I have a legitimate question about religion (more so Christianity)

[Firearm2112]

I also think that Atheists bash Christians mainly because the more vocal ones (not everyone is this dumb lol) put out videos like this.

Jesus christ, that was scripted as f*ck. No pun intended lelelee

[XTankSlayerX]

I personally im not religious in anyways (Don't believe in gods, then again no one really knows.) But I do enjoy learning about religions and what not. I don't get why people have to think like the rest of the people.

 

I don't get why people bash other religions, its just not the right thing to do.

 

The bad side of anything will scream much louder then the good side.

[Guest]

 

 

I've seen this before first hand, and it doesn't make much sense to me. America is a land of religious freedom, yet if you say "Oh hey, I'm a Christian" some people will immediately start bashing you for it. Am I saying most people will do this? NO! I am NOT saying that at all. 

I would like to call this out where I live if your NOT Christian you are scum. 

[TopWargamer]

I would like to call this out where I live if your NOT Christian you are scum.

Like I said later on about this topic, Christians are not absent from this.

[Mooshi]

I would like to call this out where I live if your NOT Christian you are scum. 

 

This.

 

I'm in Texas as is most of my family. if I told them I don't believe in their religious beliefs, they would flat out disown me, especially my asshole Uncle I had to stay with before.

[Hidden Orange]

I'm just saying that whenever someone references the original founding fathers with having created this country with the intention of religious freedom, it's not exactly what the public school system teaches in early years, but it is what we have now.

Times change and I bet that they had some idea or insight into that so they left the Constitution to be a bit more open. That didn't mean, however, that the founders weren't bigots, racists, extremists, radicals, etc. Hell, they deciding to rebel against a monarchy was radical enough. The unfortunate thing is that almost every nation romanticizes and glorifies their roots while hiding and covering the bad sides. Glancing back into our past isn't the same as knowing we, as human beings, are horrible people and should remember and learn from our mistakes. Knowing them isn't enough; making sure they don't happen by learning why they happened is.

[APrettyCoolWalrus]

Stay away from conservative wings of Christianity such as Catholic and stay to the left-winged side like Episcopalian and Lutheran. Right-winged christians can say stupid things (not that liberal christians won't, but they are at least open-minded). 

 

Actually the first thing people think of when they hear "Christian" is a redneck, which paints a bad picture for the religion.

[meritmaster]

Please people, no flame wars. I'm NOT making this thread for the intention of making people upset. On the contrary, I actually want an answer to a question that I've asked myself for quite a while. Please read the entire post to fully understand what I'm trying to say.

Please and thank you. Now let's have a civilized discussion.

 

To start, I will embed a picture of this Facebook post that just showed up in my profile feed on Facebook.

 

Think about it for a second. He does have a point. I myself am a Christian, a..."loose" one, but still a Christian none the less. So if you want to say that I have a bias, then fine, go ahead, although I try my best to look at things objectively.

 

I've seen this before first hand, and it doesn't make much sense to me. America is a land of religious freedom, yet if you say "Oh hey, I'm a Christian" some people will immediately start bashing you for it. Am I saying most people will do this? NO! I am NOT saying that at all. But that kind of mindset makes no sense to me.

 

Like, I realize that there are some Christians who can be...hm...annoying, to say the least. I get that, and I understand that, and I can understand why you would dislike somebody for that, but you have to realize that not all Christians are like "that one annoying Christian 'freak' that you met the other day."

 

So with that being said, I've noticed that some people who hate on Christianity don't seem to necessarily hate on other religions. I don't ever recall (from personal experience) somebody bashing Islam or Buddhism or Shintoism or whatever. The only other religion that I've seen get bashed on as much as Christianity is Judaism, but that's a topic for another time, although still relevant to the discussion.

 

So why is this? Because it honestly doesn't make any sense to me. For example, let's say...an Atheist starts bashing on Christianity. Okay fine, but that same Atheist won't bash on other religions. Again, I've seen this more than once, and it just doesn't make any sense to me. Oh, and to clarify, I am NOT saying that most Atheists are Christian-bashers. Nononono, I'm not saying that all. I'm just using that as an example, because it seems to happen most with Atheist, from my personal experience. I personally do NOT have a problem with Atheists, so please do not misunderstand me.

 

I personally don't care what you worship or lack thereof. I'll tolerate what you believe and let that be that. I just don't get why people can't be this way? I'm not saying that Christians are absent from this. Oh nononono, certainly not. There are plenty of Christians and other religions guilty of this. But like...in America...ya know...freedom of speech...freedom of religion...freedom of assembly... (I know that plenty of other countries have all of these rights as well, just focusing on America for this thread). So with these rights being in place, I just do not understand why people bash what other people believe. Just tolerate it and move on. It's that simple! No matter you tell that person, they more than likely won't change their mind anyways.

