I have three microchip implants, AMA

[Zando_]

1 minute ago, Erioch said:

Cyberpunk stories ALWAYS end badly.

Not (usually) due to the implants. The cool tech itself isn't what makes cyberpunk settings suck to live in, it's the abuse by corporations. Implants/neon cities/flying cars are the set dressing, not the cause of the issues cyberpunk critiques. 

2 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

I enrolled a generic tag for my girlfriend to access my car. Could be a card or ring form factor as well.

I use these at work. Have a card in my phone case (as it's flat so it fits) so I can just use my phone - which I carry everywhere anyways - to get in to work, instead of having to have another thing dangling off my keychain. I ride a motorcycle most days so I have 2 sets of keys (bike + truck) and when on the bike the keys are just dangling out in the weather due to where the ignition switch is, so I'd prefer to not have a bunch of important stuff hanging off of them. If you have a lot more RFID/NFC stuff than just a door or two at work, I see the reasoning behind getting implants. 

 

I don't have much else to ask/add other than it seems pretty cool, and I'm sorry folks are overreacting to a small, barely invasive and easily reversible procedure. 

[PacketAuditor]

10 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

Not (usually) due to the implants. The cool tech itself isn't what makes cyberpunk settings suck to live in, it's the abuse by corporations. Implants/neon cities/flying cars are the set dressing, not the cause of the issues cyberpunk critiques. 

100%

 

10 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

If you have a lot more RFID/NFC stuff than just a door or two at work, I see the reasoning behind getting implants. 

Absolutely, especially if they can replace all physical keys like in my case. I also use them for my workplace.

 

10 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

I don't have much else to ask/add other than it seems pretty cool, and I'm sorry folks are overreacting to a small, barely invasive and easily reversible procedure. 

I like to think so too. And it's alright, I am used to it. Skepticism for this stuff is pretty natural, but when it's unfounded, or they're purposfully perpetuating myths/FUD or refuse to listen then it's a little disheartening (not that anyone is doing that here). And yeah, pretty basic, quick, and reversable procedure. Not to mention it's nothing new at all, we've been using implantable technology on humans and animals for ages.

I really think it would be awesome if LTT brought someone in with implants to do a video. Amal Graafstra, the founder of the biggest non-medical implant company (Dangerous Things) would be awesome and I'm sure he'd be willing. LTT has a huge audience of tech nerds that would probably have some portion of interested viewers at least. I know Linus was talking about implants on a recent WAN show, he did perpetuate a couple minor common misconceptions IIRC so it would be cool to have an expert on. I'm sure they could think of some Cyberpunk jokes to squeeze in too...
@LinusTech@Slick 

[Lunar River]

1 hour ago, PacketAuditor said:

1 hour ago, Erioch said:

 

Not sure what this means, is this a reference to the game lol.

Did you not play the game? I would say it ended pretty badly for...most people with any story relevance.

[Caroline]

1 hour ago, PacketAuditor said:

6th Sense:
Soon I am getting a magnet in my fingertip which will effectively be a 6th sense. I can sense live wires with AC current running through them, feel power supplies, microwaves, EV chargers, air fryers, motors, tell between types of metals

I dunno I can do that without a magic finger or whatever that's called.

But my ability is like The Bionic Woman, basically acute hearing I can feel if power supplies work too, but that's because my country does not have an earthed electrical system so it's basically me acting as a resistor, it works tho.

 

1 hour ago, PacketAuditor said:

Come on bruh it's Cyberpunk, my hand glows!

Yeah, the bad part of Cyberpunk tho, the one where billion dollar corporations have access to live data on your body and everything you do. The same principle applies to smartphones, health systems and bank accounts/cards so it's not like I'm demonising pill shaped chips inside hands here. Also: Google, ew.

I wanted the purple and lime green neons in buildings.

 

I like tech, but only when I'm in control. A computer being a big dumb box with a bunch of cables coming out of its back is enough for me.

 

Emphasis in for me

[PacketAuditor]

15 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Yeah, the bad part of Cyberpunk tho, the one where billion dollar corporations have access to live data on your body and everything you do. The same principle applies to smartphones, health systems and bank accounts/cards so it's not like I'm demonising pill shaped chips inside hands here.

Luckily these devices don't connect to the internet directly, have a range beyond a few centimeters, or need to run proprietary software.

 

15 minutes ago, Caroline said:

I like tech, but only when I'm in control. A computer being a big dumb box with a bunch of cables coming out of its back is enough for me.

You'll be glad to know you can control exactly what runs and is stored on these devices (NTAG/T5577/NXP P71).

And like I said in the OP, it's not for everyone.

 

15 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Also: Google, ew.

Fine, use it to authenticate with your self hosted Nextcloud instance or whatever you prefer.

