Aww, how cute, Wired was feeling left out (#GamerGate)

[HippY]

@DigitalHermit

And here is the point why this whole thing started not to make any sense for me

there was a movement against the curroption in journalism, gaming in our case

But how does feminism comes here?

i mean the problem here was that a person used her sexuality to get articles of her game...

And this thread is mixed with women in the gaming community??

Yes, that is an issue, but as most of the gamers are 14 children and nerds, it is not going to change unless those children grows up fo non nerds.

but how is it connected to journalism?

[Trik'Stari]

@DigitalHermit

And here is the point why this whole thing started not to make any sense for me

there was a movement against the curroption in journalism, gaming in our case

But how does feminism comes here?

i mean the problem here was that a person used her sexuality to get articles of her game...

And this thread is mixed with women in the gaming community??

Yes, that is an issue, but as most of the gamers are 14 children and nerds, it is not going to change unless those children grows up fo non nerds.

but how is it connected to journalism?

Feminism comes in because Sarkeesian mistakes people hating her, for sexism. That or she's so shallow, self absorsbed, dimented, and insecure that she has to make a big fuss over feminism and "bigotry" to take the attention away from the "five guys burgers and fries" thing

[DigitalHermit]

@DigitalHermit

And here is the point why this whole thing started not to make any sense for me

there was a movement against the curroption in journalism, gaming in our case

But how does feminism comes here?

i mean the problem here was that a person used her sexuality to get articles of her game...

And this thread is mixed with women in the gaming community??

Yes, that is an issue, but as most of the gamers are 14 children and nerds, it is not going to change unless those children grows up fo non nerds.

but how is it connected to journalism?

 

My thoughts exactly... If we look back at the whole narrative, the 'games media' suddenly labeled gamers as misogynist for calling out key people like Quinn and Sharkeesian...

 

Quinn was in it from the very start... Sharkeesian, from my understanding (as I do not have a full view on things, and things developed way too fast for me), jumped into the fray (or was dragged in sometime very early)... Now, Sharkeesian is someone I would call a "pop culture feminist"... Her agenda/schtick is focused on political correctness and 'feminism in gaming'... Then there's everyone else (in both camps)...

 

Throw everything into the blender that is the internet, and you end up with a mess that GamerGate is today...

 

And no, not all gamers are children and nerds depending on your operational definition of 'gamer'...

[LAwLz]

@DigitalHermit

And here is the point why this whole thing started not to make any sense for me

there was a movement against the curroption in journalism, gaming in our case

But how does feminism comes here?

i mean the problem here was that a person used her sexuality to get articles of her game...

And this thread is mixed with women in the gaming community??

Yes, that is an issue, but as most of the gamers are 14 children and nerds, it is not going to change unless those children grows up fo non nerds.

but how is it connected to journalism?

I explained why feminism got brought in earlier in the thread.

 

 

It originally started with Zoe Quinn who were sleeping with judges to get awards for her crappy "game", trying to shut down an organization trying to help female developers, scamming money from people by saying they were donating to a Game Jam but the money actually went straight into her own PayPal account and also using her network of friends to censor anyone trying to talk about her. This made people go "wait a minute... The gaming press are a bunch of douchebags reporting on whatever fits their own agenda. They only report bad things about people they dislike, and ignore to report on bad things their friends does".

 

As an example, have you read any of those really bad things Zoe did? Did you ever hear about 4chan, Reddit and a few other sites raising something like 70,000 dollars to the organization trying to help female developers? None of the big sites reported on it. That's why people say this is about ethics in the gaming press. Because Zoe is a woman we had people like Anita take her side and with that came all the arguments about Anita being a terrible person (which have been going on far longer than GamerGate) and that just added more fuel to the "it's about harassment of women, not gaming journalism".

Zoe, Anita and many others are claiming to be harassed because they are women or feminists. A lot of news outlets are putting a lot of emphasis on "these are WOMEN being harassed", and that is the only reason why feminism is involved.

My guess is that being a woman is such a big part of feminists' identity that if you attack them for being a bad person, they see that as an attack on being a woman, and therefore claim that it is sexist. That's why the #NotYourShield hashtag was made, to prove that there are minorities and women on the GamerGate side. This is not white male gamers vs women like the media tries to make it out to be. It is gamers (of all races, genders and sexualities) vs people who are calling them horrible things.

As soon as you try to accuse someone like Anita for being a bad person (because of her actions) she just brings up her gender as a shield saying "you're only attacking me because I am a woman". It's a logical fallacy but a lot of people and news sites have fallen for it.

