APUs anyone? Ryzen 8000G Zen 4 APUs to launch January 31st with the 8700G competing with the desktop GTX 1650 in games

[filpo]

Summary

Earlier today AMD introduced their 8000G Zen 4 APUs with many performance metrics and claims such as 'Up to 4X faster than Intel Desktop solution' at competitive price points

 

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AMD Ryzen 8000G "Hawk Point" APU Lineup and Specifications

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The AMD Ryzen 7 8700G is the top Hawk Point APU, featuring 8 cores, 16 threads, 16 MB of L3, and 8 MB of L2 cache. This chip has a base clock of 4.2 GHz and a boost clock of 5.1 GHz and has a TDP of 65W. The chip features the Radeon 780M iGPU with 12 compute units clocked at 2900 MHz, the fastest clock yet on an RDNA 3 integrated graphics chip. 

 

Moving on, we have the AMD Ryzen 5 8600G which is a 6-core and 12-thread APU with 16 MB of L3 and 6 MB of L2 cache. This chip has a base clock of 4.3 GHz and a boost clock of 5.0 GHz with the same 65W TDP. The GPU is a Radeon 760M iGPU with 8 compute units clocked at 2800 MHz. 

Official specs with comparison to old 'G' CPUs

 

Gaming performance claims 

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Coming to the most significant aspect of these chips, the gaming performance, AMD is touting a 4x uplift versus the Intel iGPU solutions offered on its UHD 770 graphics chips featured in 14th/13th Gen Desktop CPUs. According to the performance metrics published by AMD, the Ryzen 8000G line offers budget gamers the ability to enjoy 1080p @ 60 FPS gaming across a range of AAA titles with the use of Adrenaline features such as HYPR-RX and Fluid Motion.

 

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An interesting comparison made by AMD is a system-to-system comparison that compares an Intel Core i3-13400F + GTX 1650 build with a Ryzen 7 8700G + iGPU build. The Ryzen 8000G "Hawk Point" APU offers similar and up to 31% better performance without the need to pair it with a discrete graphics card at a lower price ($329 AMD vs $410 Intel). Even in productivity benchmarks, the AMD Ryzen 8700G simply crushes the Core i5-13400F with up to 4.6x better performance in multi-thread workloads.

And even when paired with a discrete graphics card, the AMD Zen 4 core architecture delivers a respectable performance versus the previous generation of chips. You can easily get over 100 FPS across a range of titles as AMD showcases in its demonstration where a Ryzen 7 8700G is running alongside a Radeon RX 7900 XTX graphics card. The 8 Zen 4 cores will be good enough to ensure minimal CPU-bound scenarios at lower resolutions such as 1080p which is still widely popular in the gaming space.

 

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In eSports titles, these APUs can deliver over 100 average FPS at 1080p (low settings) without the need to buy a separate graphics card.

 

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In practical terms, the Ryzen 8600G is expected to outperform the i7-14700K by a factor ranging from 1.0 times to 3.4 times in 1080p low-detail gaming. The 8700G is also expected to deliver superior performance, with estimates ranging from 1.1 to 4.0 times higher than the i7-14700K.

Productivity claim

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Even in productivity benchmarks, the AMD Ryzen 8700G simply crushes the Core i5-13400F with up to 4.6x better performance in multi-thread workloads.

AI description (if you care)

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Formally designated as AMD's initial processors for the AM5 socket, the Ryzen 8000G series comes equipped with a built-in XDNA1 Ryzen Al accelerator. This claim is applicable to the 8-core Ryzen 7 8700G and 6-core Ryzen 5 8600G models, as they exclusively utilize the larger silicon. In contrast, the 6-core 8500G and 4-core 8300G employ a smaller Phoenix die, omitting the Ryzen Al processor from their configuration. The latter also come with Zen4c cores and 8300G will not be available as DIY part, only through OEMs and system integrators.

 

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New 8000G availability and overview of specs

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The AMD Ryzen 8000G "Hawk Point" APUs including the Ryzen 7 8700G, Ryzen 5 8600G, and Ryzen 5 8500G will be available starting the 31st of January. Systems equipped with the Ryzen 3 8300G are also going to start appearing around the same time. As for users upgrading to the new chips, motherboard makers will be releasing new BIOS which comes with full support for these chips.