I use it to authenticate with Proxmox.

[Needfuldoer]

5 hours ago, PacketAuditor said:

These narrow flex style impalnts are installed via a 4 gauge/5mm needle, or scalpel.

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

[Lunar River]

55 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

what? you dont what a needle shoved into your hand that has a larger diameter than the nails that hold the frame of your house together?

[Beerzerker]

1 hour ago, Needfuldoer said:

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

Same here man - I don't care for any of it myself.

 

[PacketAuditor]

1 hour ago, Needfuldoer said:

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

 

34 minutes ago, Lunar River said:

what? you dont what a needle shoved into your hand that has a larger diameter than the nails that hold the frame of your house together?

 

5 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Same here man - I don't care for any of it myself.

To be fair, a lot of the applications can be had from the 3mm injector glass form factor devices. That's like two tooth picks diameter. It really just feels like you got pinched, even the 5mm diameter needle feels like you got pinched hard IMO. Quite similar to an ear piercing all things considered.

[Godlygamer23]

3 hours ago, Zando_ said:

Not (usually) due to the implants. The cool tech itself isn't what makes cyberpunk settings suck to live in, it's the abuse by corporations. Implants/neon cities/flying cars are the set dressing, not the cause of the issues cyberpunk critiques. 

In the game, you can hack others that have implants. That's a pretty major flaw in all this, and the more integrated we become with technology, the worse it's going to get. Cyberpunk certainly takes it to a more advanced level with implants, but at this point, it's not an "if", but a "when". The integration with technology physically with our bodies is literally already happening, and we're basically going to get to a point where we're cyborgs. Heck, humans might even be fully replaced with machines...That is, humans will become more and more machine-like, until the idea of a "human" is no longer relevant, except as a consideration as a relic.

 

Seriously, I think we're gonna get to a point where a physical piece of paper is going to be more secure than data on a server. If nothing else, our lives are certainly more complex with technology, and we have more to worry about. Implanting the technology into one's body makes things more convenient, just like with more conventional technology, until the convenience runs out. Then you're potentially totally screwed - even more so with technology literally in your body.

[PacketAuditor]

26 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

In the game, you can hack others that have implants. That's a pretty major flaw in all this, and the more integrated we become with technology, the worse it's going to get. Cyberpunk certainly takes it to a more advanced level with implants, but at this point, it's not an "if", but a "when". The integration with technology physically with our bodies is literally already happening, and we're basically going to get to a point where we're cyborgs. Heck, humans might even be fully replaced with machines...That is, humans will become more and more machine-like, until the idea of a "human" is no longer relevant, except as a consideration as a relic.

 

Seriously, I think we're gonna get to a point where a physical piece of paper is going to be more secure than data on a server. If nothing else, our lives are certainly more complex with technology, and we have more to worry about. Implanting the technology into one's body makes things more convenient, just like with more conventional technology, until the convenience runs out. Then you're potentially totally screwed - even more so with technology literally in your body.

I think portrayals of cyberpunk fiction are at worst exaggerated, and at best serve as cautionary tales for the future. Don't get me wrong, they are valid concerns, but I think it's important to recognize that the biohacking community is not oblivious to these risks. Devices with government enforcement, surveillance risk, or privacy concerns aren't going to catch us by surprise. Self custody and body autonomy are major parts of the biohacking movement; with this technology my identity isn't a phone number, a smartphone, and doesn't exist in some data center, it exists in open source applets in my body.

 

A lot of these concerns lie with legislation and consumer education. I do think there is room for discussion about future technology that isn't as as relevant to today's relatively 'dumb' devices. Caution is wise, but fear and uncertainty that is partially or entirely unfounded might be a little unproductive in my opinion (not saying you are spreading FUD, I've just talked to a lot of people). There is a metric shitload of nuance with this stuff, and the straight up sci-fi tier FUD like being 'tracked' does not help the conversation.

[Godlygamer23]

8 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

I think portrayals of cyberpunk fiction are at worst exaggerated, and at best serve as cautionary tales for the future. Don't get me wrong, they are valid concerns, but I think it's important to recognize that the biohacking community is not oblivious to these risks. Devices with government enforcement, surveillance risk, or privacy concerns aren't going to catch us by surprise. Self custody and body autonomy are major parts of the biohacking movement; with this technology my identity isn't a phone number, a smartphone, and doesn't exist in some data center, it exists in open source applets in my body.

 

A lot of these concerns lie with legislation and consumer education.

The fundamental problem is that this is literally stuck in your body. You cannot get away from it unless you physically remove it from your body. Even if Cyberpunk and any derivatives are exaggerated, that just means they will still happen on a lesser scale. Even that lesser scale means I am not interested in any part of that, and in my opinion, no one else should be either. It's just another device to have to keep secure and go obsolete, and now it's more difficult and expensive to replace, and risky, since it's now part of your body. 

