Grey Market Community Standards

[Arika]

11 hours ago, randy123 said:

Yes, RP servers are brutal for accusations of child abuse.

10 hours ago, randy123 said:

I'm not letting my business be controlled by Bill gates and his abuse of the American people 

9 hours ago, randy123 said:

I've personally done hundreds of key activations with Kinguin keys and never had any issues.

My businesses have done tens of thousands

8 hours ago, randy123 said:

What my businesses do are protected by the Free Market (God bless it) of my states legislature, I am not in a communist state like California that is controlled by Big Tech

8 hours ago, randy123 said:

I even know a few local politicians so I'm well in hand.

Holy christ

 

[Avocado Diaboli]

9 hours ago, manikyath said:

none of this has to do with state law, this has to do with EULA's and moral choices...

But don't you see, in a glorious free market economy, if Microsoft doesn't properly protect their property and business interests, it's totally permitted to act against them in any way imaginable. If you don't protect your property, then I'm totally in the right for just buying stuff from someone who says it fell off the back of a truck. Everything else would be communism, and we can't have that. /s

[NF-A12x25]

On 10/22/2023 at 6:17 PM, randy123 said:

I am not in a communist state like California that is controlled by Big Tech.

i wish california was communist…

 

That said, holy shit dude lay off the day drinking your liver will thank you

[Poinkachu]

On 10/23/2023 at 12:49 AM, randy123 said:

I buy accounts off of g2g almost every week for the purpose of reusing them to play on servers I'm falsely banned from off of garrys mod

I somehow doubt it.

1-2 times, might be falsely banned

Every week.... oh boy, either you didn't learn anything or they are very well justified in doing it, or both.

 

On 10/23/2023 at 3:00 AM, randy123 said:

Yes, RP servers are brutal for accusations of child abuse.

Ookay...., I'm gonna maintain a good distance now

 

On 10/23/2023 at 3:49 AM, randy123 said:

it is 100% a scam if I can go on another site and buy it for 10% of the price they are selling it for.

They are exploiting people who dont know these key sites exist and big box stores like Bestbuy lie to millions of people a year saying "Oh sorry, the ONLY way to get Windows activated is pay us 100$!"

It's exploitation of the elderly

Screw the EULA. They cant stop the free market, they have no power over how customers and businesses activate their version of windows. I'm not letting my business be controlled by Bill gates and his abuse of the American people 

So, by this logic, if Lenovo sells a laptop for $300, and a thief somewhere sells the very same stolen laptop model for $30. Lenovo is scamming ? :x

 

Also, if Microsoft want to go full draconian and starts deactivating non-retail keys sold in key market sites fervently, they can.

And therefore, yes, they can stop you.

 

And also if you don't want your business be controlled by Bill Gates, use Linux. Or atleast don't update or let the Windows goes online at all.

You're still using Windows, if Microsoft wants to go full evil tomorrow and suddenly ransomware all Windows PC, you're effed.

 

On 10/23/2023 at 4:05 AM, randy123 said:

I've personally done hundreds of key activations with Kinguin keys and never had any issues.

My businesses have done tens of thousands, and as far as I've heard, I've heard no issues from the managers on the policy.

The way I take it, either your business uses tens of thousands of PCs, or your key got deactivated so often you had to keep buying a new one.

If your business does have tens of thousands of PCs, well you can just go to Microsoft and strike a deal with them no ?

 

On 10/23/2023 at 5:17 AM, randy123 said:

What my businesses do are protected by the Free Market (God bless it) of my states legislature, I am not in a communist state like California that is controlled by Big Tech. I even know a few local politicians so I'm well in hand.

Oh trust me, your politician won't do a thing about you complaining about your keys being deactivated.

I mean, it's either you or Microsoft. And pretty sure Microsoft has more money.

Crossing Microsoft might make those politicians have to learn Linux y'know ?

 

 

Also yes, Agree with @Arika.

There's so many red flags, and the flags are more red than China's flag.

[SteveGrabowski0]

Always think that's weird you can tell someone to buy a Windows key for $15 in the build threads but don't tell them to just activate Windows themselves for free. As if giving someone $15 for a key to activate Windows is any more kosher than activating a copy of it yourself. They're both piracy since neither involves you buying a Windows license.

[TylerD321]

13 minutes ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

Always think that's weird you can tell someone to buy a Windows key for $15 in the build threads but don't tell them to just activate Windows themselves for free. As if giving someone $15 for a key to activate Windows is any more kosher than activating a copy of it yourself. They're both piracy since neither involves you buying a Windows license.