 

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PRICING (the juicy bit)

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AMD confirms Ryzen 7 8700G will retail at $329, Ryzen 5 8600G will cost $229 and Ryzen 5 8500G will be a $179 desktop APU. The 8300G is not launching through the DIY market; hence it has no official pricing.

 

My thoughts

Great to see that AMD are now focusing back to APUs for at least the new 8000 series (with their last big desktop APU that could perform decently in games being the 5700G). I also like to see that they're providing options for the lower end market, such as the 8300G, though I do understand why they didn't want to sell it for the DIY market since I don't believe many people would've bought it to build themselves when the 8500G is $180 and has 6 cores instead of 4. The 8300G would have had to be sold at somewhere around $130 at most for it to make sense (due to less cache and cores). Overall, from my point of view, I think this all looks quite promising from AMD.

 

Sources

AMD Ryzen 8000G Zen4 APU series launch January 31, Ryzen 7 8700G competes with desktop GeForce GTX 1650 in gaming - VideoCardz.com

AMD Ryzen 8000G "Hawk Point" Desktop APUs Launched: Zen 4 CPU Combined With RDNA 3 GPU, 8700G $329, 8600G $229, 8500G $179 (wccftech.com)

[jaslion]

That 8600g has my eye as if it performs well it can be a neat lil energy efficient game system for older titles and run them really really well. Whilst also being a very very simplr system

[filpo]

3 minutes ago, jaslion said:

That 8600g has my eye as if it performs well it can be a neat lil energy efficient game system for older titles and run them really really well. Whilst also being a very very simplr system

it is also quite cheap compared to the 8700G but still has better graphics than the 8500G (which has half the compute units)

[Helpful Tech Witch]

8 minutes ago, filpo said:

I also like to see that they're providing options for the lower end market, such as the 8300G, though I do understand why they didn't want to sell it for the DIY market since I don't believe many people would've bought it to build themselves when the 8500G is $180 and has 6 cores instead of 4.

AMD has no DIY low end options right now, and its not a path that i agree with. Low end DIY parts rarely were the most price effective, but saving 60$ on a cpu can help a lot of people

[filpo]

Just now, Helpful Tech Witch said:

AMD has no DIY low end options right now, and its not a path that i agree with. Low end DIY parts rarely were the most price effective, but saving 60$ on a cpu can help a lot of people

5000 series didn't have any ryzen 3's did they? So the cheapest option to get there is the 5500 which is still $100. It's not a bad cpu but for budget builders it's not exactly 'cheap'

 

1 minute ago, Helpful Tech Witch said:

but saving 60$ on a cpu can help a lot of people

Are they still making the 3000G? I see it still on the market so it must mean they still have stock and that people are buying it. And possibly even still making it (though I doubt it)

[Helpful Tech Witch]

3 minutes ago, filpo said:

5000 series didn't have any ryzen 3's did they? So the cheapest option to get there is the 5500 which is still $100. It's not a bad cpu but for budget builders it's not exactly 'cheap'

 

thats.. my point

amd is ignoring low end. 
the 5500 launched at 160$us, which is not really budget, compared to say.. the 3400g for 150 which has an igpu. or a 3200g for 99$
The athlong 3000g launched for 50$ and has since *gone up* to 80$ for an in box cpu and is only 50$ if you get a tray chip.

[porina]

I was hoping the 8500G would be an interesting low cost APU to play with, but it is too close in price to the 8600G given how much it is cut down.

[jaslion]

3 hours ago, filpo said:

5000 series didn't have any ryzen 3's did they? So the cheapest option to get there is the 5500 which is still $100. It's not a bad cpu but for budget builders it's not exactly 'cheap'

They sorta do the 5300g is a 70$ cpu

 

 

[porina]

