[Rumour] Windows 9 revamped activation system (DRM)

[Builder]

That's good to know, I might find a torrent and have a play. It will be interesting to see if this makes a change to their OS market share.

Well a torrent would still be illegal because they're not an authorized distributor, and I doubt it will change their OS market share because it only runs on Macs, but by all means try it. My point was more that with Apple you don't have to deal with this DRM bullshit and you get free upgrades for life.

 

Also, when I realized you didn't know OS X was free, I thought of this:

 

[samuel]

I'm actually confortable reinstalling windows once per month. (hopefully there is still a trial period). I get it, software is not free but it's still too expensive for a $300 monthly payement. I love you Romania! 

[mr moose]

Well a torrent would still be illegal because they're not an authorized distributor, and I doubt it will change their OS market share because it only runs on Macs, but by all means try it. My point was more that with Apple you don't have to deal with this DRM bullshit and you get free upgrades for life.

 

Also, when I realized you didn't know OS X was free, I thought of this:

 

 

Well I don't really need it and I see no justification in spending extra for a mac. So I really have no reason to know whether it's free or not.  

 

Besides windows lasts me on average 7 years and costs $80 a pop, given that I would upgrade every 5 years or so and macs having a $300 premium over my average pc. So in order to qualify for the free os I have to spend $600 more. 

[TheBLOODYTOXIC]

In before "derp you just want to pirate it!".

I got a DreamSpark Premium account...

 

Gotta love College, m8

Good Bless Dreamspark!

[LAwLz]

Yes, another company will make an OS that will supplant Windows and MS.

Apple is the closest and they are only several dozen percentages behind MS market share. Pray tell, who would take over?

I don't think he said it will happen, but that he hopes it happens. I agree with him.

Microsoft really needs a true competitor in the desktop and laptop space.

I don't think it will happen, but it would be good if it did.

[LAwLz]

I would like to know how you propose it won't stop pirates?  Even if the activation component of windows is removed to prevent it from phoning home, the OS then becomes  dead weight with no updates or patches.

It will be beat. For example if it doesn't call home all the time then they could inject whatever code tells the OS it is activated before it is loaded (like Daz does now).

If it does phone home then you could spoof an activation server. Also, if it does phone home then I really really hope there is a huge uproar like there was with the Xbone because that shit is inexcusable.

[mr moose]

It will be beat. For example if it doesn't call home all the time then they could inject whatever code tells the OS it is activated before it is loaded (like Daz does now).

If it does phone home then you could spoof an activation server. Also, if it does phone home then I really really hope there is a huge uproar like there was with the Xbone because that shit is inexcusable.

it does phone home, that's where the motherboard details are registered to the user.  Without cross referencing the motherboard details with store account the os won't update, or at least that's how I read it.

 

EDIT: when I say phone home I simply mean that it pings/logs the activation server to confirm it is legit by checking the user account details with the mobo details.

[brownninja97]

Fucking wankers

[LAwLz]

it does phone home, that's where the motherboard details are registered to the user.  Without cross referencing the motherboard details with store account the os won't update, or at least that's how I read it.

 

EDIT: when I say phone home I simply mean that it pings the activation server to confirm it is legit by checking the user account details with the mobo details.

Well when I said "phone home" I meant that it does it periodically (without you trying to update or something like that). That's what I am strongly against as well, especially now that we know Microsoft has been working with the NSA to harvest data from users.

 

Anyway, spoofing the activation server would deal with it no matter how they implement it. That's how many games bypass things like Steam.

I would be very surprised if this stupid DRM doesn't get beat.

[mr moose]

Well when I said "phone home" I meant that it does it periodically (without you trying to update or something like that). That's what I am strongly against as well, especially now that we know Microsoft has been working with the NSA to harvest data from users.

 

Anyway, spoofing the activation server would deal with it no matter how they implement it. That's how many games bypass things like Steam.

I would be very surprised if this stupid DRM doesn't get beat.

 

Which is what I said earlier, if they remove the activation component then you loose the ability to update.  