Grey market isn’t piracy because you ARE buying a windows license. It is just not from an authorized retailer. That is why it is grey market and not piracy. Hence the need to ask the question on the rules of mentioning these sites as piracy is forbidden but grey market isn’t.

[SteveGrabowski0]

1 hour ago, TylerD321 said:

Grey market isn’t piracy because you ARE buying a windows license. It is just not from an authorized retailer. That is why it is grey market and not piracy. Hence the need to ask the question on the rules of mentioning these sites as piracy is forbidden but grey market isn’t.

No, you're buying a key. A key is not a license, as Microsoft has repeatedly clarified when people ask them if the keys they buy on reddit, G2A, Kinguin, etc are legit. Paying someone else for the convenience of easy activation isn't the same thing as buying a retail license with support like you'd get from Microsoft, Amazon, Best Buy, Newegg, etc. And retail license is the only way to have a legit copy of Windows on a system you build for yourself. Buying a key from reddit, Kinguin, etc is just trying to rationalize away the fact you're pirating Windows and it's dumb. 

[randy123]

On 10/25/2023 at 1:55 AM, Poinkachu said:

I somehow doubt it.

1-2 times, might be falsely banned

Every week.... oh boy, either you didn't learn anything or they are very well justified in doing it, or both.

Okay, I may be over exaggerating. It's not once a week. But over the past 2 years I've bought 40 accounts. Here is proof.

 

On 10/25/2023 at 1:55 AM, Poinkachu said:

Ookay...., I'm gonna maintain a good distance now

Why? It's proven that these gmod admins are lying. I have done nothing wrong. I am simply playing the game I enjoy

On 10/25/2023 at 1:55 AM, Poinkachu said:

So, by this logic, if Lenovo sells a laptop for $300, and a thief somewhere sells the very same stolen laptop model for $30. Lenovo is scamming ? :x

 

Also, if Microsoft want to go full draconian and starts deactivating non-retail keys sold in key market sites fervently, they can.

And therefore, yes, they can stop you.

 

And also if you don't want your business be controlled by Bill Gates, use Linux. Or atleast don't update or let the Windows goes online at all.

You're still using Windows, if Microsoft wants to go full evil tomorrow and suddenly ransomware all Windows PC, you're effed.

No, it's scamming for them to sell a digital license for 100$ when it does not cost that to produce it. 

 

Microsoft can't deactivate non-retail keys as they have no way of knowing which is which. 

Sure, they could deactivate all old keys. Lets say they deactivate all keys from before 2007. A lot of those are probably keys from thrown away computers.

But now they've deactivated tens of thousands of keys that people use, and it will cause an uproar. It won't happen. 

 

Also as much as I love Linux, no one uses it. I'm not going to make money if all the products my businesses uses and sells is Linux. 

 

On 10/25/2023 at 1:55 AM, Poinkachu said:

The way I take it, either your business uses tens of thousands of PCs, or your key got deactivated so often you had to keep buying a new one.

If your business does have tens of thousands of PCs, well you can just go to Microsoft and strike a deal with them no ?

We absolutely could get bulk licenses, I've looked into it. But it's still tens of thousands of dollars cheaper to do as we are. 

Money makes the world go round.

 

 

[LogicalDrm]

23 hours ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

No, you're buying a key. A key is not a license, as Microsoft has repeatedly clarified when people ask them if the keys they buy on reddit, G2A, Kinguin, etc are legit. Paying someone else for the convenience of easy activation isn't the same thing as buying a retail license with support like you'd get from Microsoft, Amazon, Best Buy, Newegg, etc. And retail license is the only way to have a legit copy of Windows on a system you build for yourself. Buying a key from reddit, Kinguin, etc is just trying to rationalize away the fact you're pirating Windows and it's dumb. 

While I do agree somewhat with your take, the issue is that almost all keys sold on the grey markets are legit. They come from Microsoft and someone has paid Microsoft for them. Making them legit. What isn't legit is the EULA of some of the keys, and ways they are acquired. Buying OEM key from retailer is all good, except those should be sold only to new systems. My previous license was like that, so was the Vista I had before it. Current is full price retail.

 

In EU, specifically in Germany, it has been proven in court that licenses scrapped from dead laptops and desktops can be re-sold. So if licenses are acquired that way in that region, Microsoft doesn't have legal grounds to say anything. 

