Airflow Optimization

[Mr_Roboto]

Hey all!

 

I am working on getting the best airflow for my set up. My case is the Phanteks XT Pro Ultra. About to buy 3 more 120 fans. Working on best placement was planning on two on bottom(intake) and one on top (exhaust). 
picture should be attached. 
I’m thinking this would be how it works, but I’m no aerospace engineer so maybe someone knows better. 
currently have 4 140 fans and the 2 120 of the CPU cooler

[Dedayog]

6 minutes ago, Mr_Roboto said:

Hey all!

 

I am working on getting the best airflow for my set up. My case is the Phanteks XT Pro Ultra. About to buy 3 more 120 fans. Working on best placement was planning on two on bottom(intake) and one on top (exhaust). 
picture should be attached. 
I’m thinking this would be how it works, but I’m no aerospace engineer so maybe someone knows better. 
currently have 4 140 fans and the 2 120 of the CPU cooler

Forego the bottom intake, if they're obstructed by the PSU  and cabling.

 

I'd get 2x 140's for the top exhaust, placed as far rear as possble.

 

 

[YoungBlade]

Fluid dynamics are very complex. There could be unexpected things that factor in here. The only way to know for sure would be with extensive controlled testing.

 

However, looking at your setup, I'd just add a single exhaust fan in the top as far to the back as possible and call it a day. The bottom fans probably won't do much.

 

The upside of the other fan is it should help to equalize airflow - you've almost certainly got a positive pressure situation right now. And there is a potential downside of having another fan above the front intake for the CPU cooler. It could draw away cold air from the front intake and blow it right back out the top of the case before it can do any heat exchange. By keeping both intakes behind the CPU cooler, it should create a lower pressure area behind the cooler that promotes air moving through the CPU cooler before going out of the case.

 

With that said, if it's anything like my system, adding an extra exhaust fan up top, while improving CPU cooling, actually harms GPU cooling, as less air ends up making it to the graphics card. So there's a balance here to be found.

 

Again, testing is the only way to know for sure that you've got an optimal configuration.

[podkall]

I wouldn't worry about it, the air flows, and more intake means less dust generally. Just look at your temps, they're probably fine.

[Lurking]

Use largest possible fans. If 140mm fans fit, don't usev120mm.

 

Definitely do the back rear exhaust fan since that prevents warm CPU cooler air to recirculate. The rear top exhaust may help. Do all front air intakes.

 

I don't know what's going on under that shroud. Depending on openings, or lack thereof, those may be useless fan locations. Does the PSU take air in from the bottom?

[Mark Kaine]

On 5/8/2024 at 10:24 PM, Mr_Roboto said:

Hey all!

 

I am working on getting the best airflow for my set up. My case is the Phanteks XT Pro Ultra. About to buy 3 more 120 fans. Working on best placement was planning on two on bottom(intake) and one on top (exhaust). 
picture should be attached. 
I’m thinking this would be how it works, but I’m no aerospace engineer so maybe someone knows better. 
currently have 4 140 fans and the 2 120 of the CPU cooler

the lower fans literally make no sense,  all your doing is blow hot air from your psu (yes they do get pretty warm) onto your gpu. 

 

if you care about airflow i would recommend an airflow optimized case instead of those pseudo ones, such as

 

https://www.newegg.com/blue-white-zeaginal-zc-09-micro-atx/p/2AM-05DU-00034?source=f

 

or

 

https://www.newegg.com/white-blue-zeaginal-zc-01m-micro-atx/p/2AM-05DU-00044

 

 

tldr: you gotta understand best airflow is what gets hot air *out* as fast as possible,  what you drew and what your case design partly suggests is a circulation of warm air almost for forever with minimal possibility for it to exit, ie, think about it more as a wind tunnel instead of the idea that your fans have enough power to actively "cool" the components (they don't,  far from it, and they aren't designed for that either,they're simply designed to move as much air as possible  - out of a pc case) 

[Lurking]

4 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

the lower fans literally make no sense,  all your doing is blow hot air from your psu (yes they do get pretty warm) onto your gpu. 

 

if you care about airflow i would recommend an airflow optimized case instead of those pseudo ones, such as

 

https://www.newegg.com/blue-white-zeaginal-zc-09-micro-atx/p/2AM-05DU-00034?source=f

 

or

 

https://www.newegg.com/white-blue-zeaginal-zc-01m-micro-atx/p/2AM-05DU-00044

 

 

tldr: you gotta understand best airflow is what gets hot air *out* as fast as possible,  what you drew and what your case design partly suggests is a circulation of warm air almost for forever with minimal possibility for it to exit, ie, think about it more as a wind tunnel instead of the idea that your fans have enough power to actively "cool" the components (they don't,  far from it, and they aren't designed for that either,they're simply designed to move as much air as possible  - out of a pc case) 

Those cases look like what AliExpress sells with no openings at all .. and even if they have some airflow, for less than that price OP could just buy a Fractal Torrent Compact and never ever have to think about or discuss fan placement ever again. 

