Why do "Next-Gen" games use so much video memory?

[LOST TALE]

pre-upscaled texture trololo

 

 

dat 480p texture is actually rendered and loaded in 4k.

[RazeG3SG1]

We the PC users have come to the point where graphics power is only being held behind by VRAM.

[SkilledRebuilds]

We the PC users have come to the point where graphics power is only being held behind by VRAM Consoles, Shoddy Ports & Tech-illiterate Lazy Developers.

"Lets just pump the game so full of assets, cos like.. consoles got HUGE amounts of VRAM anyway right?..... go for it, PC guys 'should' be able to play it on their systems, we'll patch that in if its not the case"

[RazeG3SG1]

"Lets just pump the game so full of assets, cos like.. consoles got HUGE amounts of VRAM anyway right?..... go for it, PC guys 'should' be able to play it on their systems, we'll patch that in if its not the case"

LOL. They can't use those VRAM as efficient as a PC. And there is a limit I believe, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Guest]

All of this shadow of mordor idiocy can be summed up with:

 

tl;dr, I downloaded the game's optional 4k texture pack and now it doesn't run well with 2-3gb vram, OMG TERRIBLE UNOPTIMIZED!!1

 

ignoring the fact that just turning the textures down to high leads to very little visible difference and the game runs butter smooth, and is actually quite well optimized for pc.

 

comparing this game to watch_dogs in port quality is really stupid, this is a vastly superior port compared to watch_dogs.

[eLucid]

So many games have released recently that use massive amounts of video memory for no apparent reason! 

For a 1440p monitor user with a pair of GTX 780s, it's really frustrating having to lower texture resolutions etc just so I don't get stutters!

Here's a rant I recorded about the issue:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGyYZddc9gI

Can anyone on here provide a reasonable explanation as to why these games perform so badly?

 

1. There is a reason.

2. Vram doesn't stack.

3. Poor coding.

[IrshaadH]

It is what it is. Game development evolves, game worlds grow and become more detailed and new tech comes out to take advantage of it.

[ACatWithThumbs]

But my question is, what exactly are they using this memory for!? Why is the video memory usage for SoM so much greater than Crysis 3's, despite Crysis 3 obviously looking better? Yes it's an open world but I would have presumed that open worlds require more RAM and more CPU power, rather than GPU and VRAM.

More complex materials,better textures,more shaders ect.

Most new games use now layered materials those make it easier to have consistent and more detailed materials but they eat up 2x-3x as much vram.

And the CPU is barely needed anymore in games the GPU can do almost everything faster.

The only reason we used the CPU so much in the last years was because the ps3/xbox360 don't have Stream Processors/Cuda Cores.

 

comparing this game to watch_dogs in port quality is really stupid, this is a vastly superior port compared to watch_dogs.

I disagree Watchdogs has amazing texture and material quality as well high poly models and physics.

Besides the stutter issue while driving the game runs good and clearly justifies the fps.

This is with texture quality on High not Ultra:

 

[ivhyn]

But my question is, what exactly are they using this memory for!? Why is the video memory usage for SoM so much greater than Crysis 3's, despite Crysis 3 obviously looking better? Yes it's an open world but I would have presumed that open worlds require more RAM and more CPU power, rather than GPU and VRAM.

Obvious answer is ultra quality textures (6GB for UHD textures ffs) and big draw distance (open playspace). If you compare Crysis 3's 1080p VRAM requirement to SoM's 1080p VRAM requirement (High texture settings for sanity) they're quite similar (~2.5GB for both). 

[Raid]

Big textures take big amounts of memory. The games are now optimized for high-end gaming PCs, just like the #PCMasterRace wanted.

It is interesting to see how the minimum system requirements for PC games jumped from a Core2Duo to a quad core i5.

[eLucid]

Big textures take big amounts of memory. The games are now optimized for high-end gaming PCs, just like the #PCMasterRace wanted.

It is interesting to see how the minimum system requirements for PC games jumped from a Core2Duo to a quad core i5.

 

Where are you getting this from? The majority of games are shitty console ports.

[killcomic]

I think the issues is that since the new consoles have so much RAM available for textures (with that unified memory architecture and all) that developers have gone to town with it.

Geometry is expensive performance-wise. Since consoles don't have the raw power to compete with PC, the way they make games look good is with textures. If you got enough VRAM, it's a really inexpensive way of making something look good. 

[Grrizz]

Personally I'd like to see a trend to release settings higher then what top end cards can handle, I miss the Crysis 1 days when each time you upgraded you could go back to it and see how far you could push it. The thought that they would make high the equivalent of ultra just so people can have the satisfaction of setting everything to ultra release is a little disappointing to me Its not like its the best it can be just because its labelled ultra

[VortexS]

Nice video. Oh and btw, I saw your csgo toxic video on reddit a while ago, subbed

[Gypopotamus]

More complex materials,better textures,more shaders ect.

Most new games use now layered materials those make it easier to have consistent and more detailed materials but they eat up 2x-3x as much vram.

And the CPU is barely needed anymore in games the GPU can do almost everything faster.

The only reason we used the CPU so much in the last years was because the ps3/xbox360 don't have Stream Processors/Cuda Cores.

 

I disagree Watchdogs has amazing texture and material quality as well high poly models and physics.

Besides the stutter issue while driving the game runs good and clearly justifies the fps.

This is with texture quality on High not Ultra:

 

Oh ok, so it's like having multiple textures for one object? Do you think you could demonstrate the use of these materials in some screenshots or video clips?

 

Obvious answer is ultra quality textures (6GB for UHD textures ffs) and big draw distance (open playspace). If you compare Crysis 3's 1080p VRAM requirement to SoM's 1080p VRAM requirement (High texture settings for sanity) they're quite similar (~2.5GB for both). 

