The beauty of the Linux ecosystem

[CosmicEmotion]

I recently had overheating issues on Linux and thus booted into Windows when trying to play any games. Until that also didn't work anymore. Having Turbo and Ultimate Profiles on for CPU and GPU in Armoury Crate apparently wasn't enough to set the fans at the proper speed (I had also taken the laptop to service and the issue still wasn't resolved) so Ii decided to look into different solutions on Linux, since it's my main OS.

 

This has nothing to do with the thermal issues I was having (asusctl resolved all of these since I can graphically set the fans to be at 100% on high temps) but as I was researching Linux distros to use I suddenly came to the realization that the diversity of the Linux ecosystem is so useful to so many people.

 

• Want something that just works? Linux Mint and BazziteOS are your best friends.
• Want something that has the latest and greatest? Arch and Arch-based is your friend.
• Want to use your new PC to the max of its capabilities? CachyOS with its v3 and v4 compiled packages for newer CPUs literally leaves any other OS (Linux or Windows) behind.
• Want something as secure as possible? Silverblue, Bazzite and MicroOS are there to have your back.
• Went something reproducible you can install easily to as many machines as possible? NixOS and BlendOS are outstanding choices.

 

Many people think that this diversity is problematic but I think people need to think outside of the box. A PC is a holistic system from hardware to software. If people went to the shop and could choose something for their use case EXACTLY then the world would be a much better place functioning much better.

 

• For example, a student PC could come with lower specs and Linux Mint preinstalled.
• A gaming PC, would have high specs and CahcyOS to make the best of its capabilities.
• A work PC, would use something like Silverblue for Security.

 

It's this abundance of choice that makes Linux so great as well and I think a lot of people oversee that.

[Gat Pelsinger]

Shush. Debian and Arch supreme. Period.

[jaslion]

There's an ecosystem?

 

Thought it was just black magic, faery dust and lots of ducktape that make different divces communicate? Like windows!

 

Keep in mind we do know the ingredients and formulas for those practicea tho! So thats a bonus

 

 

 

 

[AndreiArgeanu]

idk, I use ubuntu extensively for development, and tried to install some other distros, but god damn does Linux not like secure boot, TPM and other similar features. I hate having to enrol random keys for secure boot, why doesn't Linux do it itself, why can Windows but Lindon't?

 

Linux is definitely nice, and so far much more stable (the OS, doesn't always apply for some of the software I use) for me, but I'd find it hard to use it personally for gaming or using random somewhat obscure software or even more popular stuff, but it makes the perfect development environment.

[Eigenvektor]

Quote

I hate having to enrol random keys for secure boot, why doesn't Linux do it itself, why can Windows but Lindon't?

Because those Microsoft keys are pre-installed, since secure boot if effectively a Microsoft feature?

 

If an OS could simply enroll new keys during installation, it wouldn't really protect against anything.

[PDifolco]

52 minutes ago, CosmicEmotion said:

I recently had overheating issues on Linux and thus booted into Windows when trying to play any games. Until that also didn't work anymore. Having Turbo and Ultimate Profiles on for CPU and GPU in Armoury Crate apparently wasn't enough to set the fans at the proper speed (I had also taken the laptop to service and the issue still wasn't resolved) so Ii decided to look into different solutions on Linux, since it's my main OS.

 

This has nothing to do with the thermal issues I was having (asusctl resolved all of these since I can graphically set the fans to be at 100% on high temps) but as I was researching Linux distros to use I suddenly came to the realization that the diversity of the Linux ecosystem is so useful to so many people.

 

• Want something that just works? Linux Mint and BazziteOS are your best friends.
• Want something that has the latest and greatest? Arch and Arch-based is your friend.
• Want to use your new PC to the max of its capabilities? CachyOS with its v3 and v4 compiled packages for newer CPUs literally leaves any other OS (Linux or Windows) behind.
• Want something as secure as possible? Silverblue, Bazzite and MicroOS are there to have your back.
• Went something reproducible you can install easily to as many machines as possible? NixOS and BlendOS are outstanding choices.

 

Many people think that this diversity is problematic but I think people need to think outside of the box. A PC is a holistic system from hardware to software. If people went to the shop and could choose something for their use case EXACTLY then the world would be a much better place functioning much better.

 

• For example, a student PC could come with lower specs and Linux Mint preinstalled.
• A gaming PC, would have high specs and CahcyOS to make the best of its capabilities.
• A work PC, would use something like Silverblue for Security.

 

It's this abundance of choice that makes Linux so great as well and I think a lot of people oversee that.

That's a nice way of seeing it, but for most Joes it looks like a messy jungle  

 

[CosmicEmotion]

18 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

That's a nice way of seeing it, but for most Joes it looks like a messy jungle  

 

I get what you mean but I think that people will adjust to the concept of choice the more Linux becomes more prevalent. There are some base distros like Mint or Bazzite that most people wil use and the more involved ones will look into something specialised for their system.

[Kilrah]

1 hour ago, CosmicEmotion said:

It's this abundance of choice that makes Linux so great as well and I think a lot of people oversee that.