Just to put my opinion on the original post before i thumb through the rest of the opinions, but please bare with me, as i have just returned from work, and i'm mentally tired.

The United States is based on the Judeo-Christian law system, and of which directly derives from gods words; this is a fact, and is widely dismissed by people of the modern day.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."  ....."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

 

People tend to say these are deist's beliefs, but this is the belief of Christians, and Jews, as we both follow the same doctrine of law; ultimate freedom, and of which is the same freedom god gave humanity when his son died for us. The founders were

 

Christians, and there were deist in the group, as Thomas Jefferson was one, and he was a vital part of the revolution; the same also goes for Thomas Payne, of which is said to be the man who set forth a pamphlet that inspired individuals in the beliefs of the

 

revolutions, but as the declaration of independence says these rights are self evident. The majority of the founders were Christians, and creationists, and of whom would be key players such as George Washington(Who believed he was Divinely guided to the

 

position he fell into), Benjamin Franklin, Sam Adams, and Madison. Other American Heroes of different revolutions were also of the same christian faith as the founders were, and these men ranged from Abraham Lincoln to MLK ( of which believed he was

 

divinely guided, and chosen.  

You're probably wondering what does this have to do with my question, but you have to understand who our country is, our roots, and our deep connection with god, and his laws; you're going to have to look at us as an exceptional country who broke off from a political system ruled by insanity, and was the first country to admire a human as a individual, and not a collective. We are a undying symbol of good, as America is good; once you see that, and accept the struggle between the good, and evil is real, and always dwelling on humanity, and the individual then you will see why people hate our religion, and have "tolerance"  towards others that actually promote murder; arm them, and then watch them murder Christians, and Jews, as that's what's happening with ISIS right now in Iraq, and Syria; remember the Arab Spring? Back to the point; evil  is real, and the struggle is constant, so who is evil? Einstein put in a good way once “God did not create evil. Just as darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of God. "

http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/10/21/its-not-a-theory-anymore-islamists-socialists-marxists-to-unite-on-wall-street/

http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/01/30/the-global-caliphate-one-year-later/

 

Evil will work with evil to destroy good, and then they will destroy each other.

If you look at the current situation we are headed for World War III, and there are no more off ramps; the sides are forming, and it's slowing turning into a war to destroy America, and Israel; stomping out good, so evil can prevail. http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/103576/the-cold-wars-arab-spring

The Atheist hate us, and they hate that individuals choose to believe in a god; if you're looking for example look at the USSR, and the cold war, and hatred for America. The USSR was a country raised on the law of set of now god, or creator, as they took the Darwin law set. Marx, and Engles were both vocal about there atheism:

 

“The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world...

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion

 

is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower. The criticism of religion disillusions

 

man, so that he will think, act, and fashion his reality like a man who has discarded his illusions and regained his senses, so that he will move around himself as his own true Sun. Religion is only the illusory Sun which revolves around man as long

 

as he does not revolve around himself.” 

― Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right 

"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God… all this talk about God is sheer nonsense."- Stalin

"In The Jewish Question we read: "For us religion does not constitute the foundation, but only the phenomenon of worldly limitation. For this reason, we explain the religious subjection of free citizens with their earthly subjection. We affirm that they will suppress their religious limitation as soon as they have suppressed their earthly limits. We do not transform earthly questions into theological questions. We transform theological questions into earthly ones" (K. Marx, La questione ebraica, Rome 1966, pp. 81-82)."- Marx

You can look up the rest of the evidence, but it there, and along with millions the Communists/socialists have killed, or left dead.

Basically they don't think our way of life is right; being able to live how you want; being apart from society; being an individual, and have right to guide you're own journey, as god intended; they hate our basis of natural law, and believe their doctrine of collectivism is superior, and will enhance the human race!

Look at the Islamphobia campaigns...

 

Look at Cair...

 

Look at the atheist support for Palestine, and the destruction of Israel....

Look at he media! We are painted as the bad guys, and the wearing away the supports of our country, and then eventually destroy the judeo christian way of life from the face of the war, and then they will destroy themselves.

Russia is using the middle east, and funneling money to every organization causing chaos; all in hopes for the destruction of the United States by pulling us into a global war were everyone else besides the US, and Israel are different, and the rest of countries a bunch of mindless touch wielding mob thinking sheep.