 

On the note of physical paper potentially being more secure eventually, same goes with lock-and-key. People will be so used to smart homes that the core idea of using lock-and-key will be so foreign to the vast majority of people that it may actually be more secure simply by way of obscurity, versus using smart locks.

[Alex Atkin UK]

7 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

The fundamental problem is that this is literally stuck in your body. You cannot get away from it unless you physically remove it from your body. Even if Cyberpunk and any derivatives are exaggerated, that just means they will still happen on a lesser scale. Even that lesser scale means I am not interested in any part of that, and in my opinion, no one else should be either. It's just another device to have to keep secure and go obsolete, and now it's more difficult and expensive to replace, and risky, since it's now part of your body. 

 

On the note of physical paper being more secure eventually, same goes with lock-and-key. People will be so used to smart homes that the core idea of using lock-and-key will be so foreign to the vast majority of people that it may actually be more secure simply by way of obscurity, versus using smart locks.

Agreed, it may actually be safer right now due to few people doing it but once its becomes the default then simple muggings no longer exist and instead are more likely to turn into a homicide.

 

Plus the idea of someone needing to "know where it is", let's be realistic - people will put it in their hand because where else is convenient for use?  You're not going to want to use your butt or foot to open the front door.   So if there is doubt of where in your hand it will be, I guess a mugger will have to take the whole hand, lovely.  I think I'd rather they take my wallet thanks.

 

Though that still leaves the worry that if most people have it, any mugger will assume you do too, so you can't escape this horrific future.  Even if you put it somewhere else, you'd be subject to this problem.

[Erioch]

16 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

I think portrayals of cyberpunk fiction are at worst exaggerated

What are the portrayals of cyberpunk fact?

[Poinkachu]

10 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Agreed, it may actually be safer right now due to few people doing it but once its becomes the default then simple muggings no longer exist and instead are more likely to turn into a homicide.

And when something becomes prevalent enough, most often than not there will be people (criminals) making stuffs to mess with it too.

Either just to mess people up for giggles, or to steal

[PacketAuditor]

24 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

The fundamental problem is that this is literally stuck in your body. You cannot get away from it unless you physically remove it from your body.

I'm not sure I can think of a scenario where you need to get away from an implant urgently.

 

24 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Even if Cyberpunk and any derivatives are exaggerated, that just means they will still happen on a lesser scale. Even that lesser scale means I am not interested in any part of that, and in my opinion, no one else should be either.

What will happen?

 

24 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

It's just another device to have to keep secure and go obsolete, and now it's more difficult and expensive to replace, and risky, since it's now part of your body. 

A much easier one to keep secure than your phone, wallet, or keys. I've already touched on obsolescence a few times in this thread; but in short, the protocols and technologies in implantables don't have the same life cycle as a smartphone or something, and half the time you control the device being interacted with.

 

And it's really not difficult, expensive, or risky to install or remove these implants, that's just misinformation.

 

17 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

once its becomes the default then simple muggings no longer exist and instead are more likely to turn into a homicide.

I think this is reaching a bit far. "Simple" muggings today are often for cash or phones to flip for cash. An already implanted encrypted device isn't exactly easy to flip for cash. If someone wanted your crypto wallet or bank account/details they can (and would have to even with an implant) already hold you at gun point and make you do anything they want, implant or not. Homicide would be useless as you need the second factor.

 

17 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Plus the idea of someone needing to "know where it is", let's be realistic - people will put it in their hand because where else is convenient for use?  You're not going to want to use your butt or foot to open the front door.   So if there is doubt of where in your hand it will be, I guess a mugger will have to take the whole hand, lovely.  I think I'd rather they take my wallet thanks.

This has been said many times. Again, if someone is going to cut your hand off you are a high level government figure or billionaire and have a very different security stack. But if someone is willing to amputate your hand, they will probably just make you unlock/decrypt anything at gunpoint rather than go through the effort of removing it from you, then having to demand a second factor anyway. Anything warranting actual security will always have a secondary password or PIN in addition to presenting the implant.

 

7 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

And when something becomes prevalent enough, most often than not there will be people (criminals) making stuffs to mess with it too.

Either just to mess people up for giggles, or to steal

I don't worry about being a pickpocketing victim. I don't see why touching my hand with a reader for a few seconds with no chance of getting anything out of it would be any different. And once again, all my accounts using the implant need a secondary PIN.

[Alex Atkin UK]

9 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

And when something becomes prevalent enough, most often than not there will be people (criminals) making stuffs to mess with it too.