They see it very well and that's why they don't use it. Most people don't want to make choices, and the whole point of a computer is that it's able to do about anything you want, having different distros for different purposes is precisely unwanted.

 

7 minutes ago, CosmicEmotion said:

I think that people will adjust to the concept of choice the more Linux becomes more prevalent.

People who value that flexibility/choice already use linux, so i't not going to be more prevalent because of that. Quite the opposite, for it to become more prevalent there needs to be a "one size fits all" that fits even more than the more mainstream distros do today.

[CosmicEmotion]

6 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

They see it very well and that's why they don't use it. Most people don't want to make choices, and the whole point of a computer is that it's able to do about anything you want, having different distros for different purposes is precisely unwanted.

 

People who value that flexibility/choice already use linux, so i't not going to be more prevalent because of that. Quite the opposite, for it to become more prevalent there needs to be a "one size fits all" that fits even more than the more mainstream distros do today.

 

I agree that there should be a base distro but I really think the world will become more personalized in the future and stores will offer specific hardware bundled with an optimal OS for a specific use case and better user experience.

 

Having a single OS for all use cases is simply impossible. Choice is a much better way forward.

[Nayr438]

49 minutes ago, Eigenvektor said:

If an OS could simply enroll new keys during installation, it wouldn't really protect against anything.

Actually they can, however not all boards allow it and in some instances it can even prevent other hardware from functioning correctly. In the event that Microsoft keys are revoked in the process it can also brick some boards. For Secure Boot to be effective, the Bios needs to be password protected and the boot options need to be restricted. Security is already questionable on most systems anyways since it's the same key re-used for each install whether it be for Microsoft Windows or the widely accepted Microsoft Signed Bootloader Shim used by mainstream linux distros.

 

In a proper implementation it would be generated per system and installed, however it leaves a lot of room for error throughout the entire lifecycle of the system.

[BoomerDutch]

1 hour ago, CosmicEmotion said:

I recently had overheating issues on Linux and thus booted into Windows when trying to play any games. Until that also didn't work anymore. Having Turbo and Ultimate Profiles on for CPU and GPU in Armoury Crate apparently wasn't enough to set the fans at the proper speed (I had also taken the laptop to service and the issue still wasn't resolved) so Ii decided to look into different solutions on Linux, since it's my main OS.

 

This has nothing to do with the thermal issues I was having (asusctl resolved all of these since I can graphically set the fans to be at 100% on high temps) but as I was researching Linux distros to use I suddenly came to the realization that the diversity of the Linux ecosystem is so useful to so many people.

 

• Want something that just works? Linux Mint and BazziteOS are your best friends.
• Want something that has the latest and greatest? Arch and Arch-based is your friend.
• Want to use your new PC to the max of its capabilities? CachyOS with its v3 and v4 compiled packages for newer CPUs literally leaves any other OS (Linux or Windows) behind.
• Want something as secure as possible? Silverblue, Bazzite and MicroOS are there to have your back.
• Went something reproducible you can install easily to as many machines as possible? NixOS and BlendOS are outstanding choices.

 

Many people think that this diversity is problematic but I think people need to think outside of the box. A PC is a holistic system from hardware to software. If people went to the shop and could choose something for their use case EXACTLY then the world would be a much better place functioning much better.

 

• For example, a student PC could come with lower specs and Linux Mint preinstalled.
• A gaming PC, would have high specs and CahcyOS to make the best of its capabilities.
• A work PC, would use something like Silverblue for Security.

 

It's this abundance of choice that makes Linux so great as well and I think a lot of people oversee that.

Yes this i whole heartedly agree .

[PDifolco]

7 minutes ago, CosmicEmotion said:

 

I agree that there should be a base distro but I really think the world will become more personalized in the future and stores will offer specific hardware bundled with an optimal OS for a specific use case and better user experience.

 

Having a single OS for all use cases is simply impossible. Choice is a much better way forward.

I really think that's the problem preventing Linux to become more widespread : ppl need ONE OS and then may want to install extensions/apps/whatever you call that, for specific needs, they don't need 23 more or less specific OSes that are 95% similar

This makes me think of far left political parties, they've 95% common ideas but spend their time battling each other over the remaining 5%  

[podkall]

1 hour ago, CosmicEmotion said:

Armoury Crate apparently wasn't enough to set the fans at the proper speed

Crate is buggy by design

[Kilrah]

16 minutes ago, CosmicEmotion said:

I really think the world will become more personalized in the future

The past few decades has shown the opposite, so it'll take quite the reversal if this is to happen...

[jaslion]

Just now, Kilrah said:

The past few decades has shown the opposite, so it'll take quite the reversal if this is to happen...

Remember when getting to put our own wallpaper on an iphone was an amazing customization step forward?

 

Yeah a bunch of media devices seem to have forgotten that people like personalizing things.

 

Can't even set a wallpaper on most of the new electronics stuff you get. Hell you're lucky if you are even allowed to change a color of something.

