Looking to get a handgun for home defense... Best/most economic calibre?

[Imaginaerum]

Lol you mean like all of my guns? which are all within reach of me right now, an thus 90% of the day.

 

I only keep my carry gun chambered, the rest are simply loaded but not chambered.

Oh come on now. Don't leave them with 5 full mags and 1 in the chamber in your kid's playpen and expect something not to go wrong.  If you're there supervising then your kids can be around all day but I still wouldn't let them handle it loaded away from a range.

 

I wouldn't even carry one with one in the chamber, but that's mainly because my Ruger doesn't have a real safety aside from the difficulty of pulling the trigger.

[Syntaxvgm]

I just have a 12 Gauge pump shotgun. It's less desirable to steal, it's cheap as hell, and you won't have to shoot twice. Plus scary as hell to see that pointed at you. I do use bird shot though, less penetration through walls.

Paid 100$ and hope to never shoot it in my home. And I don't go to gun ranges, though there are nice outdoor ones near my house.

I keep the gun unloaded (takes 2 seconds to load), and hidden in easy reach. The ammunition is next to the gun, but you'd never see it if you were ransacking my house. I don't intend to be shot with my own gun, nor do I intend to lock it up. I don't invite idiots I don't know into my home, and I don't tell others I have it.

Of course, the handgun may be nice for recreational shooting.

[Trik'Stari]

Oh come on now. Don't leave them with 5 full mags and 1 in the chamber in your kid's playpen and expect something not to go wrong.  If you're there supervising then your kids can be around all day but I still wouldn't let them handle it loaded away from a range.

 

I wouldn't even carry one with one in the chamber, but that's mainly because my Ruger doesn't have a real safety aside from the difficulty of pulling the trigger.

We have no children. If someone brings children over I lock them away (the guns, not the children lol) and unload them (except my carry gun, which is in a fire safe holster at all times)

[Imaginaerum]

We have no children. If someone brings children over I lock them away (the guns, not the children lol) and unload them (except my carry gun, which is in a fire safe holster at all times)

That's

what

I've

been

saying

[Art Vandelay]

Get a pump action shotgun. They're cheap and loaded with slugs or buck, they are significantly more lethal and intimidating than a handgun.

 

 

I just have a 12 Gauge pump shotgun. It's less desirable to steal, it's cheap as hell, and you won't have to shoot twice. Plus scary as hell to see that pointed at you. I do use bird shot though, less penetration through walls.

Bird shot doesn't penetrate enough to reliably penetrate the blood vessels in the back, though. It'll go through walls anyway if you miss.

[Trik'Stari]

Get a pump action shotgun. They're cheap and loaded with slugs or buck, they are significantly more lethal and intimidating than a handgun.

Yeah a slug will likely get you thrown in jail, and buckshot over-penetrates in humans (goes through them, or the ones that don't hit them will go through walls). Standard home defense round for shotgun is bird shot.

 

That's

what

I've

been

saying

I know. I was just saying we don't have kids. I'm the youngest person in the house, and everyone else has a loaded gun as well.

 

Edit: Correction, 3/4 of us have a gun, my mom has a tazer lol. Her arthritis prevents her from handling a gun well.

[Art Vandelay]

Yeah a slug will likely get you thrown in jail, and buckshot over-penetrates in humans (goes through them, or the ones that don't hit them will go through walls). Standard home defense round for shotgun is bird shot.

You want more penetration, ideally at least 12". According to the FBI, that's the minimum you should be looking for to reliably incapacitate an attacker. Last thing you want is someone still standing after being shot.

 

Why would a slug get you thrown in jail?

[Syntaxvgm]

Yeah a slug will likely get you thrown in jail, and buckshot over-penetrates in humans (goes through them, or the ones that don't hit them will go through walls). Standard home defense round for shotgun is bird shot.

 

I know. I was just saying we don't have kids. I'm the youngest person in the house, and everyone else has a loaded gun as well.

 

Edit: Correction, 3/4 of us have a gun, my mom has a tazer lol. Her arthritis prevents her from handling a gun well.

 

 

You want more penetration, ideally at least 12". According to the FBI, that's the minimum you should be looking for to reliably incapacitate an attacker. Last thing you want is someone still standing after being shot.

 

Why would a slug get you thrown in jail?

Yes, the ammunition you use makes no difference, as long as it's legal to own. As soon as you fire any gun, it's considered lethal force so ammunition type does not matter.

[Trik'Stari]

You want more penetration, ideally at least 12". According to the FBI, that's the minimum you should be looking for to reliably incapacitate an attacker. Last thing you want is someone still standing after being shot.

 

Why would a slug get you thrown in jail?

The average human torso is not 1 foot thick. The FBI is not to be trusted on anything (neither is the rest of the government honestly). What happens when that slug goes through the attacker and through the wall into your sister/brother/mother/father/son/daugher's room and possibly them?

 

And a slug could be construed as excessive force because it's intended for large game animals and not self defense, it's overkill to be honest (as much as I hate that term).