Either just to mess people up for giggles, or to steal

Sure will be fun having to wear NFC blocking gloves everywhere, and that just broadcasts to everyone you HAVE the implant too.  Plus then where is the convenience as you have to remove the gloves to use it, potentially more time consuming than grabbing a card out of your wallet.

 

I actually used my smart watch to make payments for a while, it took much longer than using my card and had a much higher rate of the readers failing to detect it.

[Poinkachu]

6 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

I don't worry about being a pickpocketing victim.

Me too

Eventhough I live in a country where cash payment still own at least 50% of the market.

[PacketAuditor]

2 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Sure will be fun having to wear NFC blocking gloves everywhere, and that just broadcasts to everyone you HAVE the implant too.

Read my other response, this is entirely unnecessary. Covert scanning is not a valid attack vector whatsoever. This is just FUD.

[Godlygamer23]

5 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

I'm not sure I can think of a scenario where you need to get away from an implant urgently.

We're at the beginning of implants my dude. The sky's the limit. Right now, they don't interface with your body, but they very well get to that point. People, and corporations, will want more.

5 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

What will happen?

Not an expert here. It depends on how far we go with implants. No matter how companies state how secure they are, there will always be vulnerabilities present, and people wanting to take advantage of them.

7 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

A much easier one to keep secure than your phone, wallet, or keys. I've already touched on obsolescence a few times in this thread; but in short, the protocols and technologies in implantables don't have the same life cycle as a smartphone or something, and half the time you control the device being interacted with.

 

And it's really not difficult, expensive, or risky to install or remove these implants, that's just misinformation.

The major flaw is it's in your body. And that's just in the beginning. Once they become widespread(they will), companies will figure out how to make things more complicated for wearers. Even with government regulations in place, companies will try to circumvent them, creating additional complications. 

 

Any time you open up your body, you create a risk of infection - that's objective reality. The more you do it, the riskier it gets. If material is incompatible with a person's body, it might get rejected and cause a host of complications - complications that can be avoided by simply not using an implantable device.

[Erioch]

IMO, it's a cool idea but not for me.  I'm glad it works for you.  And, honestly, you shouldn't need to be trying to convince us it's a good idea.  Unless you're selling it...

[PacketAuditor]

11 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

We're at the beginning of implants my dude. The sky's the limit. Right now, they don't interface with your body, but they very well get to that point. People, and corporations, will want more.

11 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Not an expert here. It depends on how far we go with implants. No matter how companies state how secure they are, there will always be vulnerabilities present, and people wanting to take advantage of them.

11 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

The major flaw is it's in your body. And that's just in the beginning. Once they become widespread(they will), companies will figure out how to make things more complicated for wearers. Even with government regulations in place, companies will try to circumvent them, creating additional complications. 

Okay, then vote accordingly and don't install questionable devices? You can choose what you implant, choose open source or low tech chips then. I don't see a reason to apply this logic to the products on the market today where these are not concerns at all.

 

11 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Any time you open up your body, you create a risk of infection - that's objective reality. The more you do it, the riskier it gets. If material is incompatible with a person's body, it might get rejected and cause a host of complications - complications that can be avoided by simply not using an implantable device.

Yes, but actually each time you do it, it carries the same exact risk. People take that risk willingly with piercings all the time, or unwillingly when they get a cut. And again I want to emphasize that from the beginning I have stated this technology isn't for everyone; if you aren't comfortable with the risks, so be it.

 

There is no human who is incompatible with glass or grade 2 pure elemental titanium. Generally rejection happens (rarely) because someone tried to put something too large in a fingertip, or place a device in a non recommended spot.

[PacketAuditor]

4 minutes ago, Erioch said:

IMO, it's a cool idea but not for me.  I'm glad it works for you.  And, honestly, you shouldn't need to be trying to convince us it's a good idea.  Unless you're selling it...

Totally respect that. And no, I'm not trying to convince anyone, just responding to concerns and criticism. I've been clear the whole time and in the original post that it isn't for everyone. But I do think a lot more people would be interested if the applications, risks, and concerns were more clear.

And no, definitely not selling it. I would love to work in the space, but I am a sysadmin in a much more boring industry.

[da na]

1 hour ago, PacketAuditor said:

To be fair, a lot of the applications can be had from the 3mm injector glass form factor devices. That's like two tooth picks diameter. It really just feels like you got pinched, even the 5mm diameter needle feels like you got pinched hard IMO. Quite similar to an ear piercing all things considered.

So theoretically if I wanted to unlock my door with an NFC-enabled septum piercing...

[PacketAuditor]

1 minute ago, da na said:

So theoretically if I wanted to unlock my door with an NFC-enabled septum piercing...

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible with some custom hardware

People would wonder why you kiss your door though...