[CosmicEmotion]

20 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

I really think that's the problem preventing Linux to become more widespread : ppl need ONE OS and then may want to install extensions/apps/whatever you call that, for specific needs, they don't need 23 more or less specific OSes that are 95% similar

This makes me think of far left political parties, they've 95% common ideas but spend their time battling each other over the remaining 5%  

 

The problem of having different package formats has been solved for quite a while now with the advent of Flatpak. The user never needs to see the internals unless they want to. It's quite simpler and more secure than old times.

[CosmicEmotion]

16 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

The past few decades has shown the opposite, so it'll take quite the reversal if this is to happen...

 

Maybe I'm just a hippie but with Linux becoming a viable platform and more and more people becoming tech literate I think in 40-50 years that where we'll be.

[PDifolco]

1 minute ago, CosmicEmotion said:

 

Maybe I'm just a hippie but with Linux becoming a viable platform and more and more people becoming tech literate I think in 40-50 years that where we'll be.

"more and more people becoming tech literate" ? Are your sure ?

That's so 90s... didn't you listen to J Huang ?  

People are becoming techidiots because tech progressed and they can afford to be ignorant now, they expect PC things to work out of the box, same as with their TV, phone, A/C ...

[podkall]

3 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

"more and more people becoming tech literate" ? Are your sure ?

That's so 90s... didn't you listen to J Huang ?  

People are becoming techidiots because tech progressed and they can afford to be ignorant now, they expect PC things to work out of the box, same as with their TV, phone, A/C ...

+ AI

[WereCat]

2 hours ago, CosmicEmotion said:

 

• Want something that just works?

Define "just works" because from my experience there is no distro where things "just work". I always have to fix some stupid stuff and almost give up in the process. The irony being that the things you think are easy to fix take hours / days to find solution to and the things you think may be impossible just sometimes take one command line

 

Obviously over time you learn to deal with these things but if you're new you often don't even know WHAT to search for to find the solution. I feel like people get hyped into Linux with

and then get frustrated and leave. Instead of going in expecting a big learning curve at the start... unless you literally just need a web browser and text editor. (even then you can run into issues).

 

And people who already know how to tread the waters a bit will also probably know what distro suits them better at this point so I don't really see much point in posts like this.

 

I agree that ARmoury Crate is bad. I always disable it in the BIOS immediately.. same for the GIGABYTE and MSI alternatives.

[CosmicEmotion]

26 minutes ago, WereCat said:

Define "just works" because from my experience there is no distro where things "just work". I always have to fix some stupid stuff and almost give up in the process. The irony being that the things you think are easy to fix take hours / days to find solution to and the things you think may be impossible just sometimes take one command line

 

Obviously over time you learn to deal with these things but if you're new you often don't even know WHAT to search for to find the solution. I feel like people get hyped into Linux with

and then get frustrated and leave. Instead of going in expecting a big learning curve at the start... unless you literally just need a web browser and text editor. (even then you can run into issues).

 

And people who already know how to tread the waters a bit will also probably know what distro suits them better at this point so I don't really see much point in posts like this.

 

I agree that ARmoury Crate is bad. I always disable it in the BIOS immediately.. same for the GIGABYTE and MSI alternatives.

Wdym?I mean you can do anything you want with it. I won't dissolve this thread into a Linux vs whatever people think Linux is thread though.

[PDifolco]

38 minutes ago, CosmicEmotion said:

Wdym?I mean you can do anything you want with it. I won't dissolve this thread into a Linux vs whatever people think Linux is thread though.

Maybe I'm dumb, but just to swap from NVidia to AMD drivers took me a couple hours under Linux (Mint), vs 5 min under Windows...

[CosmicEmotion]

26 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

Maybe I'm dumb, but just to swap from NVidia to AMD drivers took me a couple hours under Linux (Mint), vs 5 min under Windows...

The first thing you need to understand when using Linux is that all the drivers are in the kernel. Nvidia used to be the exception but these days even for Nvidia there are Vulkan drivers that can game as well. So you simply needed to uninstall the Nvidia drivers for keeping your system clean. The AMD card doesnt' need drivers. It would have worked out of the box.

 

Linux 95% of the time either works with your hardware or it doesn't.

[PDifolco]

Just now, CosmicEmotion said:

The first thing you need to understand when using Linux is that all the drivers are in the kernel. Nvidia used to be the exception but these days even for Nvidia has Vulkan drivers that can game as well. So you simply needed to uninstall the Nvidia drivers for keeping your system clean. The AMD card doesnt' need drivers. It would have worked out of the box.

 

Linux 95% of the time either works with your hardware or it doesn't.

Well the AMD card didn't offer me anything more than 640x480 until I managed to sudo apt some pak I grabbed over the dark net

Already that shows Linux isn't for the masses  

 

[CosmicEmotion]

31 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

Well the AMD card didn't offer me anything more than 640x480 until I managed to sudo apt some pak I grabbed over the dark net

Already that shows Linux isn't for the masses  

 

When did that happen and on what distro lol?