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/103576/the-cold-wars-arab-spring  

I can say so much more, and expand what i said in greater detail, but i don't have all night, and neither do you.

[meritmaster]

the constitution is intentionally broad for this specific reason. Times change.

Wrong. The founders knew times changed, and that's why they made bill of rights; the "self-evident" rights that were gaven by god; Does natural law change?

They laid down basic principles that are apart of being human.

[Fred Castellum]

Every religion gets criticism, Christianity being one of major ones in the US if not the biggest at the moment. You tend to notice this attack on Christianity more than those who aren't part of the religion simply because your are christian. Our minds are set to remember things that are relevant to us, and that we connect with. So that's why it may seem like the hatred towards Christians are more abundant, heck it might actually be more abundant due to the fact Christianity is one the major ones in the US.

 

Shit happens truck on, other religious people get this sort of treatment too. Same with Atheist's and even Agnostics.... 

[Sky Daddy]

I can not and will not tolerate religions that try to exercise authority over people. My problem  is organized religion and those who try to spread their religion. It's like a business trying to stay alive by using telemarketers to sell all their crap.

 

In other words, people need to keep their religious beliefs to themselves and avoid trying to influence others.

[marioo1182]

Hmmmm, yes a very interesting topic indeed.

 

To start off with,

 

Atheism: The belief that no god, godlike nature, superhuman or similar like equivalent exists.}

                                                                                                                                                 }---- Definitions

Religion: The belief of god, and/or the creation of the universe.                                              }

 

Myself I am not American, however like you said Americans have the right to have whichever religion they choose.

Unfortunately in the real world not all people represent these rights at all times. However they fact that saying Atheists mainly bash on Christians is ridiculous. 

I say this because of the definition of an Atheist mentioned above. You may have had this experience because when western culture was first civilized the main religions were Catholicism and Christianity.

In this sense to an Atheist it may often be referred to like this because of the mast majority of people with these religions in the west.

Hopefully that answers that.

 

However in my opinion people just need to educate themselves, instead of inherently bashing others on an issue they know nothing about yet act like they done PhD. thesis papers on it.

[lutewan]

Are you sure? Guess it depends on region. That's like literally the norm in every state I've been to. If you're not a Christian (heaven forbid you happen to be an Atheist or a Muslim), you are treated like the lowest of the scum and called oxymoron things like a "devil worshiper"

 

...

 

I know.

 

I myself, I'll be blunt. I don't give a shit what you are or what you believe in. As long as you are not harming innocent people, brainwashing children (seriously, let kids grow up into adults and decide for themselves, forcing something on a kid is borderline child abuse in my eyes), harassing me at my home with pamphlets I have zero interest in or interfering in my personal life, by all means do whatever.

what state do u live in?

[Mooshi]

what state do u live in?

 

Texas.

 

I've also lived in Kentucky, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, Alabama, visited South Carolina, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas and Washington state. Up in WA, it was whatever, but the bible belt is a different place entirely.

[Mooshi]

The thing I've learned over the years is that even if you don't believe in the same things, to at least respect the person if their being is good. Example, I have born again Christian family members as well as Catholic, my great uncle is even a preacher and I have great respect for the man. Just because I don't believe in the same things, it doesn't mean they are "stupid" or bad people. My great uncle, for example, has even done missionary type work for people living in Mexico. Sometimes you need a little faith in your life from somewhere, doesn't always have to come from believing in a deity.

 

Whenever my uncle preaches, he makes me feel warm inside. It's hard to explain, but faith is a powerful thing. Even dedicated scientists have to have a little faith to believe in their theories.

 

I will say, it's better than being negative with a superiority complex. People like "The Amazing Atheist" are such annoying smug asshats.

[lutewan]

Texas.

 

I've also lived in Kentucky, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, Alabama, visited South Carolina, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas and Washington state. Up in WA, it was whatever, but the bible belt is a different place entirely.

hmm for me i live in California so it has always been "oh u so your Christian

 so u hate gays" 

[Mooshi]

hmm for me i live in California so it has always been "oh u so your Christian

 so u hate gays" 

 

My girlfriend is from California and I don't fit the "stereotypical southern" persona as I lack the accent, have longish hair, don't follow a religion, am pro gay rights and like cute things. Several of our friends are gay and that doesn't change any feelings at all. In a former life, I was probably a Californian.

[Volbet]

As to return to the actual topic here. It all depends on where you are located. 