 

The issue here, and why we don't draw hardline, is other similar discussions. Hackintoshes are against Apple's ToS. But discussion is allowed as LTT has done several videos on the subject. Emulating is huge grey area, and discussion on that is allowed on same ruling. So is jailbreaks on carrier locked phones. The rule is about not giving direct instructions on how to get materials that are in a way or another locked. So no links to ROMs, no links to recovery images, no links to OEM key product pages. Here, going the midway will keep most people happy, and those who aren't, are free to express their disappointment to a way or another.

[Bitter]

I've bought OEM keys from Newegg for years. Probably not technically legal in hindsight but hey they sold them. It was however a hassle to reactivate Windows when I changed a motherboard, l had to call into somewhere and get a key to unlock the key or something with a key the PC generated. 20 minutes of my life gone.

[Avaviel]

I'll buy game keys from websites sometimes when the game hasn't gone on sale in forever. (I buy around three games a year or less.)  But I also don't feel it's right to glorify those places, hearing the stories about devs getting fake emails from key sellers saying they're a reviewer.

[SimplyChunk]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:00 PM, randy123 said:

Yes, RP servers are brutal for accusations of child abuse.

My girlfriend initially said this was a "Skill issue."  I think you got some deeper issues

[Skyesgaming]

1 minute ago, ChonkerFox said:

My girlfriend initially said this was a "Skill issue."  I think you got some deeper issues

Girlfriend here. Agree on that one 

[randy123]

22 minutes ago, ChonkerFox said:

My girlfriend initially said this was a "Skill issue."  I think you got some deeper issues

 

20 minutes ago, Skyesgaming said:

Girlfriend here. Agree on that one 

Who are you quoting? 

[manikyath]

On 10/26/2023 at 7:32 PM, randy123 said:

Okay, I may be over exaggerating. It's not once a week. But over the past 2 years I've bought 40 accounts. Here is proof.

should we extrapolate this exaggeration to the amount of money you've saved on windows licenses as well then?

 

On 10/26/2023 at 7:32 PM, randy123 said:

No, it's scamming for them to sell a digital license for 100$ when it does not cost that to produce it. 

microsoft sets the value of their product. just the same way as apple sets the value of their iPhone. it doesnt cost them 1000 bucks to make the physical object. the developers that designed and programmed it, the support infrastructure, and the ecosystem have a cost / value too. look up "value based pricing", it might help your bottom line you're clearly struggling to keep in the green if you've thrown all morale out the window.

 

case in point:

On 10/26/2023 at 7:32 PM, randy123 said:

Also as much as I love Linux, no one uses it. I'm not going to make money if all the products my businesses uses and sells is Linux. 

dealing with windows makes you money. the value of selling windows devices is in the market you can reach, not in saving $90 on a key.

 

On 10/26/2023 at 7:32 PM, randy123 said:

Microsoft can't deactivate non-retail keys as they have no way of knowing which is which. 

Sure, they could deactivate all old keys. Lets say they deactivate all keys from before 2007. A lot of those are probably keys from thrown away computers.

But now they've deactivated tens of thousands of keys that people use, and it will cause an uproar. It won't happen. 

i'm pretty sure they *could* actually quite easily put a big dent in grey market keys if they bothered to try. it's something they've already done with dreamspark keys because someone at microsoft realised that giving *every* student access to approximately 20 windows server enterprise keys wasnt the greatest idea... so afaik all dreamspark keys (or the high profile ones anyways) are temporary licenses these days, that get deactivated (3 years if i'm not mistaken) after the system is activated.

 

there's a game developer that has actually done the "deactivating grey market keys" thing in the past, for them it was as easy as linking specific license keys to bounced credit card payments (because stolen card, card gets blocked before payment processes, so no money received.) and it did, in fact, cause uproar.. so they reinstated a large portion of the keys, with the express message that they're only doing the reactivation once, so next time you buy a grey market key you may be boned.

 

but.. in the case of microsoft keys bouncing... guess who's on the hook for that?

right. it's you again, because your customers will come to you with the computer they've bought from you. and if they find out that *you* sold them a shady key, that's twice the outrage on your doorstep right there.

because keep in mind.. they're not microsoft customers, they're your customers, and they will be very outraged at the person they gave their money to.

 

now.. is it gonna happen? unlikely... but is this a risk you as a business should be willing to take? holy heck no...