Model	C	c	Base	Boost C	Boost c	L3 Cache	TDP	GPU gen	GPU cores	GPU clk	MSRP	Ram	PCIe	User	AI	OC	Node
			GHz	GHz	GHz	MB	W			MHz	US$	MT/s	gen	lanes	NPU		TSMC
8700G	8	0	4.2	5.1		16	65	RDNA3	12	2900	329	5200	4	16	Y	Y	4nm
8600G	6	0	4.3	5		16	65	RDNA3	8	2800	229	5200	4	16	Y	Y	4nm
8500G	2	4	3.5	5	3.7	16	65	RDNA3	4	2800	179	5200	4	10	N	N?	4nm
8300G	1	3	3.4	4.9	3.6	8	65	RDNA3	4	2600	OEM only	5200	4	10	N	N?	4nm
7700X	8	0	4.5	5.4		32	105	RDNA2	2	2200	399	5200	5	24	N	Y	5nm
7700	8	0	3.6	5.3		32	65	RDNA2	2	2200	329	5200	5	24	N	Y	5nm
7600X	6	0	4.7	5.3		32	105	RDNA2	2	2200	299	5200	5	24	N	Y	5nm
7600	6	0	3.8	5.1		32	65	RDNA2	2	2200	229	5200	5	24	N	Y	5nm

I had to make this table to summarise some key numbers comparing it against similar Raphael models.

 

Key changes vs existing desktop offerings:

Move from RDNA2 to RDNA3

Move from TSMC 5nm to 4nm

Support for PCIe gen 4 only.

Smaller L3 cache (they did this in previous gens so not surprising)

Top two models have the new AI NPU.

The lower two models don't say OC support on AMD's website.

 

 

Probably a typo on AMD's part, their web page for 8500G currently says it is single channel memory whereas everything else is dual.

 

I haven't seen yet how many PCIe lanes they support as this is an area they have cut in the past too. Now edited in.

[Ydfhlx]

On 1/8/2024 at 5:45 PM, porina said:

I was hoping the 8500G would be an interesting low cost APU to play with, but it is too close in price to the 8600G given how much it is cut down.

In terms of iGPU, yes it was cut down pretty heavily. But, I'm interested about CPU performance. It's $50 (or 23%) less than 7600. If it's any decent, this would lower the entry barrier into AM5. Remember, you don't need 7600 if you're building a low / lower mid end PC not focused on competitive gaming. So might as well save some money.

 

For comparison, 5600G is 14% slower than 5600x. This has higher clocks on main cores (both directly and compared to _600 CPU), and support for DDR5 (more important with smaller cache). It also however has those small cores. It obviously depends on how they perform.

 

Also forget everything I said. 8500G doesn't have AI, so not worth buying.

 

Edit: But seriously, forget what I said. AMD's website say it has only 10 PCIe lanes (+ 4 to the chipset). That's probably 8x for dGPU (which is not that bad) but only 2x for the drives! Considering many B650 boards have 2x M.2 slots wired directly to the CPU this will either make both run at x1 or one being completely unusable!

[porina]

1 hour ago, Ydfhlx said:

In terms of iGPU, yes it was cut down pretty heavily. But, I'm interested about CPU performance. It's $50 (or 23%) less than 7600. If it's any decent, this would lower the entry barrier into AM5. Remember, you don't need 7600 if you're building a low / lower mid end PC not focused on competitive gaming. So might as well save some money.

I wanted one when I first saw it in the leaks, because it could offer some interesting testing:

How do C vs c cores scale in power/perf.

What is the maximum clock of C and c cores when overclocked?

The GPU was less interesting but there too.

 

The pricing and the lack of stated OC capability pretty much kills it for my personal use. Older PCIe gen, fewer lanes both don't help.

 

If we assume a workload allows the 8600G and 8500G to reach their maximum boost clocks (unlikely for all core, but it's all we have), the 8500G would be about 17% slower in CPU assuming a perfectly scaling workload like older Cinebench.

 

1 hour ago, Ydfhlx said:

It also however has those small cores. It obviously depends on how they perform.

Looking at clocks alone the stated max boost of a c core is 26% lower than a C core. The APUs also have smaller L3 cache which wont help.

 

1 hour ago, Ydfhlx said:

Edit: But seriously, forget what I said. AMD's website say it has only 10 PCIe lanes (+ 4 to the chipset). That's probably 8x for dGPU (which is not that bad) but only 2x for the drives! Considering many B650 boards have 2x M.2 slots wired directly to the CPU this will either make both run at x1 or one being completely unusable!

That's were it was hiding. I didn't see the "see full specifications" link. I'll edit my table soon.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, Ydfhlx said:

Edit: But seriously, forget what I said. AMD's website say it has only 10 PCIe lanes (+ 4 to the chipset). That's probably 8x for dGPU (which is not that bad) but only 2x for the drives! Considering many B650 boards have 2x M.2 slots wired directly to the CPU this will either make both run at x1 or one being completely unusable!