As a predominantly christian country, the US is bound to have a lot of criticism of christianity. It just makes more sense to criticize what can affect you local community. Muslims, hindues, buddhists don't really have the numbers nor the power to get their religious agenda through. However if they got into powerm and were forcing a religious agenda, people would probably criticize them aswell.

Where I live (Denmark), the most vocal religious group is the muslim minority, so they are the one that gets the most criticism. Eventhough the only account for around 4% of the population. 

This is simply becuase they are the only ones going around condemning people to hell, and trying to force a religious agenda in politics. 

The christians here are pretty much silent. I might also want to say that, depending on the study, there are about 84% atheists, 10% christians, 4 muslims and 2% others in Denmark.

This is pretty ironic when you take into account that Denmarks is actually a christian nation. We have a state church that is protected by the constitution, and the government is supporting and actively embracing the lutheran branch of christianity.

 

Edit: Rereading the OP, I got a bit more to say

 

I personally don't care what you worship or lack thereof. I'll tolerate what you believe and let that be that. I just don't get why people can't be this way? I'm not saying that Christians are absent from this. Oh nononono, certainly not. There are plenty of Christians and other religions guilty of this. But like...in America...ya know...freedom of speech...freedom of religion...freedom of assembly... (I know that plenty of other countries have all of these rights as well, just focusing on America for this thread). So with these rights being in place, I just do not understand why people bash what other people believe. Just tolerate it and move on. It's that simple! No matter you tell that person, they more than likely won't change their mind anyways.

When you put your thoughts and ideas into the great marketplace of ideas, you can expect them to be challenged. Be they religious, political or just personal ideas. 

I, as an atheist, can respect religious people's rights to hold any belief that they want. You can believe in the Abrahamic god, Lord Krishna or the celestial teapot for all i care. 

You have all rights to hold these beliefs and I would never take those rights away form you. You can even get together with like minded.people, to share your ideas about the celestial teapot. Again, I would never take away this right.

 

But when people call me immoral, wicked and evil for not sharing their imaginary friend, I will challenge their ideas. When they throw their ideas into the world, the world may respond.   

Getting your ideas about the world challenged is part of growing as a human. If you shelter yourself from all criticism, you will, most likely, never change your mind about anything. This means that you could hold to false beliefs without even knowing it. 

Of course there are the people that will jump on you for everything. 

[FranBunnyFFXII]

See but this argument can go both ways. I can also say I have a 2 hour video of why you should believe in God and what not. I say what you believe in, keep it to you. But what gets people mad is when you tell them they are wrong.

 

The difference is science and data.

There's so much data in science, and the path of human history is just a testament to the creation of gods by man's fairy tales.

I could post any video what so ever, but without proof and valid scientific data it's pointless.

 

Lawrence M. Krauss, probably one of the most important people associated with my inspired path of education, this is a lecture by him about the nature of the universe.

A religious argument has no facts or data behind it, the source medium is irrelevant to the validity of the facts presented.

[WestcoastPCBuilder]

-Snip- I've noticed that some people who hate on Christianity don't seem to necessarily hate on other religions. I don't ever recall (from personal experience) somebody bashing Islam or Buddhism or Shintoism or whatever. The only other religion that I've seen get bashed on as much as Christianity is Judaism, but that's a topic for another time, although still relevant to the discussion.

 

So why is this?

Buddhism isn't tied to the creation of the world and an afterlife. It's more about attaining nirvana during your lifetime. Nobody knows what Shintoism is. Islam get's bashed hard all the time, 40 virgins after death etc, martyrdom etc.

 

Christianity is the most prolific religion where most of these discussions take place. Christianity also starts from the beginning of time and the beginning of man, there isn't much written and science is on the forefront, so people from Christianity still hanging onto adam and eve as literally happening and the earth forming in 7 days by the hand of god will take a verbal beating. Christianity also has an afterlife involving a heaven and a hell. Since this can't be proven either and the onus is on the one who claims it to be true, an Atheist can have a field day with this one as well.

 

More progressive denominations include science and still stick to their teachings of how one conducts themselves during their life while not preaching to others. The majority of Christian teachings and rituals do not involve incessant worship, strict adherence or requirement to spread the gospel. Rather, the 'religious' part has more to do with building a good foundation in life and prospering while helping out your fellow man.

 

If people want to stereotype all Christians based on their encounters or their research, that is up to them.

[alpenwasser]

Okidoki folks, there has been some action by the moderative

broom, as you have probably noticed. Please keep things

respectful and civil, flamewars are so year 2000.

Thank you very much.

[steffen_anywhere]

I also think that Atheists bash Christians mainly because the more vocal ones (not everyone is this dumb lol) put out videos like this.