If it weren't for the anti-GamerGate side bringing up gender it would most likely not have been mentioned. You just have to look at the praise women like Christina Sommers, KiteTail and other pro-GamerGate women are getting to see that it's not about hating women. It's about hating people who hate games and gamers.

[HippY]

My thoughts exactly... 

 

And no, not all gamers are children and nerds depending on your operational definition of 'gamer'...

I know, but who are the vocal layer?

The fathers, the computer enthusiasts, the everyday people who play games in their limited freetime, and using microphone as helping or for saying "GG"

Or the young people or simply put cunts, who go there to play that they are someone over everyone and keeping shouting certain stuff, and including deathtreats.

 

I am completely aware the gaming community as whole, but the most vocals are as usual are not the right representatives, but are taken as

 

 

Still not sure why people care about game journalism being corrupt. Does anyone actually pay attention to them? Ever since steam released their user ratings, I've never looked back. If you look past the "420/10 got to smoke a joint with a cis bisexual centaur" ratings, you can find some pretty quality reviews fully listing the pros and cons of a game. I'm not going to dip into the "feminism" bit of GamerGate since I don't see a problem with more female characters and I could care less if some lady on the internet (or a bunch of them) calls me a misogynist. Why care what they say?

 

 

There is the joke that "10/10 IGN- like Skyrim with Guns" and it is one of the biggest gaming website out there, so sadly people do listen to gaming journalism 

(I do not want to bring hate to specially to IGN,. because I am not sure how corrupt are they)

[DigitalHermit]

I know, but who are the vocal layer?

The fathers, the computer enthusiasts, the everyday people who play games in their limited freetime, and using microphone as helping or for saying "GG"

Or the young people or simply put cunts, who go there to play that they are someone over everyone and keeping shouting certain stuff, and including deathtreats.

 

I am completely aware the gaming community as whole, but the most vocals are as usual are not the right representatives, but are taken as

 

I'd say it's the kids... But this is the internet and you're never sure about who's who...

 

There are level-headed, logical people in both camps, most likely, but if the empty cans are the ones that make the most noise, then they'll be the ones who will be noticed...

[Yoinkerman]

I'd say it's the kids... But this is the internet and you're never sure about who's who...

There are level-headed, logical people in both camps, most likely, but if the empty cans are the ones that make the most noise, then they'll be the ones who will be noticed...

The kids on these forums? Because the majority of vitriol spit out here is one sided from the anti sarkeesian camp. At anyone neutral or who wants to give both sides merit.

[IdortMasterRace]

What about Brianna Wu who got so many threats of death, rape, and other violence to her and her family after someone found and listed her home address that she had to go somewhere else safe? Not to mention she believes people are attacking the financial accounts of her company. All of this over her poking some fun at the bad side of GamerGate by retweeting a meme generator someone sent to her. Explain to me how that is an appropriate reaction and in ANY way shines anything but a horrible light on the entire "movement"?

 

Fuck sake.

 

Again, GamerGate ISN'T saying that shit is appropriate, GamerGate is against those threats. Stop repeating the same fucking things over and over and over again.

[cae]

You can denounce personal attacks all day long, it makes no difference. 2 months in, and no matter how many people tell them otherwise, someone is going to make the accusations anyway. They're speed bumps, nothing more. Cruise right over them.

 

Time is better spent elsewhere - playing video games, writing emails to advertisers, piloting new ideas, etc.

[DigitalHermit]

The kids on these forums? Because the majority of vitriol spit out here is one sided from the anti sarkeesian camp. At anyone neutral or who wants to give both sides merit.

 

The kids on both camps in places other than these forums... Believe it or not, people feel more mature here...

 

I can somewhat understand why they're against Sharkeesian though (even I am against her)... I tried to watch her videos and I tried to do my own analysis from my limited knowledge and with a very different set of methods and a very different set of games and I came up with a very different view of things... The Sharkeesian brand of feminism is just something that clashes with my ideals... It's not the feminism... It's the attempt to undermine creative expression by shoehorning political correctness and 'feminist' ideals...

[Derangel]

Brianna Wu not just "retweeting a meme generator someone sent to her". She said "Haha. This Opressed Gaergater thing is so full of win. I'll RT the best ones". She was encouraging people to make more, and she had already posted a bunch of them. She was willingly antagonizing the people in Gamergate and was using logical fallacies (for example the one she tweeted was ad hominem). Not only that, but she has admitted to make sock puppet accounts where she pretends to be a supporter of GamerGate and then posts bullshit just to make people on the other side seem bad. This was before she started tweeting those memes by the way (check the date).