Maybe it's different on your PC, but on mine it's not even close. Crysis 3 uses way less vram. Also, while SoM has open spaces that are larger than Crysis 3, there is never a time that you can actually see most of it. In terms of visible level sizes, they're pretty similar.

[Guest]

More complex materials,better textures,more shaders ect.

Most new games use now layered materials those make it easier to have consistent and more detailed materials but they eat up 2x-3x as much vram.

And the CPU is barely needed anymore in games the GPU can do almost everything faster.

The only reason we used the CPU so much in the last years was because the ps3/xbox360 don't have Stream Processors/Cuda Cores.

 

I disagree Watchdogs has amazing texture and material quality as well high poly models and physics.

Besides the stutter issue while driving the game runs good and clearly justifies the fps.

This is with texture quality on High not Ultra:

 

The 360 actually did have a unified shader architecture (aka stream processors), it was only the ps3 that was still using fixed pipeline.

[ACatWithThumbs]

Oh ok, so it's like having multiple textures for one object? Do you think you could demonstrate the use of these materials in some screenshots or video clips?

Yes, exactly.

And then their is also PBR/PBS (Physical Based Rendering/Shading) which gives real world values to materials.

You can't do it on Cross Gen titles because you have to change the hole material pipeline which is the reason why Assassin's Creed Unity is only for Ps4/XboxOne/PC.

That's also why Crysis 3 was still using the old materials while Ryse Son Of Rome uses the new ones and it also needs 3GB for highest textures in 1080p.

 

[Gypopotamus]

Yes, exactly.

And then their is also PBR/PBS (Physical Based Rendering/Shading) which gives real world values to materials.

You can't do it on Cross Gen titles because you have to change the hole material pipeline which is the reason why Assassin's Creed Unity is only for Ps4/XboxOne/PC.

That's also why Crysis 3 was still using the old materials while Ryse Son Of Rome uses the new ones and it also needs 3GB for highest textures in 1080p.

 

So I think I understand. It's a method of making objects have different characteristics for different parts of them, but why does this have such a massive vram requirement? surely it would easier to render than layering objects on top of each other, or doing some complex texture trickery. Also from what I hear, Ryse doesn't have any performance issues or massive system requirements. Obviously it's not out yet, but it seems to run fine on the pre-release version.

[ACatWithThumbs]

So I think I understand. It's a method of making objects have different characteristics for different parts of them, but why does this have such a massive vram requirement? surely it would easier to render than layering objects on top of each other, or doing some complex texture trickery. Also from what I hear, Ryse doesn't have any performance issues or massive system requirements. Obviously it's not out yet, but it seems to run fine on the pre-release version.

It takes more Vram because you're literally putting several textures on each other.

Normally you would make a rusty metal texture and just place it where you want but this takes time and doesn't look always natural.

But with layered materials you will make a normal metal texture and a rust texture and the engine will then lay the rusty texture on top of the metal in places where it's needed.

But that also means that you're actually looking at two textures so it will naturally take more Vram.

This means Vram usage will go up without the texture resolution or detail actually changing and this is what we are seeing right now. 

Ryse needs 3 GB Vram for the highest texture settings on 1080p and that while being a very linear game compared to something like Watchdogs.(In comparison Crysis 3 needs 2GB)

[Samfisher]

it's because the PS4 uses 8gb of GDDR5 shared between the CPU and GPU. so games are being built to take advantage of VRAM more than before.

the PS4 is the main platform for this generation of games because it is the most popular, so people build their games around it.

 

also, this would be considered to be self advertisment, which would fall under section 4.2 of the CoC

 

 

8GB with only 5GB usable as 3GB is reserved by system resources.  That's 5GB for BOTH VRAM and system RAM.  How does that even translate to 6GB VRAM on PC?  It doesn't, cos it's not optimized AT ALL.

[SkilledRebuilds]

8GB with only 5GB usable as 3GB is reserved by system resources.  That's 5GB for BOTH VRAM and system RAM.  How does that even translate to 6GB VRAM on PC?  It doesn't, cos it's not optimized AT ALL.

The Lazy Way - You take a 5GB-6GB Empty PIPE, stuff it full of content, hit the limit of data flow and then reserve/optimize it back to a comfortable performing level.

 

Then shaft any architecture that isn't native to doing so.

[the crunchiumo]

soooooo..... i just got a stock 980 and now youre telling me it wont last me are we moving to titans/ quadros now ?

[Guest]

soooooo..... i just got a stock 980 and now youre telling me it wont last me are we moving to titans/ quadros now ?

I wouldn't worry. One game that has an unoptimized, optional texture pack is hardly cause for vram panic. 3-4 gigs should be fine for the next few years.

[deathjester]

Just got Shadows of Mordor. This is on a Sapphire Tri-X R9 290 at stock settings with the "6GB ram" textures (download was like 10 gigs of just textures). Reloaded game after change to Ultra to make sure this was an accurate benchmark. Had to run in windowed borderless which cut FPS to take a screenshot. Every single setting is set to max at 1080p. This game MIGHT use more than 3 GB VRAM but it sure as hell doesn't use 6. Maybe at 4 k... As far as why? PS4 can use like 2.5. You are going to want a 3 GB VRAM card going forward to always have higher or equal textures than the PS4, though a 2GB GPU will get higher settings on everything else. Even with way higher textures though, you don't need 6 lol. Oh yeah and this is an "Nvidia" title with a big Nvidia logo at the start of the game. Biggest bullshit requirement I have ever seen from a game. The "lows" are also BS on the benchmark. The number at the top right was damn near locked at 60 and up. 

 

[Opcode]

UHD textures, this is why Watch Dogs took a huge face plant on PC.