[thrasher_565]

can do 3 on the bottom as intake or 2 on the bottom and one top back as exhaust

if you wanted to max it out could do top back exhaust, top midle exhaust or empty, top front as intake, with bottom 3 intake but it probably want improve things much over just adding fans on the bottem

[Stahlmann]

Controversial take: Don't change anything. You already have 4 case fans in a positive pressure setup. You probably won't see a significant drop in temperature by using even more unless you're running a 14900K and 4090 setup.

[Mark Kaine]

5 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

Controversial take: Don't change anything. You already have 4 case fans in a positive pressure setup. You probably won't see a significant drop in temperature by using even more unless you're running a 14900K and 4090 setup.

yh this... i would remove the lower fans tho definitely, they're probably disturbing the overall airflow and wont do much in general... case is what i call a "hotbox" design anyway  

[Ralfi]

On 5/13/2024 at 3:26 AM, Mark Kaine said:

if you care about airflow i would recommend an airflow optimized case instead of those pseudo ones

The description for the case mentions it is airflow focused:

 

”The Phanteks XT Pro Ultra D-RGB Tempered Glass Case Black features a tempered glass side panel, ultra-fine mesh front panel for improved airflow and dust filtration”

 

In which case, the OP is almost there with their fan setup - all I’d suggest is one more exhaust fan (top-rear). Being 140mm fans, you should be able to set up fan curves that minimise noise, yet give decent cooling.

 

The two bottom intakes wouldn’t make much difference, well apart from extra noise & obstacles for the flow of your main cool air coming in from the front.

 

So I’d say 3 in, 2 out. 

[Lurking]

1 minute ago, Ralfi said:

The description for the case mentions it is airflow focused:

 

”The Phanteks XT Pro Ultra D-RGB Tempered Glass Case Black features a tempered glass side panel, ultra-fine mesh front panel for improved airflow and dust filtration”

 

In which case, the OP is almost there with their fan setup - all I’d suggest is one more exhaust fan (top-rear). Being 140mm fans, you should be able to set up fan curves that minimise noise, yet give decent cooling.

 

The two bottom intakes wouldn’t make much difference, well apart from extra noise & obstacles for the flow of your main cool air coming in from the front.

 

So I’d say 3 in, 2 out. 

I would rely on a good independent test and not just take the manufacturer by their Word. 

[Ralfi]

5 minutes ago, Lurking said:

I would rely on a good independent test and not just take the manufacturer by their Word. 

I meant that the front is mesh, which is much better than having a solid/partial vented front.

(I presumed @Mark Kaine thought the front of the case was tempered glass…apologies if incorrect).

[RevGAM]

On 5/8/2024 at 4:24 PM, Mr_Roboto said:

Hey all!

 

I am working on getting the best airflow for my set up. My case is the Phanteks XT Pro Ultra. About to buy 3 more 120 fans. Working on best placement was planning on two on bottom(intake) and one on top (exhaust). 
picture should be attached. 
I’m thinking this would be how it works, but I’m no aerospace engineer so maybe someone knows better. 
currently have 4 140 fans and the 2 120 of the CPU cooler

IMHO, you have a good idea. All that remains is testing to verify. It is possible you may find a better configuration if you do. 

 

You could, as Mark suggested, focus on exhausting air. The only problem is that will introduce more dust into your PC, requiring more frequent cleaning. 

 

I concur:

On 5/14/2024 at 4:49 AM, Stahlmann said:

Controversial take: Don't change anything. You already have 4 case fans in a positive pressure setup. You probably won't see a significant drop in temperature by using even more unless you're running a 14900K and 4090 setup.

 

[Mark Kaine]

On 5/19/2024 at 10:18 PM, Ralfi said:

I meant that the front is mesh, which is much better than having a solid/partial vented front.

(I presumed @Mark Kaine thought the front of the case was tempered glass…apologies if incorrect).

well i meant what i said these cases are literally hot box designs, a front mesh only alleviates the issue slightly but it does not change the overall design of these cases.

 

On 5/19/2024 at 10:11 PM, Ralfi said:

The description for the case mentions it is airflow focused:

yeah, did you look at what I linked?  those are "airflow focused" designs, not air trapping hotboxes

 

aka

 

[Ralfi]

15 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

not air trapping hotboxes

We may have a different view of what air trapping hot boxes are. 
 

The case in the OP looks like a 4000D Airflow design, which is very good at keeping temps down. 
 

(can’t load your other links now as the internet is frustratingly bad here).

[RevGAM]

On 5/12/2024 at 1:26 PM, Mark Kaine said:

the lower fans literally make no sense,  all your doing is blow hot air from your psu (yes they do get pretty warm) onto your gpu. 