 

 

 

 

Yes, the ammunition you use makes no difference, as long as it's legal to own. As soon as you fire any gun, it's considered lethal force so ammunition type does not matter.

Correct in real life, incorrect in a courtroom with a lawyer trying to get you put in jail. They can argue "this was intended for large game animals blah blah blah blah blah". The general wisdom and advice given by most people is to use bird shot, less chance of missing, and less chance of over penetrating and accidentally killing someone you love, or the police that you called earlier.

 

Also bird shot has a slightly smaller chance of killing someone, and just incapacitating them instead. Although at point blank, yeah it's gonna probably kill them.

[Jack.EXE]

7.62 Tokarev.

 

Done, bye.

 

(Leaves thread with the OP enlightened)

[Syntaxvgm]

The average human torso is not 1 foot thick. The FBI is not to be trusted on anything (neither is the rest of the government honestly). What happens when that slug goes through the attacker and through the wall into your sister/brother/mother/father/son/daugher's room and possibly them?

 

And a slug could be construed as excessive force because it's intended for large game animals and not self defense, it's overkill to be honest (as much as I hate that term).

 

 

Correct in real life, incorrect in a courtroom with a lawyer trying to get you put in jail. They can argue "this was intended for large game animals blah blah blah blah blah".

 

 

Yes, the ammunition you use makes no difference, as long as it's legal to own. As soon as you fire any gun, it's considered lethal force so ammunition type does not matter.

Like I said, it's all lethal force. As long the the ammunition is legal. If it would be illegal to use hunting guns for self defense if that's all you had, and that would be stupid. Bird shot will kill you 90% of the time anyway from close range.

[AlwaysFSX]

You want more penetration, ideally at least 12". According to the FBI, that's the minimum you should be looking for to reliably incapacitate an attacker. Last thing you want is someone still standing after being shot.

 

Why would a slug get you thrown in jail?

You never use a slug for self defence...?

[Syntaxvgm]

You never use a slug for self defence...?

lol

[Trik'Stari]

7.62 Tokarev.

 

Done, bye.

 

(Leaves thread with the OP enlightened)

I'm sorry, but no. That gun is just as bad as a 9mm. More than likely going to piss someone off rather than kill them.

 

You never use a slug for self defence...?

I use .45 hollow points. OR if I'm outdoors it's 5.56 steel core hollow points.

[AlwaysFSX]

I'm sorry, but no. That gun is just as bad as a 9mm. More than likely going to piss someone off rather than kill them. What was the quote..? "Enough bullets in to anything and it'll stop moving."

 

I use .45 hollow points. OR if I'm outdoors it's 5.56 steel core hollow points.

Ow.

[C1intFunWood]

I use my bare fists. If things get out of hand I can always resort to open-hand slapping the shit out of them

You gotta back hand em

[Art Vandelay]

The average human torso is not 1 foot thick. The FBI is not to be trusted on anything (neither is the rest of the government honestly). What happens when that slug goes through the attacker and through the wall into your sister/brother/mother/father/son/daugher's room and possibly them?

 

And a slug could be construed as excessive force because it's intended for large game animals and not self defense, it's overkill to be honest (as much as I hate that term).

It's not 1 foot thick, but you have to consider that you're likely to be shooting through arms and bone as well, which can all stop a low penetration round before it can incapacitate.

one of the first things on google that comes up when looking that up is this: http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm

 

What if you shoot the attacker, then he stabs you and stabs your sister/brother/mother/father/son/daugher because the shot didn't bring him down? If you're shooting someone, it's life and death for your at that moment. You're going to take a gamble with your life and your family's life either way.

 

I'm gonna need to see a citation on that. .223 rounds do at least as much damage as buck shots. In Canada, you'd get thrown in jail either way.

 

 

You never use a slug for self defence...?

 

Why? Is it impolite?

[Trik'Stari]

 

It's not 1 foot thick, but you have to consider that you're likely to be shooting through arms and bone as well, which can all stop a low penetration round before it can incapacitate.

one of the first things on google that comes up when looking that up is this: http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm

 

What if you shoot the attacker, then he stabs you and stabs your sister/brother/mother/father/son/daugher because the shot didn't bring him down? If you're shooting someone, it's life and death for your at that moment. You're going to take a gamble with your life and your family's life either way.

 

I'm gonna need to see a citation on that. .223 rounds do at least as much damage as buck shots. In Canada, you'd get thrown in jail either way.

 

 

 

Why? Is it impolite?

 

I don't have a citation, but I can think like a lawyer and know how they argue. And if you can take a .45 hollow point to the arm and keep standing, then I have 11 more to follow, if those don't stop you then you need to join the military.

 

That's not including my dad's 12 gauge loaded with bird shot, his .357 hollow points, and my sister's .22 hollow points (she got the girl gun lol).

 

Trust me buddy, anyone that breaks into this house is dead, or going to severely regret it.