She tries to pretend like she was impartial and then got caught in the cross fire but that's not at all what happened.

 

Ah. I didn't see all of that. I was trying to read deeper into it before replying to you but wasn't able to find a lot. Just her retweet and her commenting that she thought some of them were funny and that she would showcase her favorites, followed by her reactions to the 8Chan thread. She definitely should not be doing that. I don't think it excuses the threats and everything else, but it does make her FAR less innocent.

 

Fuck sake.

 

Again, GamerGate ISN'T saying that shit is appropriate, GamerGate is against those threats. Stop repeating the same fucking things over and over and over again.

 

Say what you want but the fact is that IS what GamerGate is saying. When it appears as if the VAST majority of people are engaging in this shit using GamerGate to hide behind than that becomes the public image of the entire movement. It doesn't matter what you and other people want it to be, it is what it is. No matter what people claim to have started it out as that is what it has become. The good intentions and messages are utterly buried and the quite frankly abhorrent responses from people to ANY perceived slight by ANY remotely "public" figure has ruined it entirely. I'm far from the first or only person that has come to this conclusion. I would love to be able to get behind GamerGate because I really do like the message it was trying to have originally. However I'd rather cut off an arm than associate myself with Adam Baldwin or several of the other GamerGate supporters.

[IdortMasterRace]

Say what you want but the fact is that IS what GamerGate is saying. When it appears as if the VAST majority of people are engaging in this shit using GamerGate to hide behind than that becomes the public image of the entire movement. It doesn't matter what you and other people want it to be, it is what it is. No matter what people claim to have started it out as that is what it has become. The good intentions and messages are utterly buried and the quite frankly abhorrent responses from people to ANY perceived slight by ANY remotely "public" figure has ruined it entirely. I'm far from the first or only person that has come to this conclusion. I would love to be able to get behind GamerGate because I really do like the message it was trying to have originally. However I'd rather cut off an arm than associate myself with Adam Baldwin or several of the other GamerGate supporters.

 

But it isn't the vast majority. Keep twisting it as much as you like, the majority aren't making noise like chimps to begin with and instead doing more productive things like writing emails, partaking in debates, talking to companies, etc.

[LAwLz]

Ah. I didn't see all of that. I was trying to read deeper into it before replying to you but wasn't able to find a lot. Just her retweet and her commenting that she thought some of them were funny and that she would showcase her favorites, followed by her reactions to the 8Chan thread. She definitely should not be doing that. I don't think it excuses the threats and everything else, but it does make her FAR less innocent.

Yeah death threats are never justifiable. Gamergate don't just attack random women though, they go after people (regardless of gender, race or sexuality) that are antagonizing them. Obviously the victims won't bring that up in their stories, but if you look into it yourself you usually find a pretty reasonable explanation for GamerGate actions. The problem is that doing all the digging and research can be pretty time consuming (and boring), but at the same time it's bad to blindly trust what someone says. If you don't do the (heavy and time consuming) research yourself then it's best to stay neutral.

[Derangel]

But it isn't the vast majority. Keep twisting it as much as you like, the majority aren't making noise like chimps to begin with and instead doing more productive things like writing emails, partaking in debates, talking to companies, etc.

 

To repeat myself: It APPEARS as if it's the vast majority. You can't just selective pick and choose who is and is not part of GamerGate (especially when we're talking about likely several hundred people, if not more). It's a movement, not an organization. I never said there aren't good people or people being productive, but I'm not going to ignore the other people either. You HAVE to take the good with the bad, it's just in this case the bad outweighs the good. Anyone that says they support GamerGate is part of the movement (as long as there isn't proof that they're faking it) and they are also part of it's public image. I'm not twisting anything. I have no reason to do so. I'm simply calling things as I see them. I'm neither for nor against GamerGate. I am however against several of the actions taken in the name of GamerGate. It's enough of an issue to keep me on the outside and to keep me from getting any emotional attachment to the entire thing. Which is kind of the big point with me: I have no emotional attachment to GamerGate and I couldn't care less if people on either side of the debate like what I have to say about it.

