Microsoft Defies Judge, Refuses To Hand Over Customer Emails

[Real_PhillBert]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2014/09/02/microsoft-defies-judge-refuses-to-hand-over-customer-emails/

 

 

Microsoft looks set to be found in contempt of court after defying an order from a US judge that it should hand over data stored in Ireland.

Judge Loretta Preska, chief of the US District Court in Manhattan, has lifted a stay on her previous order that Microsoft must give email messages held in an Irish data center to US prosecutors investigating a criminal case.

 

However, Microsoft is refusing to comply. While the judge has concluded that the order itself isn’t appealable, a refusal to play ball by Microsoft could force her to find the company in contempt. Microsoft could then appeal against that finding to continue arguing its case.

 

“We will appeal promptly and continue to advocate that people’s emails deserve strong privacy protection in the US and around the world,” says Microsoft general counsel Brad Smith in a statement. “The only issue that was certain this morning was that the District Court’s decision would not represent the final step in this process.”

[Nineshadow]

Well...they're asking for property outside of the US.

[Real_PhillBert]

Well...they're asking for property outside of the US.

To me, this is now less about what the courts are asking of Microsoft but more about Microsoft's refusal to comply.

 

We are getting closer and closer to an implied vs imposed vs granted authority debate, which I find endlessly interesting.

[nathanhd123]

#publicitystunt

Give it a week and they will have handed over those emails!

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

Good.

 

It is disgusting that American judges think they can do a single thing outside of America.

[RelentlessAF]

Good.

 

It is disgusting that American judges think they can do a single thing outside of America.

Well they are investigating a criminal case, if they wanted to have the person moved from Ireland to the U.S. Ireland's government would comply. I don't see how e-mails will help them but *shrug*

[Polyvalent]

What exactly is the issue they're in court for?

[Real_PhillBert]

What exactly is the issue they're in court for?

From what I understand they (Microsoft) are really not in court, some one else is being investigated for a crime in the US, and the courts feel that some emails that the suspect wrote could be pertinent to the case. Microsoft has them stored on the customers "Cloud" but Microsoft has these servers in Ireland. So when the courts gave a subpoena to Microsoft for the emails, Microsoft refused, the courts fought back a bit, then the tech community threw a big fit which made the judge put a stay on the subpoena. Now today the Judge lifted that stay order, and maintains that the courts have the authority to demand these emails regardless of where they are physically located, and Microsoft is continuing to refuse the order.

[Panda689]

#publicitystunt

Give it a week and they will have handed over those emails!

Not really, if they comply with the US judge then they are breaking EU law IIRC.

[nathanhd123]

Not really, if they comply with the US judge then they are breaking EU law IIRC.

To be fair I am only really joking about,all though a federal judge has ruled that they are within their rights to request the emails.

[rmac52]

Well they are investigating a criminal case, if they wanted to have the person moved from Ireland to the U.S. Ireland's government would comply. I don't see how e-mails will help them but *shrug*

The difference is the US would have to petition Ireland for extradition and Ireland would have to agree. We couldn't just send over some FBI agents and take a person. If the US petitioned the Irish government for the emails and the Irish ordered them handed over it would be different.

[RelentlessAF]

The difference is the US would have to petition Ireland for extradition and Ireland would have to agree. We couldn't just send over some FBI agents and take a person. If the US petitioned the Irish government for the emails and the Irish ordered them handed over it would be different.

Not really extradition is apart of the agreement between nations in the U.N. it's an important thing to prevent criminals from attempting to flee to other countries. An appealing process would waste a lot of time. The Irish government has no right to it's citizens e-mails. Microsoft Owns the servers and therefore the data which is apart of their ToS. The Irish government can't say they have to give it to them or give it to the U.S. My concern is how will e-mails help. If you have enough proof to have already extradited the person you should be able to convict them as well.

[Real_PhillBert]

Not really extradition is apart of the agreement between nations in the U.N. it's an important thing to prevent criminals from attempting to flee to other countries. An appealing process would waste a lot of time. The Irish government has no right to it's citizens e-mails. Microsoft Owns the servers and therefore the data which is apart of their ToS. The Irish government can't say they have to give it to them or give it to the U.S. My concern is how will e-mails help. If you have enough proof to have already extradited the person you should be able to convict them as well.

