is internet mentality that spurs not thinking for oneself.

[TheProfosist]

Everything I listed is the group think on the internet, people believe all that to be true without thinking for themselves. Anything linus says is automatically on the list for much of the LTT forum. Thus that list is supporting evidence that it is internet mentality that spurs not thinking for oneself.

Most of that as outright listed I don't agree with. People just like joining bandwagons. Via the Internet it's very hard for me to get stuff into that mod mentality but it's happened one in person. I caught myself and I was all "dammit! Really?"

[ErickS89]

What's with all the Linus parroting? Before the WAN show last week, everyone was raising pitchforks, but now, everyone is alright with it because Linus said so? How come no one is thinking for themselves?

Welcome to the glorious information super highway that is the internet!

 

Honestly, who cares? The insides are completely different from Caselabs but it's the shell that counts right?   However, the side panel looks like it could twist 'n flex easily and that's not good...

 

Caselabs is still the best place to go if you want a badass case, stop being cheap and buy a good case "it'll last pretty much as long as you're doing PC builds"  So $1000+ isn't that much if you look at it that way.

[mr moose]

Most of that as outright listed I don't agree with. People just like joining bandwagons. Via the Internet it's very hard for me to get stuff into that mod mentality but it's happened one in person. I caught myself and I was all "dammit! Really?"

 

I think individually if we were presented with the facts and spoke oneon one most people would understand why that list is wrong, but alas, mob mentality and fear of being ostracized will go along way.

[JAKEBAB]

I have a Nanoxia and they are different from fractal. I would say loser to an improved Antec truthfully. Still not as well designed as a Fractal but better built. My DS6 has 1mm steel all the way around!

This is why you employ industrial designers to avoid this issue. Create an image unique to you company that has the features customers want and well as the ones you think they need.

Cases will only become all the same if everyone started liking the exact same style. Takes vary greatly he'll even for me they do depending on the use.

Yes but it looks extremely similar to Fractal and that is what people have been complaining about with Thermaltake, in everyone of the threads that i saw there was no internal shots just external.

[Shaade]

While I don't particularly care about this specific incident, I do hate when people defend products that are practically ripped off to the degree of just switching the branding with statements like, "Oh, but then everyone copies 'x' ancient product because it's the same basic shape/function." etc.

-Piss off. You know damn well that the degree of direct duplication here extends well beyond the basic outlining shape/function of the product. It's practically identical in every meaningful aspect.

[cesrai]

This thread is interesting.

[Steve N. Mavronis]

All ideas are spawned from past ideas. If you have a good idea people will imitate it and you end up with similar styled products at lower prices. That's what a good idea or concept does! That's a win-win for consumers across the board. People used to rag on Microsoft saying they copied Apple's graphical icon based user interface. In fact Xerox had the first GUI so who copied who? That form of "tech evolution" will always be the way it is in some form or another and that's a good thing.

 

Yes, the Thermaltake cases are less expensive than some other brands because they use sheet steel and plastic, instead of aluminum and other premium materials. Guess what? It's called marketing your products for a particular audience. Buyers with loads of cash will spend hundreds of dollars on an uber indestructible case. Those like me with a limited case budget look to get more bang for the buck with sub-$100 cases and spend more on the best GPU. If Thermaltake made their cases out of cardboard to sell them for $20, people would be complaining even louder. But in a way those people have done nothing but help them get more product attention and more sales, because in the end what's in people's pocketbooks matters.

 

For example the Phanteks Evolv line of similar cases has a good marketing spread for all budgets - The $180 aluminum Evolv ATX, the $130 aluminum Evolv (mATX) , and the $70 steel (and some plastic) Evolv ITX. I'm having a hard time deciding between the Evolv ITX and the Evolv because the later is just as the edge of my financial grasp, no matter what it's constructed of. But if I think about it where else can you get a case with 1/8" thick aluminum panels for $130? Corsair sells steel and plastic cases for more than that!

 

These other specialty high-end PC case companies have no real right to complain because they've priced themselves out of competition. In reality they never had the budget conscious consumer sold to them anyway. It's not hurting them. Rich people won't buy middle-class budget cases. It's helping the rest of us who have less money to spend overall and could never afford their products without becoming a State Lottery winner. My advice to these other companies is stop pricing yourselves into a corner. Think outside the box with products that appeal to the masses at large. That's where the money is you want.

