upgrading i5-2500 to i7-4790K. Does it make sense?

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

I'm planning some upgrades to my PC (specs in profile). New case, new case fans, CPU cooler, you know how it goes. I'd like to use that opportunity to replace the 4 year old i5-2500 (non-K) with something slightly more up to date. It's a couple generations old after all.

Seeing as I don't want to spend hundreds on DDR4 when I already have an excellent DDR3 kit, X99, 2011-3 etc are just not going to happen.

I was thinking about getting a 4790K and an MSI Z97 Gaming 7, but am not sure if the performance benefit would justify the cost. With the added cost of needing a new motherboard, I'm looking at 500 EUR just to upgrade the CPU really.

Will I see enough improvement to justify the cost, would I be better off with something slower (4690 perhaps?) or should I just stick with the old CPU for another year or two?

I don't have the impression that the 2500 is really bottlenecking my PC yet, but then again it's hard to tell and the rest of the components aren't ever working hard.

Second question : I stuck with Sandy Bridge because Ivy and Haswell quickly got a bad rep due to high temperatures. The last couple of days I looked for a clear answer on Haswell-R's thermal behaviour, but only find contradicting posts depending on which source I read. Does it need Delidding for a mild overclock (OC Genie) ?

[EMENCII]

- snip -

Dont delid unless you NEED the 10°C less temps...

You would see a really good "improvement" in rendering and video editing, going with the i7 4790(k), but as for gaming, id not suggest buying even the i5...

[patrickjp93]

Why would you when Desktop Broadwell K is just a couple months away? Hold out for the 5770k and watch for the overclocking numbers before you jump. Also, yes, Haswell and Ivy are hot due to poor thermal contact, Haswell especially since it has 4 ALUs per core vs. Ivy and Sandy's 3.

[Si3Rra_7]

Wait for Skylake , broadwell will be short term , and the last ddr3 mainstream platform( according to rumors . I have a i5-2310 and im waiting.

[Hieb]

I would expect a 4790K to be solid for a good 5 years, and as EMENCII said, it would be leaps and bounds better for a lot of stuff besides gaming.

 

Direct performance improvement in games might be subpar depending on your CPU and GPU configuration and the settings you're running in games... if you wanna play modern games at 120/144Hz for example, an i7-4790K is a worthy investment IMO. Also you don't need to delid. Devil's Canyon improved temperatures significantly. It's still not as good as Sandy Bridge, but you slap a $30 heatsink on the 4790K and you can push 4.6GHz.

[patrickjp93]

I would expect a 4790K to be solid for a good 5 years, and as EMENCII said, it would be leaps and bounds better for a lot of stuff besides gaming.

 

Direct performance improvement in games might be subpar depending on your CPU and GPU configuration and the settings you're running in games... if you wanna play modern games at 120/144Hz for example, an i7-4790K is a worthy investment IMO. Also you don't need to delid. Devil's Canyon improved temperatures significantly. It's still not as good as Sandy Bridge, but you slap a $30 heatsink on the 4790K and you can push 4.6GHz.

My dad got an unlucky super hot 4790k. It's not universally true that DC improved temps. Only on average is this true. At 1.2volts and 4.6 GHz AIDA 64's FPU stress test pushes into the 90s under an EK full copper water block, Gelid Extreme, and a 480mm Swiftech radiator. We had to delid, melt some extra pure copper shavings into the IHS, put Coolaboratory Liquid Pro between the die and IHS, lap the IHS, and remount to get temps back down into the 60s on the same settings. With EK's Indigo XS TIM we brought it down to 54 in the stress test.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

That 5770 sounds nice indeed.  Perhaps I should spend more time looking around for what's available even when I don't need it.  Then again that would probably cost more money because I'd be upgrading stuff every other week.

 

120Hz isn't going to happen anytime soon, I'm still perfectly happy with my 60Hz 1080p monitors.  I do max out my graphics settings though.  Dual 770s should be able to handle my games (GTA, The Crew, nothing fancy really)

 

If I have to wait, perhaps it's time to ditch the auto-overclock and get my hands (or at least my keyboard) dirty.  If the motherboard's OC Genie already boosts my CPU to 3.8, surely there is room for a little more.  Plenty of thermal headroom left, I have yet to see the CPU pass 60°C.