 

I utterly despise modern journalism and have enough of a distaste for some of the way the gaming press is handled to outright refuse to call anyone involved "journalists" or to classify it as journalism so believe me I want these discussions to happen. I want to see changes. However I simply don't see that coming from GamerGate. Social media is simply not capable of handling an intelligent, mature, movement on this scale. I think the good people involved should start making their points outside of the GG hashtag and away from the rest of the issues. Instead of trying to separate the worst examples of social media from GamerGate perhaps it's better for the good folks to separate themselves from that mess?

 

Yeah death threats are never justifiable. Gamergate don't just attack random women though, they go after people (regardless of gender, race or sexuality) that are antagonizing them. Obviously the victims won't bring that up in their stories, but if you look into it yourself you usually find a pretty reasonable explanation for GamerGate actions. The problem is that doing all the digging and research can be pretty time consuming (and boring), but at the same time it's bad to blindly trust what someone says. If you don't do the (heavy and time consuming) research yourself then it's best to stay neutral.

 

Yeah, I completely messed up on this one. I usually try to dig deeper into things. I was just in too much of a hurry and I have a hard time reading through some of the nastier comments to get to relevant information. I can only handle so much of that stuff before I feel like I need to find something much more cheerful. The sad thing is my opinions on the game's press are more in line with GamerGate than anything else.

[HalGameGuru]

To repeat myself: It APPEARS as if it's the vast majority. You can't just selective pick and choose who is and is not part of GamerGate (especially when we're talking about likely several hundred people, if not more). It's a movement, not an organization. I never said there aren't good people or people being productive, but I'm not going to ignore the other people either. You HAVE to take the good with the bad, it's just in this case the bad outweighs the good. Anyone that says they support GamerGate is part of the movement (as long as there isn't proof that they're faking it) and they are also part of it's public image. I'm not twisting anything. I have no reason to do so. I'm simply calling things as I see them. I'm neither for nor against GamerGate. I am however against several of the actions taken in the name of GamerGate. It's enough of an issue to keep me on the outside and to keep me from getting any emotional attachment to the entire thing. Which is kind of the big point with me: I have no emotional attachment to GamerGate and I couldn't care less if people on either side of the debate like what I have to say about it.

 

I utterly despise modern journalism and have enough of a distaste for some of the way the gaming press is handled to outright refuse to call anyone involved "journalists" or to classify it as journalism so believe me I want these discussions to happen. I want to see changes. However I simply don't see that coming from GamerGate. Social media is simply not capable of handling an intelligent, mature, movement on this scale. I think the good people involved should start making their points outside of the GG hashtag and away from the rest of the issues. Instead of trying to separate the worst examples of social media from GamerGate perhaps it's better for the good folks to separate themselves from that mess?

 

 

Yeah, I completely messed up on this one. I usually try to dig deeper into things. I was just in too much of a hurry and I have a hard time reading through some of the nastier comments to get to relevant information. I can only handle so much of that stuff before I feel like I need to find something much more cheerful. The sad thing is my opinions on the game's press are more in line with GamerGate than anything else.

 

It cannot APPEAR to be the vast majority when you are speaking of a community of tens if not hundreds of millions of people. ESPECIALLY not when it came out a lot of the accounts being most vociferously antagonistic were shill accounts, a few of which were run by the people BEING THREATENED.

 

Its the big problem whenever a big social issue comes up. The polar extremes and troublemakers with no chips in the pot get into making trouble for trouble's sake and keep the level-headed masses from making any headway.

 

I can sit in a coffee shop for a few hours making random posts with #GamerGate in them that does not make them a part of some community platform. All this negativity is the actions of individuals, whether or not they identify themselves as a part of the GamerGate movement, what they are doing is not in line with the movement itself nor the stated goals and grievances its platform actually comprises.

[IdortMasterRace]

(especially when we're talking about likely several hundred people, if not more)

 

You're joking, right?

[IdortMasterRace]

I can sit in a coffee shop for a few hours making random posts with #GamerGate in them that does not make them a part of some community platform. All this negativity is the actions of individuals, whether or not they identify themselves as a part of the GamerGate movement, what they are doing is not in line with the movement itself nor the stated goals and grievances its platform actually comprises.

 

This. Like I said earlier in the thread, if I go tweet "ALL WOMEN ARE SCUM #LINUSTECHTIPS", does that mean LinusTechTips Forum thinks women are scum?

[IdortMasterRace]

Oh, look, anti-GG making gun death threats.

 

[cae]

Oh, look, anti-GG making gun death threats.

 

No, silly, that's clearly a #GamerGate supporter because he used the hashtag. He wants to protect Milo. :^)

 

Fuck Twitter, respectfully with a consent form.