 

This video does have a few legitimate points, mainly on the bullying side. I am not from the US so I don't know how bad this problem is, but I can imagine it very well in said 'public schools'. I have heard a few stories about this from friends who are from america.

 

Oh GabeN (found that saying God instead may have been an unfortunate placement of words)... watched the rest. The second part is truly bad... I don't think that any single religion should play a substantial part in a government's decisions. Religious freedom is important. "We are Christ's Army". Really?! If you say you're Mohammad's Army guess what happens...

[xox]

I have a very straightforward answer for you: Antitheism.

 

Basically, these are people who don't get religion and the happiness that it gives to people, so instead, they bash and knock Christians and others who believe in other religions.

These people call themselves atheists, but are really not, because being an atheist is actually an oxy-moron. The whole point of Atheism is that the hypothetical TV of Religion is in the 'off' position, so how is it that people are spending their time to promote their lack of belief, their lack of their TV being on?

I myself am not religious, I used to be, but I just don't see God like I used to. Nothing more, nothing less. I would personally love to be religious, to fit into a group of generally good people who don't hate, judge or generally be a dick. It's nice to know that there are people who have found happiness in religion, but passively, I have not found this yet, and do not wish to pursue this in life as I am sure it will come eventually.

 

Atheists don't understand happiness, or any good from religion generally. Many think that this world would be better without. Many people think that religion is horrific and wrong, promoting extremes and humanitarian problems. Whilst this is true in some places, generally, this is a false assumption, made by people who have no fucking clue to be brutally honest. Islam, for example, is a great religion promoting peace, love and understanding. Unfortunately, you have enthusiasts, who send missiles into Israel, planes into towers and pentagonal shaped buildings and bombs into London buses. However, most Muslims are wholly against this act (and, it is worth noting, extremism too). As are Christians with the whole Northern Ireland matter. IRA bombers still present a problem to the UK to this day, just because they can't accept that they are never going to win, ever.

 

So what I would do is ignore these ignorant rascals, who are just too into their religion and be happy atheists, Christians and/or whatever you want. We are free in this world, we have the freedom to do whatever we want whenever the fuck we want.

 

And just as a note: It's Shinto, not Shintoism

[ForsakenLive]

To be able to discuss properly, we must understand the roots of the matter. The foundation of religions such as Christianity come from way back in the day.

Religion comes from 'religiosus' which in latin means to be scrupulous. It's not directly bound to a belief, but back in the day you were forced to believe if you wanted to be seen as someone decent.

Believers of god are theocrats, the ones under the 'kratos' (power (government) ) of Theo (god). That's the actual Latin term of religion.

Atheists are 'atheo' where 'a' means no and 'Theo' god, they are the opposite of theocrats, just that. As the years went by, atheists were seen as complete no believers of anything, people with no motivation, anarchists and enemies of what's right.

[techswede]

Oh i love a good discussion about religion 

I was raised in an atheist family, My grandmother on my fathers side and my uncle on my mothers side being the exeption. 

The school years were always started and ended in church where we sang a few songs and recited some prayers. But that always felt like something that was just traditional. + the priest rode a harley. How cool is that

When i got into martial arts i was exposed to Buddhism. More specifically Bushido, And i was immediately sold on the whole "Life in every breath" and living in the moment mentality.

My family and friends were of course confused by this. But they accepted it and we all moved on. So i guess i was lucky in that sence.

 

This of course has the side effects of both Atheism and Christianity. Die-Hard Christians and Atheists will argue with me about my personal faith when they find out. 

But this is mostly my neighbours. (1 almost extremist Christian and our local church which is about 500m from my apartment.. I always get two of everything they send out. And i was given a free subscription to a Christian magazine)

Thankfully they are a minority. And most Christians i've met have been polite and our discussions have been civil. It's the same thing with the Muslims i've talked to. 

 

And i do love the religion class in school. I always take it when i can because the discussions are always interesting since the school has people from many different walks of life and faiths.

The school librairy is also a place that i hang out in quite a bit. And in there they have the Bible,Koran,Some books by the dalai lama,Some books about confucious,Miamoto Musashis "The book of five rings" Standing right next to "The god delusion" by Richard dawkins.

And i am a bit of a Dawkins fan. His books are really interesting. "The selfish gene" is a personal favourite and it's a great read if you have an interest in psychology.

 

In the end im not bothered by other peoples religions as long as they aren't hurting anyone / Trying to shove it down my throat.

And i'll happily talk about their religions as long as the discussion is two sided. So they aren't talking at me instead of to me.