[Art Vandelay]

I don't have a citation, but I can think like a lawyer and know how they argue. And if you can take a .45 hollow point to the arm and keep standing, then I have 11 more to follow, if those don't stop you then you need to join the military.

 

That's not including my dad's 12 gauge loaded with bird shot, his .357 hollow points, and my sister's .22 hollow points (she got the girl gun lol).

 

Trust me buddy, anyone that breaks into this house is dead, or going to severely regret it.

Okay... you can think like a lawyer isn't a very good citation. If you're shooting someone and have a good reason, firing a different gun will get you in jail? If a guy's pointing a gun at you, killing them with a slug is worse than killing them with buck shot?

 

As for the second point, I can't seem to copy and paste off of this PDF for some reason, but look at the conclusion (page 16 of the document) of a trauma surgeon (I think). 

 

google fbi-hwfe.pdf

 

Well, after a couple of days, maybe the attacker will die of sepsis, from the open wounds.

 

Unless they're on bath salts.

[Trik'Stari]

Okay... you can think like a lawyer isn't a very good citation. If you're shooting someone and have a good reason, firing a different gun will get you in jail? If a guy's pointing a gun at you, killing them with a slug is worse than killing them with buck shot?

 

As for the second point, I can't seem to copy and paste off of this PDF for some reason, but look at the conclusion (page 16) of a trauma surgeon (I think). 

 

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

 

Well, after a couple of days, maybe the attacker will die of sepsis, from the open wounds.

 

Unless they're on bath salts.

Ok I'll give you +1 for the bath salts reference. But still, 90% of the time most people recommend bird shot simply so you don't hurt an innocent bystander. Buck shot maybe, but I would never use a slug, it's just too powerful to use indoors, it will go through somebody, and it will go through the wall behind them. The same reason I wouldn't use my AR-15 indoors, it would work wonderfully, but it's also far too much for the situation. I know for a fact that my .45 will more than likely stop them, I also know for a fact that my bird shot out of my 12 guage )plus the 9 rounds of bird shot after that) will stop them. (remington 870 with extended tube for the win)

 

Again, don't trust the FBI or any other government agency. If you shoot someone with a slug and get thrown in jail for "Excessive force" that's just another notch in their belt.

[aduman]

9mm of course.

[Art Vandelay]

Ok I'll give you +1 for the bath salts reference. But still, 90% of the time most people recommend bird shot simply so you don't hurt an innocent bystander. Buck shot maybe, but I would never use a slug, it's just too powerful to use indoors, it will go through somebody, and it will go through the wall behind them. The same reason I wouldn't use my AR-15 indoors, it would work wonderfully, but it's also far too much for the situation. I know for a fact that my .45 will more than likely stop them, I also know for a fact that my bird shot out of my 12 guage )plus the 9 rounds of bird shot after that) will stop them. (remington 870 with extended tube for the win)

 

Again, don't trust the FBI or any other government agency. If you shoot someone with a slug and get thrown in jail for "Excessive force" that's just another notch in their belt.

Apparently you are Disagreeing with the head of the US Army's wound ballistics laboratory, Martin Fackler, here.

 

"too little penetration will get you killed"

 

edit: lol I didn't notice the "For police dissemination only" part... you should probably delete that link.

[heathd]

If I'm using a shotty for home defense, then I'll be using winchester pdx 12 gauge rounds. Three 00 buckshot sitting on top of a 1oz slug.

[Syntaxvgm]

Ok I'll give you +1 for the bath salts reference. But still, 90% of the time most people recommend bird shot simply so you don't hurt an innocent bystander. Buck shot maybe, but I would never use a slug, it's just too powerful to use indoors, it will go through somebody, and it will go through the wall behind them. The same reason I wouldn't use my AR-15 indoors, it would work wonderfully, but it's also far too much for the situation. I know for a fact that my .45 will more than likely stop them, I also know for a fact that my bird shot out of my 12 guage )plus the 9 rounds of bird shot after that) will stop them. (remington 870 with extended tube for the win)

 

Again, don't trust the FBI or any other government agency. If you shoot someone with a slug and get thrown in jail for "Excessive force" that's just another notch in their belt.

Yah I have birdshot for that reason. It'll kill just fine. I can shoot that pump fast anyway. You aren't getting up after getting hit from close range, and you are running if it missed anyway unless you are on meth or something.

An empty milk jug will actually capture some birdshot pellets from ~15-20 yards range for reference. I'm no ballistics expert, but I would imagine it's much less likely to travel through walls and hurt someone in your house, and very unlikely to travel outside your house and hit a bystander.

That said, all ammunition that is legal is deadly force. Excessive force relates to the use of a firearm. A .22 and a slug are the same to the law in terms of necessary force.

[NInety]

Snub nosed .44 Magnum would be my suggestion. Or just a normal .44 Mag. Whichever one you'll be more comfortable with. Maybe a .357 if you don't like the overpowered-ness of a .44.