One or both will likely be off the chipset, for M.2. There will probably be OEM boards that only have x8 slot to use the lanes in other places too.

 

10 lanes is pretty crap tbh though.

[AndreiArgeanu]

It's crazy to me that AMD released 5000 series CPUs as well at the event. It's not much but it's still crazy. 7 years later and we still technically have new CPUs released for AM4. I don't think there's ever been a platform in history that has gotten such good support.

 

I'm glad to see though that AMD is finally stepping up their game on the iGPUs. Still not close to the kind of APU one might find in the consoles but at least we're getting closer to that. It's a shame that the best performing iGPU is only available to the highest end chip though. I think a 8600G or even a lower end chip paired with the 780M graphics would make for a great value proposition for low cost builds.

[dogwitch]

On 1/13/2024 at 6:45 PM, AndreiArgeanu said:

It's crazy to me that AMD released 5000 series CPUs as well at the event. It's not much but it's still crazy. 7 years later and we still technically have new CPUs released for AM4. I don't think there's ever been a platform in history that has gotten such good support.

 

I'm glad to see though that AMD is finally stepping up their game on the iGPUs. Still not close to the kind of APU one might find in the consoles but at least we're getting closer to that. It's a shame that the best performing iGPU is only available to the highest end chip though. I think a 8600G or even a lower end chip paired with the 780M graphics would make for a great value proposition for low cost builds.

the twin Voyager probes

are the longest running and(code still be wrote today)

bit old but has good info

https://www.cpushack.com/space-craft-cpu.html

[Ydfhlx]

On 1/10/2024 at 8:17 AM, Ydfhlx said:

Edit: But seriously, forget what I said. AMD's website say it has only 10 PCIe lanes (+ 4 to the chipset). That's probably 8x for dGPU (which is not that bad) but only 2x for the drives! Considering many B650 boards have 2x M.2 slots wired directly to the CPU this will either make both run at x1 or one being completely unusable!

Holy sh*t it's even worse. According to latest WAN show, it's x4 for main drive, x2 for secondary drive (which are both *fine*, since it's PCIe 4.0).

 

...but only x4 for the GPU! That's absolutely horrible. There is a good reason GPU makers cut down PCIe lanes to x8, but almost never to x4. That's equivalent to running a GPU in 3.0 x8. That was maybe fine in a low end GPU with Ryzen 5500 or 5600G (that CPUs were limited to 3.0, low end GPUs to x8). But it already was on the edge of being fine and generally wasn't advised. And remember, bandwidth requirements generally go up, not down.

 

To launch a new CPU like that in 2024 is unacceptable. Especially when they're marketing it for gamers. Maybe would be acceptable if it was called a Ryzen 3 8300UG (and the other one 8200UG). But not when AMD positions it next to 8600G.

 

So glad I got 5600 instead of waiting for this crap.

[filpo]

Reviews are in for the 8000G series are in! (will update with more once they're released)

TLDR: 8700G is more than 2x faster than the 5700G and performs better with 6400 ram instead of 6000

AMD Ryzen 7 8700G review | PC Gamer

AMD Ryzen 7 8700G and Ryzen 5 8600G Review: Zen 4 APUs with RDNA3 Graphics (anandtech.com)

AMD Ryzen 7 8700G and Ryzen 5 8600G review: integrated graphics for the win | Eurogamer.net

AMD Ryzen 7 8700G review: The best choice for budget PC gaming | Windows Central

Linux: AMD Ryzen 7 8700G Linux Performance Review - Phoronix

 

Source: AMD Ryzen 8000G Desktop APU Review Roundup | VideoCardz.com

Edited January 30 by filpo

[Tan3l6]

Yea, it's good. Almost twice the speed of previous iGPUs.

[porina]

Trying to get a feel for where it sits relative to dGPUs. Unfortunately much of the testing as presented is either APU vs iGPU, or APU+dGPU as a CPU test. The two I saw seems to suggest it comes in well below a 6500XT, and a bit behind 3050 Laptop version. It is an impressive amount of performance for an APU, but still very much on the very low end of PC gaming.