[LAwLz]

Which is what I said earlier, if they remove the activation component then you loose the ability to update.  

Not necessarily. We don't know how it will work but again, I'd be very surprised if they don't find a away around it.

Worst case scenario the updates will be downloaded from some other server, or use a legit Windows install as a proxy or something like that.

[rhyseyness]

Finally! It will be easy to change out a motherboard and transfer windows licence to a new machine!

[mr moose]

Not necessarily. We don't know how it will work but again, I'd be very surprised if they don't find a away around it.

Worst case scenario the updates will be downloaded from some other server, or use a legit Windows install as a proxy or something like that.

sounds possible, but a bit of messing about to save $10 a year. 

[Builder]

Well I don't really need it and I see no justification in spending extra for a mac. So I really have no reason to know whether it's free or not.  

 

Besides windows lasts me on average 7 years and costs $80 a pop, given that I would upgrade every 5 years or so and macs having a $300 premium over my average pc. So in order to qualify for the free os I have to spend $600 more. 

It lasts you seven years? Wow. I always managed to bork my installs before then

 

Trust me, when you eventually buy a MacBook, you will be wondering how you ever used any other laptop. (I am now, and as we have discussed I was a vehement proponent and user of Windows for ~15 years all the way through to Windows 8)

[Mojo-Jojo]

Woot! Woot! Woot! Woot! That is a great idea, makes sense, and at the moment I can't think of ways for people to bypass it.

 

Nice Job Microsoft, get the money that you deserve.

People still use "woot"?

[mr moose]

It lasts you seven years? Wow. I always managed to bork my installs before then

 

Trust me, when you eventually buy a MacBook, you will be wondering how you ever used any other laptop. (I am now, and as we have discussed I was a vehement proponent and user of Windows for ~15 years all the way through to Windows 8)

 

I have three laptops: Linux, xp and vista, the vista machine has been running for 7 years (since release), the Linux machine for 3 years and the xp for about 5 years.  I predominately use the linux machine. (which I have been told is close to MAC, but I don't see it when I use macs)  but have no problems with any of them.

On my desktop I had XP from 2001 until 2012 (11years) and then the upgrade to 7 which I see no reason to change for the next 5 years.  I just don't see a need to upgrade the O.S. 

 

So yeah, that might explain why I jump on threads where people are complaining.  I see a big corporation making a money grab but I don't see them giving us the shit stick in return, we are getting capable software.  

[Builder]

I have three laptops: Linux, xp and vista, the vista machine has been running for 7 years (since release), the Linux machine for 3 years and the xp for about 5 years.  I predominately use the linux machine. (which I have been told is close to MAC, but I don't see it when I use macs)  but have no problems with any of them.

On my desktop I had XP from 2001 until 2012 (11years) and then the upgrade to 7 which I see no reason to change for the next 5 years.  I just don't see a need to upgrade the O.S. 

 

So yeah, that might explain why I jump on threads where people are complaining.  I see a big corporation making a money grab but I don't see them giving us the shit stick in return, we are getting capable software.  

Whoever told you that Linux is close to Mac doesn't understand Linux or Mac. The only thing they share is UNIX certification which you'd only notice if you were a command line user, which I don't know if you are.

 

Vista was decent by SP2, it just confounds me how Windows manages to have a 20GB install size. OS X and Linux are practically lightweight compared to Windows, and I'm not sure any Linux user or OS X user would all it that. Microsoft is experiencing feature creep, and on top of that they can't rev their software as quickly as they used to. Vista was what signaled that, because Vista was supposed to be Longhorn but like I said, they had to release it half finished and it's debatable whether Longhorn was ever really completed.

 

Apple revs OS X every year, to keep it fresh. They have now decided that nobody should have to pay for that, even when they add innovations every year like memory compression. Lately people have been thinking they're going to switch to ZFS in 10.11, which would be an enormous boost to stability and functionality and possibly performance as well. I can now expect new features and revised internals every year for free, which I'd much rather have than using a single Windows installation for 10 years. You may be getting capable software, but I don't want capable software. I want cutting edge advanced software that gets better every year for free. That's why I like OpenBSD as well.