From what I understand the suspect was and always has been in the US. The emails that he sent just happen to be housed on a server that Microsoft manages in Ireland. I don't believe anyone has been extradited in this case.

[RelentlessAF]

From what I understand the suspect was and always has been in the US. The emails that he sent just happen to be housed on a server that Microsoft manages in Ireland. I don't believe anyone has been extradited in this case.

Than I suppose that might be helpful, still Microsoft doesn't have to give them anything.

[AstroZombie1]

Good.

[rmac52]

Not really extradition is apart of the agreement between nations in the U.N. it's an important thing to prevent criminals from attempting to flee to other countries. An appealing process would waste a lot of time. The Irish government has no right to it's citizens e-mails. Microsoft Owns the servers and therefore the data which is apart of their ToS. The Irish government can't say they have to give it to them or give it to the U.S. My concern is how will e-mails help. If you have enough proof to have already extradited the person you should be able to convict them as well.

 

Yes there are extradition agreements in place.  But that doesn't mean we can just go to an extradition country and take people,  We still have to ask the host country.  Even with extradition agreements  many countries will not extradite to the US on capital crimes unless we guarantee no death penalty.  This isn't really applicable in this case but it does show that even with extradition agreements in place we still have to ask for extradition and it can be declined.

[Redheadsrule13]

I honestly don't know much about the legality of the situation, but I think it's good that microsoft is taking a stand and not bending over for the US courts like so many companies and people do.

[Trik'Stari]

Wow, for once microsoft does something right. The only way they will have to release that information is if the government of Ireland orders them to.

[Real_PhillBert]

I honestly don't know much about the legality of the situation, but I think it's good that microsoft is taking a stand and not bending over for the US courts like so many companies and people do.

I think your username is awesome.

 

Seriously.

[N3rot0xin]

Good, defy those greedy judges. If Microsoft did hand them over without question, it would be setting the stage for the US courts to use "investigating a criminal case"(with false eveidence of course) and gather emails from any overseas datacenter on anybody. Simply because they can. its ludicrous for the US courts to assume they can snatch and grab private data from overseas like this.  

[lttiscancer]

Good.

 

It is disgusting that American judges think they can do a single thing outside of America.

for once a non trolling non inflamatory post. +like to you.

[thebennyboy]

Well they are investigating a criminal case, if they wanted to have the person moved from Ireland to the U.S. Ireland's government would comply. I don't see how e-mails will help them but *shrug*

 

That is a slightly ignorant thing to say. Ireland is more like likely to tell them to stick it up their ass. A U.S. judge has NO authority to make Microsoft hand over any data that is located in an overseas datacenter.

[RelentlessAF]

That is a slightly ignorant thing to say. Ireland is more like likely to tell them to stick it up their ass. A U.S. judge has NO authority to make Microsoft hand over any data that is located in an overseas datacenter.

No it isn't and no they aren't. As a part of being in the U.N. extradition of criminals is something all countries comply to as making a big deal about extraditing a criminal is a waste of time and gives them a chance to get away. When it comes to data it has nothing to do with government, the data belongs to Microsoft.

[Jerakl]

When it gets to the point that a judge in a criminal case in the US (which IMO isn't that big because I haven't heard of it until now) thinks that they can force Microsoft to hand over property that's not even in the country. Something needs to change.

[That Norwegian Guy]

Yes there are extradition agreements in place.  But that doesn't mean we can just go to an extradition country and take people,  We still have to ask the host country.  Even with extradition agreements  many countries will not extradite to the US on capital crimes unless we guarantee no death penalty.  This isn't really applicable in this case but it does show that even with extradition agreements in place we still have to ask for extradition and it can be declined.

 

In the 90s Norway refused extradiction to the US on the grounds that your prisons did not meet minimum humanitarian standards. I'm unsure if that is still the case though there haven't been many cases since then that I'm aware of.