[patrickjp93]

That 5770 sounds nice indeed.  Perhaps I should spend more time looking around for what's available even when I don't need it.  Then again that would probably cost more money because I'd be upgrading stuff every other week.

 

120Hz isn't going to happen anytime soon, I'm still perfectly happy with my 60Hz 1080p monitors.  I do max out my graphics settings though.  Dual 770s should be able to handle my games (GTA, The Crew, nothing fancy really)

 

If I have to wait, perhaps it's time to ditch the auto-overclock and get my hands (or at least my keyboard) dirty.  If the motherboard's OC Genie already boosts my CPU to 3.8, surely there is room for a little more.  Plenty of thermal headroom left, I have yet to see the CPU pass 60°C.

Oh yeah. You can likely push it to 4.3 if you try, beyond if your cooler is good.

[Syfes]

If I have to wait, perhaps it's time to ditch the auto-overclock and get my hands (or at least my keyboard) dirty.  If the motherboard's OC Genie already boosts my CPU to 3.8, surely there is room for a little more.  Plenty of thermal headroom left, I have yet to see the CPU pass 60°C.

 

If the primary use of your system is gaming, really the performance benefits are going to be relatively low. Raw CPU power doesn't really shine unless you have workloads that need it. Still that non-K CPU though, if you had a 2500k I would suggest investing in a decent AIO watercooler and overclock the sh*t out of that oldie

[Hieb]

My dad got an unlucky super hot 4790k. It's not universally true that DC improved temps. Only on average is this true. At 1.2volts and 4.6 GHz AIDA 64's FPU stress test pushes into the 90s under an EK full copper water block, Gelid Extreme, and a 480mm Swiftech radiator. We had to delid, melt some extra pure copper shavings into the IHS, put Coolaboratory Liquid Pro between the die and IHS, lap the IHS, and remount to get temps back down into the 60s on the same settings. With EK's Indigo XS TIM we brought it down to 54 in the stress test.

 

ouch >_<

[Faa]

I don't have the impression that the 2500 is really bottlenecking my PC yet, but then again it's hard to tell and the rest of the components aren't ever working hard.

If your CPU isn't bottlenecking your GPU there's just no point in upgrading to a better CPU, a better CPU can't make the difference if the GPU is the limiting factor. Anyways monitoring a CPU bottleneck is quite easy, just turn Vsync off and monitor your GPU usages. If they're below 99% eg 80% it's a cpu bottleneck (slightly). At 99% all the time = gpu bottleneck -> GPU at its best performance. You judge by yourself if your GPU is enough or not, if it's not you upgrade it.

Nobody here exactly can tell you if you should upgrade to a 4790K, I suggest finding it out by yourself and if you are CPU limited and you want more FPS, a 4790K can OC to 4.6GHz orsomething that would be like a 50% gain in singlethreaded/4-core performance.

[i_build_nanosuits]

If your CPU isn't bottlenecking your GPU there's just no point in upgrading to a better CPU, a better CPU can't make the difference if the GPU is the limiting factor. Anyways monitoring a CPU bottleneck is quite easy, just turn Vsync off and monitor your GPU usages. If they're below 99% eg 80% it's a cpu bottleneck (slightly). At 99% all the time = gpu bottleneck -> GPU at its best performance. You judge by yourself if your GPU is enough or not, if it's not you upgrade it.

Nobody here exactly can tell you if you should upgrade to a 4790K, I suggest finding it out by yourself and if you are CPU limited and you want more FPS, a 4790K can OC to 4.6GHz orsomething that would be like a 50% gain in singlethreaded/4-core performance.

good post. i agree.

If you're running an high end card at 1080p the CPU is likely to be your limiting factor in some games...just monitor GPU load as @Faa said to see if it's the case in your favorite games and see what kind of benefit a stronger CPU would bring you.

[asusfan]

The 4790k devils canyon is a lot better temps and overclocking then the older version, so if going for a new intel i7 cpu now get devils canyon version.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Assetto Corsa, 1920x1080 with ALL graphics settings maximized. (16x Anisotropic filtering, 4x AA, all detail sliders set to maximum). Vsync off, as indicated by the 116FPS indicated on the bottom of the screen.