 

if you care about airflow i would recommend an airflow optimized case instead of those pseudo ones, such as

 

https://www.newegg.com/blue-white-zeaginal-zc-09-micro-atx/p/2AM-05DU-00034?source=f

 

or

 

https://www.newegg.com/white-blue-zeaginal-zc-01m-micro-atx/p/2AM-05DU-00044

 

 

tldr: you gotta understand best airflow is what gets hot air *out* as fast as possible,  what you drew and what your case design partly suggests is a circulation of warm air almost for forever with minimal possibility for it to exit, ie, think about it more as a wind tunnel instead of the idea that your fans have enough power to actively "cool" the components (they don't,  far from it, and they aren't designed for that either,they're simply designed to move as much air as possible  - out of a pc case) 

I'm gonna be blunt here, Mark. These cases are art pieces. They are partially open, so they're going to have some interesting airflow. They give very little actually valuable info on the Zeaginal website. I think they're trying to rival Thermalright and SAMA in not giving enough info. They look interesting but they spent so much of the page showing us the exterior over and over again with marketing hype, yet...Why didn't they provide images that highlight the features? Where are the close-ups, such as of the front I/O panel?

Here are some comments on what little of value they actually tell.

They have this info for the 07:

model number                   Z07  Mid Tower      

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material                   Aluminum, tempered glass, silicone

---

工艺                   Laser cutting, CNC engraving, CNC punching, bending, sandblasting, anodizing, etc. So what? This is about aesthetic work, not functionality.

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尺寸                   Height: 550mm   Width: 225mm   Depth: 590mm Kinda thin for something that supports all mobo sizes.

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Radiator height limit         166mm Support 360mm cold row, no thickness limit Just 120, 240 & 360 - no 140mm fan variants.

                          Do-it-yourself ability to support multiple fan designs   In other words, we have to figure out how to attach fans, except that back spot. The NE listing says: "6 Fan slots: Support 360mm/240mm Liquid Cooler or 120mm Fan*6" - but where are the mounting positions other than the back ONE?

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Motherboard Support            Full size support Is this actually true? Pico to eATX? We can put in a Raspberry Pi? The fact that they didn't even show us the mounting holes properly, just through smoked glass, suggests this is an unfinished product + "Do-it-yourself ability to support multiple fan designs" I see no holes for really small mobos. If this were really such a creative case, they'd have a creative way to accommodate any mobo, like maybe rails for adjustability. But wait, the listing on NE only shows "Support ATX/ M-ATX/ITX Motherboard", not "Full size support"!

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Graphics Card Support            Supports up to 350mm video card length  Good but too narrow for vertical mounting of most GCs with all that glass in the way.

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Hard Disk Support            Dual hard drive design, supports two solid state or two mechanical That's all? So sad. The listing implies that it's 2 of each.

                         Or a single hybrid configuration Well, that's such a relief.

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characteristics                   No physical keys USB，Sounds like that means there's no front I/O panel. Oh, there is one barely visible in one image with headset and mic jacks and one USB 3.0 A? port. Underwhelming.

                          One-touch switch restart, support split water-cooled and air-cooled design.  

---

Yeah, this case may look intriguing but I wouldn't buy it unless I had verified that it's actually functional.

Edited Tuesday at 08:14 AM by RevGAM

[Mr_Roboto]

On 5/11/2024 at 10:09 PM, Lurking said:

Use largest possible fans. If 140mm fans fit, don't usev120mm.

 

Definitely do the back rear exhaust fan since that prevents warm CPU cooler air to recirculate. The rear top exhaust may help. Do all front air intakes.

 

I don't know what's going on under that shroud. Depending on openings, or lack thereof, those may be useless fan locations. Does the PSU take air in from the bottom?

Sorry for the late response, but yes, the PSU is taking air from the bottom

[Mark Kaine]

On 5/21/2024 at 10:13 AM, RevGAM said:

Yeah, this case may look intriguing but I wouldn't buy it unless I had verified that it's actually functional.

they're tested by multiple outlets, they're more than functional.... those comments are kinda toxic and certainly most irrelevant, "there's too much glass for the gpu to fit"... ok  

 

you understand those are all open air designs right?   cooling will be a lot better than in conventional closed box designs (and yes a front air opening helps of course but doesn't change the overall design) 

 

the only real issue with these cases is dust... to which there's a pretty easy solution 

 

 

[RevGAM]

32 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

they're tested by multiple outlets, they're more than functional.... those comments are kinda toxic and certainly most irrelevant, "there's too much glass for the gpu to fit"... ok  

Ok, Mr. Boss, throw me a link or two so I can see what they found with the case at hand and built. 

 

Toxic is in the mind of the person who perceived it, since I meant nothing toxic, merely stating all the reasons why I feel doubtful about that fan.  What IS toxic is that you refuted only 1 thing i pointed out, and one of them with toxicity, so...

 

You clearly either didn't read carefully or didn't understand my comment about GPUs. Read again. 

35 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

you understand those are all open air designs right?   cooling will be a lot better than in conventional closed box designs (and yes a front air opening helps of course but doesn't change the overall design) 

Yes, after carefully examining every photo, I came to the believe that there is a lot of ventilation of the large variety. As you said, dust. 

 

As I pointed out, there are many things about this case that could be better, even if we ignore the marketing drivel. 

 

You're welcome to feel differently, but any time photos don't amply show the products functional value, that should be a clue that, functionally, it is lacking.