[GoodBytes]

All ideas are spawned from past ideas. If you have a good idea people will imitate it and you end up with similar styled products at lower prices. That's what a good idea or concept does! That's a win-win for consumers across the board. People used to rag on Microsoft saying they copied Apple's graphical icon based user interface. In fact Xerox had the first GUI so who copied who? That form of "tech evolution" will always be the way it is in some form or another and that's a good thing.

Only if if you make the idea your own. Meaning you add your own take on it. Even when Samsung copied Apple design they are not starting their own photocopier. They are making it their own. Thermal take looks like they stole the molds and machineries from Fractal Design, and making the, with their name on it. Huge difference!.

Make the product more affordable, is not a reason to do exact copies. Simple as that.

[Steve N. Mavronis]

Thermaltake looks like they stole the molds and machineries from Fractal Design, and making the, with their name on it. Huge difference!.

 

But they didn't ^^.

 

When you come down to it, PC cases are always metal frames covered in metal or plastic. They have to look similar with established specs in order to fit an ATX, mATX, or an mITX motherboard, standard size PSU and maximum length GPU, fans, coolers, radiators, etc. These specs kind of lock you into a universal design pattern. The first company to use a pyramid triangular design is going to be falsely compared to Alienware's new Area 51 case.

 

Some cases may look very similar on the outside but on the inside there are always subtle differences beyond how parts fit onto the frame. So you can't just judge a case by its cover. I don't see anyone sueing TT because they legally can't. They would have had to steal their company identifiable branding, logos, etc. There is no patent on a rectangular box or metal support frame. Features and shapes are up for grabs. You go with what's popular that consumers want. Over time WE made them do it.

[spartaman64]

its ok if cases look similar but its not if they look perfectly identical

[Guest Kloaked]

I think that was the whole point, making these designs more accessible to people. 

 

Op i always thought this was stupid from the beginning i even said it in the other thread, they look similar but they aren't direct copies and if you have done research or even just an eye for detail you will know the Thermaltake ones to the Caselabs and Fractal.

 

No one complained about Nanoxia....

 

The argument is that, if Nanoxia was even first, Fractal changed enough for their cases to be pointed out when right next to each other.

 

CaseLabs is upset because of what happened between their product manager and a CaseLabs employee.

[Steve N. Mavronis]

Not PC specific but this is an analogy of what you can't do with ANY product. Guitar effects pedals are just PCB circuits inside aluminum enclosures, much like a miniature PC case. DIY people  clone pedals all time time, for self use and profit. Circuits are rarely patented or copyrighted, because they are all based on and evolved a prior electrical circuit design. Unless you can generate a never heard before guitar sound through an effects pedal you can't say it's uniquely yours. 

 

MXR (Dunlop) makes an effects pedal called a MXR Micro Amp. A DIY hobbyist made a clone of it called HWA Myclone Amp. Even though inside his PCB looks different, can you see what he did wrong on the outside? It's not that the enclosure shapes are basically the same. They are sort of industry standard. Logo branding is the legal problem and he was asked to cease and desist. - He complains on a DIY forum, "I'm based in the Netherlands, but I just received a phone call from a representative of Dunlop, asking me politely to stop making the Myclone Amp with this look, 'to protect trademarks, blablabla...'."

 

 

Now I also cloned a manufacturer's effects pedal, the DOD Overdrive Preamp 250. I called it the Neo-Classic 741 Overdrive. Although I've gotten hundreds of requests, I never sold any of the three I made and gave two away to friends. It has the same circuit but I etched my own PCB layout and 'branded' it differently on the outside with a thin UV etched aluminum label panel. In my case, the manufacturer DOD (DigiTech) contacted me with praise and sent me four of their new $100 apiece vintage reissue pedals! Now that's the way to do it.

 

[TheProfosist]

Yes but it looks extremely similar to Fractal and that is what people have been complaining about with Thermaltake, in everyone of the threads that i saw there was no internal shots just external.

It looks familiar, not extremely. The whole front design is different at a minimum. Also a door only opens for the 5.25 bays kinda like an Antec sonata rather than the whole thing. If you read my post before the one you quoted is goes over copying a product's ID.

[Robin88]

I get that copying happens in the industry, that I think isn't so much the issue as is the lack of trying to make their designs in any way unique, sure Fractal "copied" Antec way back when, but Fractal at least made it different enough that everyone knew who had made what, in this case unless you know what you're looking for you wouldn't know which was which and that's deceitful and misleading.