Here's what my AIDA64 is telling me :

(Top section is CPU data, bottom is GPU)

The CPU is running at a constant 3.8GHz and hovers around 70-75% all the time, with 2 cores going anywhere between 85 and 95% (at 90% the bar turns dark red)

The GTX 770s (2x MSI N700 4GD5/OC in SLI) are running at 80-85% all the time ... but at frequencies anywhere between 700 and 900 MHz. During loading screens they do hit the usual 1175 MHz maximum, so it looks like the GPUs simply throttle down due to a bottleneck.

If I turn the SLI off, I do max out the one active graphics card. 80FPS with 99% GPU usage at the full 1175 MHz and 70+°C. It'll eventually reach 80°C if I would let it run longer, but I wasn't going to wait for that.

If this isn't a CPU problem, I don't know what it is. RAM and data transfer can't be an issue.

[i_build_nanosuits]

The GTX 770s (2x MSI N700 4GD5/OC in SLI) are running at 80-85% all the time ...

If this isn't a CPU problem, I don't know what it is. RAM and data transfer can't be an issue.

well there you have it...in this game a new cpu could net you at least 15 to 20% increase in framerates and probably more than that if you consider extra clockspeed...IF the lower load on the gpu's is not caused by SLI performance issue.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

IF the lower load on the gpu's is not caused by SLI performance issue.

That is the million 600 dollar question, of course.  So far I haven't been able to max the cards outside of Furmark and Valley.

[Faa]

That is the million 600 dollar question, of course.  So far I haven't been able to max the cards outside of Furmark and Valley.

The GPU being throttled down at 80-85% usage has little to do with a CPU bottleneck. If you have MSI afterburner, raise the temp target to 95° (no it won't hit 95° - long story just try it you'll see), that should fix the GPU throttling. Try monitoring it with the overlays MSI afterburner offers, just in the monitoring tab, check GPU1 usage and GPU2 Usage, so you can monitor the temps while playing a game.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Apparently that did the trick, I now do indeed get the full 99% GPU usage @ 1175MHz during races.  CPU usage is still roughly the same, but the framerates are near the 140 range now.  Thanks for the tip !

Even though it won't make a blind bit of difference once I turn the Vsync back on, at least now I know that the CPU isn't bottlenecking the entire PC.  So basically as long as I don't start rendering, editing movies or switch to 4K, the 2500 should be good for a while longer.

 

After watching the power limit slider rise to 111% when I adjusted the temperature target, I did search whether that was safe or not and ended up in a thread on overclock.net.  So basically it was throttling down because of the power limit?  If that's the case, then why was the single card able to run all-out with a 100% limit?

[i_build_nanosuits]

Apparently that did the trick, I now do indeed get the full 99% GPU usage @ 1175MHz during races. 

I know that the CPU isn't bottlenecking the entire PC.  So basically as long as I don't start rendering, editing movies or switch to 4K, the 2500 should be good for a while longer.

rendering video games at 4K is not any harder than 720p for your CPU, it's your graphics cards that takes all the load of rendering all those extra pixels...therefore you are much less likely to encounter cpu restrictions at such resolutions because 99%+ of the time your GPU's will be the limiting factor even with dual GTX980 overclocked balls to the walls if you start cranking the settings you'll quickly run out of gpu horsepower in many games...unless you shoot for 30FPS but that's another story.

[Fate]

Apparently that did the trick, I now do indeed get the full 99% GPU usage @ 1175MHz during races.  CPU usage is still roughly the same, but the framerates are near the 140 range now.  Thanks for the tip !

Even though it won't make a blind bit of difference once I turn the Vsync back on, at least now I know that the CPU isn't bottlenecking the entire PC.  So basically as long as I don't start rendering, editing movies or switch to 4K, the 2500 should be good for a while longer.

 

After watching the power limit slider rise to 111% when I adjusted the temperature target, I did search whether that was safe or not and ended up in a thread on overclock.net.  So basically it was throttling down because of the power limit?  If that's the case, then why was the single card able to run all-out with a 100% limit?

Actually if you switched to 4k you would be able to keep your i5-2500 for longer as CPU starts to become irrelevant at higher resolutions compared to 1080p.

[cooperb21]

For whats its worth i5-2500 is minimum system requirements for witcher 3....

 

So take that as a sign if your cpu or gpu is just reaching min now and not recommended.  

[FellTheSky]

i own a 2500k at 4.5ghz and if skylake doesnt bring any noticeable improvements i will just buy a used 3770k. I dont see myself needing any of the haswell platform improvements