 

On 10/26/2023 at 7:32 PM, randy123 said:

We absolutely could get bulk licenses, I've looked into it. But it's still tens of thousands of dollars cheaper to do as we are. 

so.. let's do some math on your own numbers here... assuming a fairly aquired retail key is 100 bucks, and a grey market key is 10 bucks, and you've mentioned "hundreds of thousands of dollars" saved..

if we extrapolate that to tens of thousands of dollars saved compared to bulk licensing...

 

are you actually going grey market to save 10-30 ish bucks on a $2000-ish computer purchase? are you *actually* willing to deal with the risk over a 1% difference in margin? heck even a $500 office special we're only looking at around 5-ish% difference in cost. 

also.. i'd assume that buying keys from microsoft in bulk costs less time than hunting for fair deals on grey market pages.. have you considered the staff wage that goes into handling the grey market keys? your supposed savings could be even less than i'm calculating them to be.

On 10/26/2023 at 7:32 PM, randy123 said:

Money makes the world go round.

yes, but saying that at the end of a post regarding the morality of what could potentially even be handling stolen goods (see previous post..) makes you look like the most dense corporate rear end this forum has ever seen.. and we've seen some dense corporate rear ends here.

 

On 10/27/2023 at 12:06 AM, randy123 said:

Who are you quoting? 

is this some attempt at a misdirection, or have you actually not realised that you can see who they quoted?

[SorryBella]

7 hours ago, manikyath said:

attempt at a misdirection

No, attempt to piss someone else door because he wants to find their wrong. Im gonna guess the next line is something along sockpuppeting.

[sub68]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:52 AM, LogicalDrm said:

no taxes are paid

I had to pay more than 50 dollars iirc in taxes for a second hand camera from ebay

[LogicalDrm]

5 hours ago, sub68 said:

I had to pay more than 50 dollars iirc in taxes for a second hand camera from ebay

Again, eBay was example, so was the taxes part. I assume its sales tax from eBays volume of sales they broker (since its middleman there). But seller isn't paying anything for their profits (if they get profits, which in case of OEM OS keys they would).

[sub68]

41 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

Again, eBay was example, so was the taxes part. I assume its sales tax from eBays volume of sales they broker (since its middleman there). But seller isn't paying anything for their profits (if they get profits, which in case of OEM OS keys they would).

Ohh that.

I think all of it goes to eBay.

My lens invoice (one from the seller I bought it from) had no taxes. But maybe the seller has to do something for it but I have no idea.

[Bitter]

37 minutes ago, sub68 said:

Ohh that.

I think all of it goes to eBay.

My lens invoice (one from the seller I bought it from) had no taxes. But maybe the seller has to do something for it but I have no idea.

Possibly because eBay collects the tax, not the 'seller' since eBay is acting like a contingency shop handling the sale. Sales tax is handled on the eBay side, seller gets paid but would be responsible for any income taxes which is a whole separate thing.

[sub68]

2 hours ago, Bitter said:

Possibly because eBay collects the tax, not the 'seller' since eBay is acting like a contingency shop handling the sale. Sales tax is handled on the eBay side, seller gets paid but would be responsible for any income taxes which is a whole separate thing.

Thats what I was implying...

 

[Bitter]

1 hour ago, sub68 said:

Thats what I was implying...

 

I read your post too fast, my bad.

[sub68]

27 minutes ago, Bitter said:

I read your post too fast, my bad.

Happens to the best of us

[KageSong]

On 10/22/2023 at 12:13 AM, SansVarnic said:

Fairly simple really, if its grey market (there in itself is rather self-explanatory grey area) then it's not directly msrp sold item. You may discuss and even call by name, what you cannot do is is link a grey market site. If its not sold at msrp then it is grey and cannot be shared. Simple.

 

This is covered in the first sub-bullet point.

You realize your wording would imply one can't discuss purchasing games on sale on Humble Bundle? I probably sound pretentious, but I was basically bullied all my life about accuracy of speech, so I felt compelled to say something.

[KageSong]

On 10/22/2023 at 3:00 PM, randy123 said:

Yes, RP servers are brutal for accusations of child abuse.

 

If anything we should be supporting kinguin or g2a over regular marketplaces. Microsoft scams millions of people a year making them buy a windows key for 100$ when you can get one for 10$ anywhere else. All my businesses I've instructed my managers to ONLY buy from key sites and we have saved hundreds of thousands over the past few years

... I absolutely have a background to make such assertions, and something about your words has real fishy notes.