 

Microsoft won't be doing that any time soon, and thus I don't think Windows is worth paying for. I think OS X is, but they don't even want to make me pay

[LAwLz]

Whoever told you that Linux is close to Mac doesn't understand Linux or Mac. The only thing they share is UNIX certification which you'd only notice if you were a command line user, which I don't know if you are.

GNU/Linux is not Unix certified.

Being POSIX compliant (which is what makes them share a lot of similarities with each other, although GNU/Linux is just "mostly complaint") is far more than just a command prompt as well.

[mr moose]

Whoever told you that Linux is close to Mac doesn't understand Linux or Mac. The only thing they share is UNIX certification which you'd only notice if you were a command line user, which I don't know if you are.

 

Vista was decent by SP2, it just confounds me how Windows manages to have a 20GB install size. OS X and Linux are practically lightweight compared to Windows, and I'm not sure any Linux user or OS X user would all it that. Microsoft is experiencing feature creep, and on top of that they can't rev their software as quickly as they used to. Vista was what signaled that, because Vista was supposed to be Longhorn but like I said, they had to release it half finished and it's debatable whether Longhorn was ever really completed.

 

Apple revs OS X every year, to keep it fresh. They have now decided that nobody should have to pay for that, even when they add innovations every year like memory compression. Lately people have been thinking they're going to switch to ZFS in 10.11, which would be an enormous boost to stability and functionality and possibly performance as well. I can now expect new features and revised internals every year for free, which I'd much rather have than using a single Windows installation for 10 years. You may be getting capable software, but I don't want capable software. I want cutting edge advanced software that gets better every year for free. That's why I like OpenBSD as well.

 

Microsoft won't be doing that any time soon, and thus I don't think Windows is worth paying for. I think OS X is, but they don't even want to make me pay

 

except that depending on the type of hardware you need you do pay for it.  as I said earlier there is a $300 difference between the pc I have and the nearest mac I could get at the time (yes I looked I check all my options).  That's enough to buy almost 20 years of windows, upgrading every 5 years to the latest. No pc (apple or otherwise) will survive obsolescence over that length of time. So the difference is in windows favor from the perspective of price.

 

It might be a different story if you need osx for any particular reason, however I don't, what windows can't do Linux can.  In my particular situation apple offers me nothing that makes the extra cost worth it.

 

EDIT: I don't code, but I do find myself helping people use them, and I see some similarities but not many,  I would probably be happier with it if that wiley wacky mouse scrolled the right way up  :wacko:    and the interface was a little bit more familiar (hence why I said I might get a copy to play with).

[Builder]

GNU/Linux is not Unix certified.

Being POSIX compliant (which is what makes them share a lot of similarities with each other, although GNU/Linux is just "mostly complaint") is far more than just a command prompt as well.

http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/4091/is-linux-a-unix

 

It's debatable. It's been said that BSD is what you get when you ask engineers to take UNIX and port it to a bunch of different platforms and Linux is what you get when you ask engineers to build UNIX from scratch and port that to a bunch of different platforms. Linux was designed to implement the UNIX specification without using UNIX code.

 

OS X passes the SUS and Linux is nearly full POSIX compliant, which is what I considered to be "certified UNIX" because as mentioned in the above Stack Exchange thread, Linux can be used to build non-POSIX systems however GNU/Linux can be considered POSIX compliant for all intents and purposes.

[Guest acdcman200]

Will it just be doing all of this automatically? or do i actually have to look up the specific parts to download? I have no problem if it does it automatically during the start up process.

[Builder]

except that depending on the type of hardware you need you do pay for it.  as I said earlier there is a $300 difference between the pc I have and the nearest mac I could get at the time (yes I looked I check all my options).  That's enough to buy almost 20 years of windows, upgrading every 5 years to the latest. No pc (apple or otherwise) will survive obsolescence over that length of time. So the difference is in windows favor from the perspective of price.