Same with CaseLabs, yes they "copied" Mountain Mods, but again CaseLabs made it different enough from what MM did that you know who made it, ThermalTake however did nothing to make it uniquely theirs and made an inferior product to boot.

As Corsair George pointed out, it's flattering to have a design used by other manufacturers, it means the design is better than anything that came before, but you should draw the line when you can longer differentiate your design from the one you're aping.

I wouldn't touch ThermalTacky products anyway, nothing they make is of the kind of quality imo that is worth spending any amount of money on, and I would rather save up to buy the real McCoy than some cheap cack like what TT makes.

Again all of this is my personal opinion, and you can disagree with me if you want, that's fine, I'll still feel however that making something unique should have been TT's goal, instead of doing what they've done here.

Edit:

CaseLabs could have been more mature about it though, the whole crying like a baby about it is very unprofessional, and has probably helped TT's image more than they deserve.

[TroubleKlef]

Another example could be RAM modules. All of them are pretty much defined in dimensions by length and by width (akin to the whole "black box" argument) but I don't get confused which manufacturer makes which RAM. I see really sharp blade edges on the fins? Ripjaws. I see the triangle shaped heat fins? A-Data. I see smooth metal with LED lighting? Corsair Platinum. Just because you are confined to certain dimensions doesn't mean you can't be unique.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Another example could be RAM modules. All of them are pretty much defined in dimensions by length and by width (akin to the whole "black box" argument) but I don't get confused which manufacturer makes which RAM. I see really sharp blade edges on the fins? Ripjaws. I see the triangle shaped heat fins? A-Data. I see smooth metal with LED lighting? Corsair Platinum. Just because you are confined to certain dimensions doesn't mean you can't be unique.

 

Uhuh the last thing I want to see TT do is a rectangular case with triangular spikes protruding from the top. That would look horrendous.  

[TroubleKlef]

Uhuh the last thing I want to see TT do is a rectangular case with triangular spikes protruding from the top. That would look horrendous.  

 

Judging by TT current design team, they probably would just steal it.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Judging by TT current design team, they probably would just steal it.

 

I'm glad they took inspiration from this:

 

Instead of this: 

 

TT's design team has got very good taste if you ask me 

[Crosses1901]

I didn't agree with Linus on his opinion on the matter, to be honest, he kinda sounded a bit of a pompous know-it-all actually... My reasoning for the uproar is not only the fact that they blatantly ripped off the outer design of these cases (as well as other items and accessories), they flat out denied it. Jayztwocents apparently spoke to them and they denied any wrongdoing.

 

To be fair, they didn't copy the internals for those cases, and actually had some good ideas included in them.

 

I think it's more about their intentions behind what they did. 

 

I live in Hong Kong, and people here ALWAYS look for bargains. So while Caselabs doesn't really have a market here, Fractal kinda actually does. Thermaltake just stole their share.

 

They copied the designs for a graphics card waterblock, a full card design, problem is, the VRMs aren't cooled on their version, there just a piece of plastic covering them, which restricts even more air from cooling them. That's trouble.

 

And what about their all-aluminum radiators? You know that's bad.

 

This is all bad business if you think about it.

 

No honor in business I guess.

 

I hate them because of that. Companies like Thermaltake shouldn't exist when they are that dangerous to both the manufacturers AND consumers.

[TAK]

.

[GoodBytes]

Is it just me or is CaseLabs just so overrated, I don't like the LOOK of any of their cases and they are way too fucking big. Great for water cooling, but I don't like building servers, I like minimalistic design, speaking of which...

Fractal Design is fucking brilliant (and no, it's not cos they are Swedish, in fact I should hate them since I'm Finnish, but...) and copying them is a good choice, at least it will be a bigger market. However, why buy TT, when you can get the Fractal for the same price and availability shouldn't be a huge issue from the looks of it.

Sadly, it seams that the market is pushing for extra large cases, over the top water cooling system, and support more HDDs than Linus 24 SSD in RAID thingy box, large CPU cutout hole, so big you can fit an ITX board, because this is what reviewers want to see. Because they think that is the what a good case should have, when in reality it should be on fan placement , minimize case size, and ultra quiet operation.

[Steve N. Mavronis]

1. Just make good stuff people want and they will buy it.

2. People want budget versions of more expensive items.

3. Don't make it hard for people to afford your stuff.

4. Consumers a smart enough to decide what's best for them.