 

It might be a different story if you need osx for any particular reason, however I don't, what windows can't do Linux can.  In my particular situation apple offers me nothing that makes the extra cost worth it.

 

EDIT: I don't code, but I do find myself helping people use them, and I see some similarities but not many,  I would probably be happier with it if that wiley wacky mouse scrolled the right way up  :wacko:    and the interface was a little bit more familiar (hence why I said I might get a copy to play with).

I'm not sure what your PC specs are, but I have to say that at least for laptops you definitely get all of what you pay for, the damn things last forever (my MacBook has survived three drops with the screen open onto a concrete floor, I think largely due to it having only a single fan as its moving part) and once you get into it OS X does a lot of things more "naturally" than Windows, e.g. the "natural" scrolling is a big deal for some people but I switch so much between iPhone and MacBook that I can't stand anything but reversed scrolling now.

 

The extra cost is worth it for me because I seriously need a UNIX terminal (it might even be an addiction, I just can't stand cmd.exe) and I find the UI to be far superior. You can actually even install custom window managers on it. The extra cost is also justified by the superior build quality and high standard of what qualifies as parts for a laptop. All the new laptops have PCIe SSDs, accurate IPS screens, great trackpads and keyboards, backlit keyboard, MagSafe, Thunderbolt, etc. Apple actually doesn't use USB 2.0 ports any more, any USB port that you see on an Apple device these days is USB 3.0. 

[neon]

Will it just be doing all of this automatically? or do i actually have to look up the specific parts to download? I have no problem if it does it automatically during the start up process.

 

I strongly suspect you will install the Windows just as you do now, and then either in initial setup or just after the first boot into the OS you will sign in with your Account ID and it will activate, like Windows 7 there might be a 30 day unactivated Window before you need to activate, this would help if you don't have internet during first setup.

 

I can't really think of a legitimate argument against this, it has worked for years with iTunes and in a similar way Steam, if it stops the scum pirating it and is not needlessly intrusive then it's fine by me, and it makes it easier to move the OS to different computers.

[mr moose]

 

The extra cost is worth it for me because I seriously need a UNIX terminal (it might even be an addiction, I just can't stand cmd.exe) and I find the UI to be far superior. You can actually even install custom window managers on it. The extra cost is also justified by the superior build quality and high standard of what qualifies as parts for a laptop. All the new laptops have PCIe SSDs, accurate IPS screens, great trackpads and keyboards, backlit keyboard, MagSafe, Thunderbolt, etc. Apple actually doesn't use USB 2.0 ports any more, any USB port that you see on an Apple device these days is USB 3.0. 

there you go, I don't need UNIX terminals or accurate IPS (no photo/video work), I have never noticed a difference in the trackpad and I don't need thunderbolt.  My vista laptop (my oldest one) is a $500 acer, still going strong, even outlasted my sister in-laws macbook.   My xp is an Asus eepc netbook.  And my Linux is a Toshiba laptop (t100 from memory) It was the model after the battery recall. all good as gold and not penny spent on any of them.

 

My main pc is in my profile,  It plays all the games and does all the work I need it to. I might upgrade the GPU once before my next complete upgrade in 4-5 years.

[Builder]

there you go, I don't need UNIX terminals or accurate IPS (no photo/video work), I have never noticed a difference in the trackpad and I don't need thunderbolt.  My vista laptop (my oldest one) is a $500 acer, still going strong, even outlasted my sister in-laws macbook.   My xp is an Asus eepc netbook.  And my Linux is a Toshiba laptop (t100 from memory) It was the model after the battery recall. all good as gold and not penny spent on any of them.

 

My main pc is in my profile,  It plays all the games and does all the work I need it to. I might upgrade the GPU once before my next complete upgrade in 4-5 years.

Never noticed a difference in the trackpad? Wow. That's the first thing most of my converts notice is how spacious and accurate the trackpad is.

 

The build quality is still by far the best that I've ever experienced, and the OS is just so damn consistent.